Decline Critical role ruined PnP

[Poseidon00]

WoTC was looking for "influencers" and found them in Critical Role. They would never have chosen right wing influencers,

 

[Humbaba]

I don't even know where to start with this - do you imagine that homosexuality/transgenderism was somehow tolerated or legal in the USSR and that it's just the new Russian Federation that disapproves? Homosexuality was decriminalised after the 1917 revolution, partly by accident and partly because a minority thought it was a mental disorder that could be solved via medical intervention. It was formally recriminised in 1933 and after that they sent a lot of gay men to the gulags.

Bit of a problem for your one dimensional worldview that places everyone on a spectrum between (presumably Catholic) religious conservatives and hardline homocommunism.

I really don't have the time to go line by line through your post ripping it to shreds, just going to pick on one other choice piece of utter nonsense:



No, "in fact", Tolkien was such a deeply rooted conservative that he wanted to roll back the cultural influence of the Norman Conquest.

I would also point out that Gynax was a card carrying Libertarian Party member, but of course you would view them as dangerously left wing and "godless".

Strong contender for stupidest post 2021. First of all, only a completely bird brained moron like you would think that cultural bolshevism means that homosexuality was approved by the USSR. Look into the history of the term and the development of homosexual degeneracy in other, modern communist countries.

Tolkien is utterly and completely detached from the kind of fantasy DnD is a part of and literally everyone knows this except you utter dumbass. Everyone knows that DnD draws it's inspiration primarily from pulp fantasy and people like Moorcock rather than Tolkien.

Libertarianism is not based whatsoever and the party of pedophiles such as yourself. Fuck off you fucking moron. Gimme a butthurt rating and be retarded somewhere else.

 

[Catacombs]

They would never have chosen right wing influencers

I'd love to see how that would've gone.

 

[Poseidon00]

I'd love to see how that would've gone.

Boggles the mind that such a thing doesn't exist seeing as how they would get endless free press from the haters within the mainstream "community" (god I hate that word)

 

[Catacombs]

oggles the mind that such a thing doesn't exist seeing as how they would get endless free press from the haters within the mainstream "community" (god I hate that word)

They exist. They're just not on the normal channels. The RPG Pundit comes to mind.

 

[JamesDixon]

Tolkien is utterly and completely detached from the kind of fantasy DnD is a part of and literally everyone knows this except you utter dumbass. Everyone knows that DnD draws it's inspiration primarily from pulp fantasy and people like Moorcock rather than Tolkien./QUOTE]

I guess Gary was lying in Appendix N of the AD&D 1E DMG then huh?

There's all the sources that Gary drew from and there are more listed in other books.

 

[FreshCorpse]

First of all, only a completely bird brained moron like you would think that cultural bolshevism means that homosexuality was approved by the USSR. Look into the history of the term and the development of homosexual degeneracy in other, modern communist countries.

In the USSR it was criminal. In Cuba it was criminal and then later just repressed in practice up until the 90s. Similar story in mainland China. There are nearly no "modern communist countries" today, save China depending on how you view it. What are all these communist countries that have encouraged homosexuality then?

Tolkien is utterly and completely detached from the kind of fantasy DnD is a part of and literally everyone knows this except you utter dumbass. Everyone knows that DnD draws it's inspiration primarily from pulp fantasy and people like Moorcock rather than Tolkien.

Pretending that Tolkien isn't central is just utter, utter, bollocks. Ask your local D&D group if they know who the fuck Moorcock is. I would bet they have no clue and less interest. The operative entry to D&D for most people is the desire to have an epic adventure. Try and riddle out whether Moorcock is the primary inspiration for that.

Libertarianism is not based whatsoever and the party of pedophiles such as yourself. Fuck off you fucking moron. Gimme a butthurt rating and be retarded somewhere else.

Ending with "you paedo!" is just cringe mate

 

[Cryomancer]

In the USSR it was criminal. In Cuba it was criminal and then later just repressed in practice up until the 90s. Similar story in mainland China. There are nearly no "modern communist countries" today, save China depending on how you view it. What are all these communist countries that have encouraged homosexuality then?

Like or not, marxists from frankfurt school ARE marxists. And modern neo marxists ARE marxists too. The unique difference is that Marx viewed different groups as oppressors and oppressed. (ie - Marx viewed the capitalist as oppressor and the worker as oppressed. Neo Marxists views cis white male as the oppressor and "POC" as oppressed).

