Grand Strategy Crusader Kings III

[vonAchdorf]

We RPG now.

Now?

The equipment system seems very similar to CK2, the difference is that you now have a paper doll to visualize it.

 

[Kem0sabe]

We RPG now.

It's been assumedly an rpg since CK2.

 

[Zariusz]

I was playing with mod Sinews Of War and i just saw that they are using some Battle Brothers peasant as an icon lol

 

[Fedora Master]

Artefacts do have some place in the game but that seems excessive. It just adds another layer of "click button, get buffs" to the game.

 

[kangaxx]

I gave up playing this after about 10 hours, saying I'd come back after they release more content. So it sounds like this hasn't happened/new content is shit?

 

[vonAchdorf]

They are still taking their pretty time with the DLC and I'm not yet convinced that it's not just adding busy work (holding court). The return of artifacts will at least allow more LARPing.

 

[Theodora]

What are the most

mods?

Assuming you mean total conversions,

• When the World Stopped Making Sense -- the migration period, starting with the last days of the WRE.
• Lux Invicta -- alt. history, where Rome pivoted towards Sol Invicta instead of Christ.
• Nova Monumenta Iaponiae Historica -- the Sengoku Judai.

I know less about them, but there's also an Elder Scrolls mod, and a Romance of the Three Kingdoms mod.

If you just mean the base game, and aside from HIP, the basics are Patrum Scuta (Ironman version) and A Bigger Interface; Improved Genetics is also nice, does what it says. There's also Nomina Vera, a cool little linguistic effort (though I've not audited it heavily).

 

[Delterius]

haven't played this but have questions

• are all muslims still pigeonholed into turkish succession instead of something that makes sense for arabs
• are there super natural events which are outright magical (ck's immortality potion questline) instead of something that can chalked up to people believing in things (joan of arc expy event does crazy things)
• is it just me or are all the religions pretty samey

 

[Theodora]

is it just me or are all the religions pretty samey

yeah, for now faiths under the new system don't really have any mechanical distinction outside the traits and minor benefits associated with each.

 

[Delterius]

is it just me or are all the religions pretty samey

yeah, for now faiths under the new system don't really have any mechanical distinction outside the traits and minor benefits associated with each.

i hear faiths are customizeable so can i make an irish pagan kingdom of druidic witchery for absolute memery

i just came out of a ck2 turkish jain merchant republic game so i'm still a bit loopy

 

[Fedora Master]

I don't recall any meme events like fighting Cthulhu. You can make a witch coven and do drugz but it's relatively down to earth.

And yes, religions and cultures are very samey because the modular nature of these things creates a kind of "one size fits all" situation.

 

[JamesDixon]

I don't recall any meme events like fighting Cthulhu. You can make a witch coven and do drugz but it's relatively down to earth.

And yes, religions and cultures are very samey because the modular nature of these things creates a kind of "one size fits all" situation.

In CK2 there were major differences in how the three types of religions were though.

 

[Theodora]

I'd be surprised if they don't add more meaningful mechanics to CK3's religions via DLC. Whatever you think of Royal Court, it's fairly involved compared to other PDX GSG expansions.

 

[Delterius]

You can make a witch coven and do drugz but it's relatively down to earth.

That's the difference really. I like absurd or seemingly supernatural events, just don't make it outright magic. Keep it Darklands tier and it's golden.

I'd be surprised if they don't add more meaningful mechanics to CK3's religions via DLC. Whatever you think of Royal Court, it's fairly involved compared to other PDX GSG expansions.

I suppose that Royal Court could be the basis for future DLC. Say, something that touches on caliphal succession and makes it more involved by engaging the court's interests in which son takes over. You can have a fourth fitna scenario with the iranian power base supporting one claimant and the traditional bagdad élites supporting another.

 

[Popiel]

Yeah, as of now it seems that Royal Court is designed to serve as a basis for further, more in-depth content. It’s a really big, fundamental redesign of many gameplay aspects when you take a closer look, it definitely can serve as a starting point for things to come. That’s why it’s in development for such a long fucking time.

 

[vonAchdorf]

I suppose that Royal Court could be the basis for future DLC. Say, something that touches on caliphal succession and makes it more involved by engaging the court's interests in which son takes over. You can have a fourth fitna scenario with the iranian power base supporting one claimant and the traditional bagdad élites supporting another.

Be the last man standing by murdering all your bothers before they murder you?

 

[Delterius]

I suppose that Royal Court could be the basis for future DLC. Say, something that touches on caliphal succession and makes it more involved by engaging the court's interests in which son takes over. You can have a fourth fitna scenario with the iranian power base supporting one claimant and the traditional bagdad élites supporting another.

Be the last man standing by murdering all your bothers before they murder you?

That's Turkish succession so no.

