Cool ideas you have for systems in RPGs

[Gangrelrumbler]

whats the difference to an inventory, aside from fluff...? none. what do you think is the difference between a journalentry and an item is?
you can do this in fallout...
it needs complex checks and design in quests, and thats the reason no one is doing it

The idea is to have the game handle information without making complex checks whenever an NPC requires information from the player. When player needs to deliver food as part of the quest he can turn in any item categorized as consumable by the game. You rarely need a specific unique food item. Similarly when the player needs to find more about specific faction they could have him gather "mental items" from a relevant category of a certain value rather than having him hunt down a specific dialogue tree that was setup just for this one quest.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Disco didn't do that exactly, but i am pretty sure at least one adventhre game from studio, that made another adventure game mry hates because protag was named azriel, did this
It also had multiple characters acting at different areas
Frankly multiple adventure games probably played with this idea.

I think Ace Attorney and Danganronpa did it. You had items in your inventory, but these were clues you gathered, rather than actual items you had on your person. A bottle meant that a bottle was found on a crime scene, not that MC carries it around in his pocket.

 

[std::namespace]

The idea is to have the game handle information without making complex checks whenever an NPC requires information from the player.

u do realize that internally items and info look the same? and that game logic has to act on that data? games dont magically start implementing your ideas...
tell me which is your "information" and which is "items"?
data1 = [a,b,c,d]
data2 = [f,g,h,k]
and tell me how a game engine is to act on "information" without making specific checks?
everything you want is just pointless fluff

 

[std::namespace]

or a vastly more complicated system which I didn't attempt

u can make it very simple
hp represents time-to-kill
you just pull the chance to hit on dragons into very low ranges and add thresholds, done

its just not fun

 

[Saduj]

I was thinking of a way to replace cooldowns or "once per combat' abilities with something the player has control over. The idea I had was to set up a "banking AP" system in a turned based game. Your character could begin combat being able to use a powerful ability once and then it is locked. It only becomes unlocked if you bank a certain number of AP, depending on the ability. By banking, I mean having extra AP left over at the end of your turn. The "logic" behind it is that using the ability is strenuous and the character must conserve their strength before using it again. From a game perspective, it adds a real cost to spamming powerful abilities.

 

[Vic]

I used to think an RPG without hitpoints would be pretty cool, so I started making it. But then I added 'health states', which basically set all creatures to having 3 hitpoints. Then some months later after much internal debate I decided some monsters should have a few extra hitpoints because they're big giants or dragons. Didn't take long after that to throw in the towel and realise why hitpoints exist. I think a lot of your 'cool ideas' would be similar.

combat without hitpoints would mean everything has 1 hitpoint ie dies in one hit, no?

Yes or a vastly more complicated system which I didn't attempt (real life doesn't have hitpoints)

riight, like dwarf fortress

Combat in Dwarf Fortress is unlike that in most strategy and role-playing games. Rather than having hit points, units have a collection of body parts, such as limbs, head(s) and a torso. These have sub-parts: limbs have skin, fat, muscle, tendons, bones, nerves and arteries; heads have brains, eyes, noses, mouths, teeth and tongues; and torsos have internal organs. Damage to these parts and sub-parts causes various negative effects, such as fainting, vomiting, loss of mobility due to bone fractures or nerve damage, and eventually leading to death from organ failure or blood loss. The combat system tries to present a fairly realistic depiction of combat, with several important consequences.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

The idea is to have the game handle information without making complex checks whenever an NPC requires information from the player.

u do realize that internally items and info look the same? and that game logic has to act on that data? games dont magically start implementing your ideas...
tell me which is your "information" and which is "items"?
data1 = [a,b,c,d]
data2 = [f,g,h,k]
and tell me how a game engine is to act on "information" without making specific checks?
everything you want is just pointless fluff

In your first post you wrote that nobody does it because it requires complex checks, but games already check if players have items from certain category in the inventory.
It could be done via a very long journal entry but that could also be said about regular inventory, characters stats and such. If combat is turn-based it could also be completely text based. In fact the journal itself is completely unnecessary, players can simply take notes themselves. It doesn't mean that it's all just fluff.