And the reason that you don't see more communist countries in this world is simple. As Mises described, central planning always fails. Hence why China had to change to a mixed economy. Marxism also needs to be imposed by force. And even with a awful sense of dread with secret police, spies and everything, people tried uprising after uprising, people in North Korea risk his life in machine gun nests, landmines and so on to MAYBE get more freedom. That said, most people who advocate for alphabet soap lobby, groups like Burn Loot Murder and so on describe themselves as marxists. And WoTC is strongly influenced by the frankfurt school of marxism. Every social democrat since Rosa Luxemburg declares themselves as marxists.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.
" source > https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17207/Defilers-and-Preservers-The-Wizards-of-Athas-2e

That mindset if a very lefitist mindset.

 

[PorkaMorka]

cultural bolshevism ... As with all of the modern world's evils, they are perpetrated by the atheist and the capitalist.

Those darn capitalists, promoting cultural marxism.

The fact is that the American (liberal) political establishment made a decision to promote cultural leftism, and they did it for their own reasons, not because a few Marxist philosophers achieved a critical success on their persuasion check.

The cultural cold war began in postwar Europe, with the fraying of the wartime alliance between Washington and Moscow. Officials in the West believed they had to counter Soviet propaganda and undermine the wide sympathy for Communism in France and Italy.

An odd alliance was struck between the C.I.A. leaders, most of them wealthy Ivy League veterans of the wartime Office of Strategic Services and a corps of largely Jewish ex-Communists who had broken with Moscow to become virulently anti-Communist

The C.I.A. recognized from the beginning that it could not openly sponsor artists and intellectuals in Europe because there was so much anti-American feeling there. Instead, it decided to woo intellectuals out of the Soviet orbit by secretly promoting a non-Communist left of democratic socialists disillusioned with Moscow.

Traveling first class all the way, the C.I.A. and its counterparts in other Western European nations sponsored art exhibitions, intellectual conferences, concerts and magazines to press their larger anti-Soviet agenda. Ms. Stonor Saunders provides ample evidence, for example, that the editors at Encounter and other agency-sponsored magazines were ordered not to publish articles directly critical of Washington's foreign policy. She also shows how the C.I.A. bankrolled some of the earliest exhibitions of Abstract Expressionist painting outside of the United States to counter the Socialist Realism being advanced by Moscow.

Ms. Stonor Saunders describes how the C.I.A. cleverly skimmed hundreds of millions of dollars from the Marshall Plan to finance its activities, funneling the money through fake philanthropies it created or real ones like the Ford Foundation.

''We couldn't spend it all,'' Gilbert Greenway, a former C.I.A. agent, recalled. ''There were no limits, and nobody had to account for it. It was amazing.''

...
Ms. Stonor Saunders reports that one operative who was a producer and talent agent slipped affluent-looking African-Americans into several films as extras to try to counter Soviet criticism of the American race problem.

www . nytimes . com /2000/03/18/books/how-the-cia-played-dirty-tricks-with-culture.html

(Tons of other sources available, I just wanted to include the NYT mentioning everyone's favorite ethnic group by name).

Just as the CIA promoted a non-communist cultural leftism in order to counter the Soviet Union and promote liberal capitalism, today's SJWs help maintain a paradigm where the "left" in America supports capitalism, as long as it has black female CEOs, gay pride flags in twitter bios...and trannies in every video game.

Calling them cultural marxists is giving them too much credit, they didn't subvert the establishment, they were subverted by the establishment.

 

[Humbaba]

In the USSR it was criminal. In Cuba it was criminal and then later just repressed in practice up until the 90s. Similar story in mainland China. There are nearly no "modern communist countries" today, save China depending on how you view it. What are all these communist countries that have encouraged homosexuality then?



Pretending that Tolkien isn't central is just utter, utter, bollocks. Ask your local D&D group if they know who the fuck Moorcock is. I would bet they have no clue and less interest. The operative entry to D&D for most people is the desire to have an epic adventure. Try and riddle out whether Moorcock is the primary inspiration for that.



Ending with "you paedo!" is just cringe mate

Only a pedophile could be this wrong with this amount of confidence.