 

[Theodora]

That's Turkish succession so no.

Did they do that before the Ottomans though? Cus I kinda want it in game.

Yeah, as of now it seems that Royal Court is designed to serve as a basis for further, more in-depth content. It’s a really big, fundamental redesign of many gameplay aspects when you take a closer look, it definitely can serve as a starting point for things to come. That’s why it’s in development for such a long fucking time.

Exactly, even if you think it's shit and terrible and 'pozzed' or whatever else, it's still already way bigger and more elaborate than any other game expansions they've put out.

 

[Delterius]

That's Turkish succession so no.

Did they do that before the Ottomans though? Cus I kinda want it in game.

Well, there's succession wars and there's outright fratricide wacky races to the capital like the Ottomans did. FreeKaner can probably comment on that with any degree of actual knowledge so let's leave it at that.

 

[Norfleet]

Well, there's succession wars and there's outright fratricide wacky races to the capital like the Ottomans did.

That would be a hilarious mode of succession to have in the game, where your successor is determined by who gets there first.

 

[Theodora]

That would be a hilarious mode of succession to have in the game, where your successor is determined by who gets there first.

More like, the only brother to escape getting purged ends up in rebellion against you.

 

[FreeKaner]

I suppose that Royal Court could be the basis for future DLC. Say, something that touches on caliphal succession and makes it more involved by engaging the court's interests in which son takes over. You can have a fourth fitna scenario with the iranian power base supporting one claimant and the traditional bagdad élites supporting another.

Be the last man standing by murdering all your bothers before they murder you?

That is indeed Turkish succession. As well as the open succession that enabled all sons to claim throne on equal standing and fight for it with armies. Ummayad and Abbasid succesion was not primogeniture but it wasn't exactly a free for all either. It was in practice more akin to Byzantine succession, whereby a relative of the caliph, though not necessarily a son or even blood relative, would become the successor with support from various factions and their general overall power and wealth. In practice most succession is a son, brother, cousin or nephew.

A system that allows indirect successions like this and enable a fallback without game failure could be used for both the caliphs and Byzantine Empire. If for example you failed to ensure succession to your direct relative on character death the descendant could play from the power base whether with landed titles or estates then try to become the emperor or caliph again. Part of the gameplay would be to also at least assure the next descendant has enough power base to keep a powerful position to become the ruler again. They would need to decouple the assigned heir from the state succession though so you would need to choose not just your heir but also which child you want to keep playing as after character death.

As a note an Abbasid caliph did try and establish a direct succession system towards end of the caliphate so it shouldn't be too set in stone either.

 

[FreeKaner]

More like, the only brother to escape getting purged ends up in rebellion against you.

This was indeed what happened and it was the reason direct fratricide was allowed. Still didn't prevent this happening occasionally such as when Selim I rushed to the capital and dethroned his father and killed his brother because he had the support of jannisaries or Suleiman's sons having a sort of "controlled civil war".

He even failed to kill one of his nephews who ended up not being able gather enough support to rebel and fled to Iran.

 

[Delterius]

A system that allows indirect successions like this and enable a fallback without game failure could be used for both the caliphs and Byzantine Empire. If for example you failed to ensure succession to your direct relative on character death the descendant could play from the power base whether with landed titles or estates then try to become the emperor or caliph again.

I was thinking of this earlier. This is where the Byzantine and Caliphal experiences should differ. With the Byzantines there is an incentive to give make members of your family into governors and council members. They'll choose amongst themselves who should lead the empire next and you play as them anyways so it's fine. With the Caliphate instead you could limit elections to members of the ruling dynasty, but in case direct succession is not secured (say, you die while your kids are all still infants) then you lose the Empire and the capital to whoever was chosen by the governors. You retain a claim and you continue the game from the rest of your demesne. That way you don't actually want multiple Abbassid governors across the Caliphate, you want your bureaucrats to have incentives to pick your own kids.

 

[FreeKaner]

Did they do that before the Ottomans though? Cus I kinda want it in game.



Exactly, even if you think it's shit and terrible and 'pozzed' or whatever else, it's still already way bigger and more elaborate than any other game expansions they've put out.

They indeed do that. However most of Muslim world ended up being dominated by a Turkish dynasty or another so there is fair amount of variance depending on how they actually took over. Tulunids in Egypt for example, short lasted but the first and only succession literally ends up with one brother rebelling against another. Various governors (Sultans, which eventually became a title akin to King because of Turkish takeover) not being direct rulers and generally acting as "viceroys" in Abbasid name succeeding in more loose ways. When Seljuks invaded they also had an open succession and have plenty of fraternal civil wars. Indeed one of them is actually a four way civil war between three brothers and a nephew. Seljuks went ahead and even split to two branches after they entered Anatolia because of succession.