Those darn capitalists, promoting cultural marxism.

The fact is that the American (liberal) political establishment made a decision to promote cultural leftism, and they did it for their own reasons, not because a few Marxist philosophers achieved a critical success on their persuasion check.


www . nytimes . com /2000/03/18/books/how-the-cia-played-dirty-tricks-with-culture.html

(Tons of other sources available, I just wanted to include the NYT mentioning everyone's favorite ethnic group by name).

Just as the CIA promoted a non-communist cultural leftism in order to counter the Soviet Union and promote liberal capitalism, today's SJWs help maintain a paradigm where the "left" in America supports capitalism, as long as it has black female CEOs, gay pride flags in twitter bios...and trannies in every video game.

Calling them cultural marxists is giving them too much credit, they didn't subvert the establishment, they were subverted by the establishment.

Ok so when I make the connection between modern capitalism and cultural bolshevism you roll your eyes but when you do it it is based? Because you baselessly assume that I actually believe that for marxism to happen there need to be marxist philosophers actively working in every facet of business? Alright buddy.

 

[Zeriel]

cultural bolshevism ... As with all of the modern world's evils, they are perpetrated by the atheist and the capitalist.

Those darn capitalists, promoting cultural marxism.

The fact is that the American (liberal) political establishment made a decision to promote cultural leftism, and they did it for their own reasons, not because a few Marxist philosophers achieved a critical success on their persuasion check.

The cultural cold war began in postwar Europe, with the fraying of the wartime alliance between Washington and Moscow. Officials in the West believed they had to counter Soviet propaganda and undermine the wide sympathy for Communism in France and Italy.

An odd alliance was struck between the C.I.A. leaders, most of them wealthy Ivy League veterans of the wartime Office of Strategic Services and a corps of largely Jewish ex-Communists who had broken with Moscow to become virulently anti-Communist

The C.I.A. recognized from the beginning that it could not openly sponsor artists and intellectuals in Europe because there was so much anti-American feeling there. Instead, it decided to woo intellectuals out of the Soviet orbit by secretly promoting a non-Communist left of democratic socialists disillusioned with Moscow.

Traveling first class all the way, the C.I.A. and its counterparts in other Western European nations sponsored art exhibitions, intellectual conferences, concerts and magazines to press their larger anti-Soviet agenda. Ms. Stonor Saunders provides ample evidence, for example, that the editors at Encounter and other agency-sponsored magazines were ordered not to publish articles directly critical of Washington's foreign policy. She also shows how the C.I.A. bankrolled some of the earliest exhibitions of Abstract Expressionist painting outside of the United States to counter the Socialist Realism being advanced by Moscow.

Ms. Stonor Saunders describes how the C.I.A. cleverly skimmed hundreds of millions of dollars from the Marshall Plan to finance its activities, funneling the money through fake philanthropies it created or real ones like the Ford Foundation.

''We couldn't spend it all,'' Gilbert Greenway, a former C.I.A. agent, recalled. ''There were no limits, and nobody had to account for it. It was amazing.''

...
Ms. Stonor Saunders reports that one operative who was a producer and talent agent slipped affluent-looking African-Americans into several films as extras to try to counter Soviet criticism of the American race problem.

www . nytimes . com /2000/03/18/books/how-the-cia-played-dirty-tricks-with-culture.html

(Tons of other sources available, I just wanted to include the NYT mentioning everyone's favorite ethnic group by name).

Just as the CIA promoted a non-communist cultural leftism in order to counter the Soviet Union and promote liberal capitalism, today's SJWs help maintain a paradigm where the "left" in America supports capitalism, as long as it has black female CEOs, gay pride flags in twitter bios...and trannies in every video game.

Calling them cultural marxists is giving them too much credit, they didn't subvert the establishment, they were subverted by the establishment.

It's always hard to tell whether it is the tail wagging the dog or the dog wagging the tail in these situations. The centrists in 1930s Germany thought they were using Hitler as a rube to accomplish their aims until they found out that he was the one using them. So it goes with mass movements and manipulating them too. Sure, in the short term you may think you are just completely co-opting them, but if your clever ploy inculcates the masses into communism as a cultural trick, eventually that cultural trick may turn around and play itself on you.

There is an important point to be made here that "the establishment" never actually dies of course. Even if there's a massive takeover the same corporate elites would still have lots of wealth and power--but it's also true that they can lose control to a great degree and just find themselves swept up in events.

 

[PorkaMorka]

Ok so when I make the connection between modern capitalism and cultural bolshevism you roll your eyes but when you do it it is based? Because you baselessly assume that I actually believe that for marxism to happen there need to be marxist philosophers actively working in every facet of business? Alright buddy.

Calling it Marxism or Bolshevism just creates a whole bunch of misleading implications. It enables people boomers to say stuff like "The Soviets really won the cold war, by infecting us with Cultural Marxism." And that's just wrong, because the quote un-quote West intentionally used wokeness against its own population.

Wokeness is a form of liberalism, turned into a weapon, cooked up our ancient friends and their enablers, within the power structure of the quote un-quote West. Whatever name you call it should not obscure the actual perpetrators and shift blame onto foreigners who were not responsible. It's not the Russians (or even Karl Marx) who needs to take the blame for creating wokeness. It's the bipartisan American political establishment.

TL/DR: It's more like cultural liberalism

Spoiler

or cultural Judaism

not cultural Marxism

 

[Morblot]

 

[Humbaba]

Wokeness is a form of liberalism, turned into a weapon, cooked up our ancient friends and their enablers, within the power structure of the quote un-quote West.

Yes, i.e the capitalists. I said that and you very rudely rolled your eyes. Just because librulz utilize cultural bolshevism in order to sell products and further their democratic political careers doesn't make it any less bolshevist. I agree that the modern alt-left is about as traditionally communist as the modern alt-right is fascist but just because both are faggots doesn't mean you can't absolve Marx or Hitler from their responsibility.

cultural Judaism

Bruh, Jews are some of the most conservative people on the planet. Inb4 "bbbut early commies were jews!!!!" well if they were communists then they were atheists weren't they. While we're at it: No Marx was not jewish either.

 

[Morblot]

...is anyone actually reading this conversation autistic shit flinging contest? I certainly am not. :D

 

[NJClaw]

...is anyone actually reading this conversation autistic shit flinging contest? I certainly am not. :D

 

[Gahbreeil]

I absolutely agree with the OP. Besides that I have memories of this bullsh*t of my own while playing with school colleagues while underaged.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Powered by The Apocalypse ruined PNP, since it dominated the indie scene and crowded out a variety of rpgs in favour of a legion of collaborative story games. Thank god for OSR and Free League. 5e was already too garbage to be ruined by Critical Role tbh.

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

Powered by The Apocalypse ruined PNP, since it dominated the indie scene and crowded out a variety of rpgs in favour of a legion of collaborative story games.

Thank you anon! You are a good anon! It is nonsense anon because it is roll 2d6 anon for schizo fantasy anon! It is!

 

[Larianshill]

You would know, you braindead fucking loon.

 

[gurugeorge]

There was always a pervy side to this stuff, but it was part of a subculture. Remember those?

There are no subcultures any more because they've all been normalized. And in being normalized they've lost the edge, the excitement of being something slightly forbidden and naughty. You literally can't have a subculture without there being a mainstream to contrast it against. Liberation is meaningless unless there's restriction to contrast it against.

It's the same as with sex. We've gone from a time when a glimpse of of side-boob or a flip through the lingerie pages of a catalogue would be tremendously exciting, to a time when the butcher's window is on full display, and it's just ... boring. In fact it's so boring that people need to chase more and more extreme images and fantasies to get the same instant wood they used to get from a mere glimpse of stocking or a brief kiss.

You can't have the excitement of unveiling something unless it is first veiled. Suggesting the monster is scarier than showing the monster.

Fantasy no longer being a subculture nowadays also means there's no sense of ownership and care - it's no longer anybody's "our thing," it's everybody's and nobody's. It's just another consoomer product; and the pervy side of it is also just another consoomer product. That's what makes it disgusting. Frankly there was more dignity in the pervy side of fantasy being the sweaty concern of a few, expressed in the occasional questionable drawing in a fanzine, than there is in the glossy, glitzy, status-chasing form it all takes now. That was honest expression of self, squeezed out with great pain and trepidation. This is fake.

 

[lightbane]

Powered by The Apocalypse ruined PNP, since it dominated the indie scene and crowded out a variety of rpgs in favour of a legion of collaborative story games. Thank god for OSR and Free League. 5e was already too garbage to be ruined by Critical Role tbh.

I think it was not because of the rules themselves, which are vague and punish you for not succeeding good enough (the "fall forward" stuff) that can make things worse than outright failing. Then there was some awkward and unnecessary stuff such as rules for special effects you get after having sex, literally. Allegedly that game was made by some creep to flirt with girls. Either way, fangames and derivatives of that one weren't much better, although there is the occasional gem amongst them like the Mouseguard RPG.
The decline is mostly because PnP became mainstream, as stated above, as well as the mental decay that seems to permeate society nowadays.

 

[ㅤㅤㅤ]

Bruh, Jews are some of the most conservative people on the planet.

Conservative judaism is religious nazism for them and faggotry for everyone else. These are not opposing concepts.

 

[Ismaul]

Powered by The Apocalypse ruined PNP, since it dominated the indie scene and crowded out a variety of rpgs in favour of a legion of collaborative story games. Thank god for OSR and Free League. 5e was already too garbage to be ruined by Critical Role tbh.

I think it was not because of the rules themselves, which are vague and punish you for not succeeding good enough (the "fall forward" stuff) that can make things worse than outright failing. Then there was some awkward and unnecessary stuff such as rules for special effects you get after having sex, literally. Allegedly that game was made by some creep to flirt with girls.

Vincent D. Baker is a proper game designer, likely not woke enough for modern times. He's great at inventing mechanics that push you to play in a way that fits the game's theme. He's been less about systems and more about dice mechanics and rules that create a specific experience at the table. Apocalypse World was his try at a mainstream RPG, much less experimental, playing less to his strengths.

His indie games are much better IMO, I ran many of them. Dogs in the Vineyard is about lawmen in a lawless world, likely seen as too conservative now. In a Wicked Age was a great improv system. Both had conflict resolution that worked well for dialogues and combat both, or dialogues that escalate seamlessly into combat. Nice dice mechanics.

Poison'd was about playing mean pirates, that one was something. Character creation had you choosing the sins you've committed, and the sins that have been committed against you. Rape, torture, mutilation, blasphemy, sodomy, etc. All were on the list. And from those you derived your stats. The number of sins committed determined how much Devil you had in you, and your Soul (8 - Devil). The number of things you suffered determined your Brutality. And then your selected a number of goals which determined your Ambition (ex: fuck X character, have revenge against another PC, become the captain, spit in the eye of God, etc.). All those were tied to some other PCs, so you already had deep disfunctional relationships between PCs at the start, plus some Deals and Bargains made between PCs to tie it all in a knot. And then the game starts, the captain gets killed, and those dirty pirates are unleashed against the world and each other. To do things, you had to roll against yourself, so a good part of the conflict was internal. You rolled your Soul vs your Devil when trying to endure and persevere, Ambition vs Brutality when trying to act stealthily or cunningly, Brutality vs Soul when trying to go through with a mean action, etc. The system was elegant yet established an atmosphere of high stakes brutality, which obviously wouldn't fly today.

He also had a joke RPG called Kill Puppies for Satan, in which you played loser emo kids with almost no friends trying to gain favor with Satan by killing pupies for him. How disgusting your description of the puppy murder was, and how innocent, cute and loved it was determined how much Evil you gained to cast spells lol. Totally edgy on purpose, absurd. 20 years ago he had a blog where he posted all the hate mail he got from little girls and moms raging against his game. It was great.

In any case, his influence on RPGs is in no way comparable to Critical Role's or the wokesters'.

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

Powered by The Apocalypse ruined PNP, since it dominated the indie scene and crowded out a variety of rpgs in favour of a legion of collaborative story games. Thank god for OSR and Free League. 5e was already too garbage to be ruined by Critical Role tbh.

I think it was not because of the rules themselves, which are vague and punish you for not succeeding good enough (the "fall forward" stuff) that can make things worse than outright failing.

What! No initiative is nonsense anon because it is not turn order anon and it is turn disorder anon and negotiation consensus is nonsense anon because it does destruction anon game pace anon because all anons do difference function interpretation anon! It is true anon! It is! It is nonsense anon! It is!