 

[luj1]

I was thinking of a way to replace cooldowns or "once per combat' abilities with something the player has control over. The idea I had was to set up a "banking AP" system in a turned based game. Your character could begin combat being able to use a powerful ability once and then it is locked. It only becomes unlocked if you bank a certain number of AP, depending on the ability. By banking, I mean having extra AP left over at the end of your turn. The "logic" behind it is that using the ability is strenuous and the character must conserve their strength before using it again. From a game perspective, it adds a real cost to spamming powerful abilities.

There were some classes which work like that (resource mechanic) but I forgot from where

EDIT: Warrior in Guild Wars (and the resource was Adrenaline) and Berserker in Lost Ark (rage I think)

 

[std::namespace]

In your first post you wrote that nobody does it because it requires complex checks, but games already check if players have items from certain category in the inventory.

data checks are trivial for items because they are intentionally made this way by the developers
if data1 is available than finish_quest
is very simple

BUT

if data2 is available and faction7 is aware that faction3 knows about data2 than faction1 treats you badly
is EXPONENTIALLY more difficult to manage for the developer
you can do this is even in fallout1 but its very painful

there is still no functional difference between them
the ui that you see is different, its fluff, thats all

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

if data2 is available and faction7 is aware that faction3 knows about data2 than faction1 treats you badly
is EXPONENTIALLY more difficult to manage for the developer
you can do this is even in fallout1 but its very painful

I was thinking of something far simplier than this example
data 2: tag 1, tag 2, tag 3, tag 4, value X sold to X and Y. Which would translate to something like that: "goblins are blocking the northern pass"; tags: goblin activity, northern pass, relevant to merchants, value: 80, already sold at info broker at starting town (so it can't be resold). Then when the NPC asks the player to find out more about goblin activity the game can just check if goblin info he has exceeds a certain value. And when the player finds out something about the goblins he knows how important is that information by checking the value.

 

[Loch and Quay]

So my idea is mental inventory. It's like a regular inventory but instead of listing items, it lists things you've learned so far. Whenever you find out something significant (piece of obscure lore, geographic location of something important, personal information about certain characters etc.) you get an unique item symbolizing what you've just learned.

These can be used in several ways. First of all they can be sold to information brokers for money or other information. Information sold that way won't disappear from your inventory but it's value will drop down, after all the more people know about a secret the less valuable it is. The other use would be to affect dialogue choices. Some choices can only be accessed if you have a specific piece of information, like knowing about the mutant's infertility in Fallout one. Other times knowing a certain "value of secrets" will be enough. Having enough items tagged "political intrigue" which symbolize secrets you know about local nobility would be used to impress a local lord. Knowing enough "arcane secrets" would impress a wizard etc. Other times it could be used to make certain check easier. A guard will let you into a city if you bribe him or show him proper papers. But exchanging knowledge about far-off lands will lower his price.

The obvious question is: "why bother with all that crap instead of tracking everything in your journal like in a normal RPG". It makes playing a diplomat more fun, because instead of putting points into your speech skill you now need to actually think about what you're doing and play it a bit like an adventure game. You only run into a wall as a diplomat when you encounter a speech check that is too difficult for you at a given moment, the only way out of this situation is to reload and return to the conversation after you've put some more points in the relevant skill. If some additional information is needed you just need to finnish relevant subquests on your way. Now when you run into a wall you need to think about whom you're talking to and what information could this guy be interested in. Then you need to think where could you find this kind of information and hunt down relevant NPC. This would make playing a talker feel more like an actual game than a CYOA.

I like this, it reminds me of trading technologies in 4x games in the sense of giving away privileged information and all the gameplay consequences that might entail. It also has the effect of tying diplomacy to other systems in the game like money, which makes non-combat gameplay richer and not just a reload and invest skill points fest like you described.

 

[Loch and Quay]

Something I haven't seen: Vancian Magic in a roguelike. The distinguishing aspect of Vancian Magic (having to anticipate what challenges you might face in the near future) is totally wasted in a game that is the same every time and in which you can load saves. And more broadly speaking, I think there is way more design space in roguelikes for interesting magical effects that simply aren't possible in other formats, particularly when it comes to effects that allow you to acquire information. Clairvoyance, mind reading, prophecies - things that could be easily implemented with the right kinds of systems.

 

[Shadenuat]

Cha should be divorced from Beauty like in Arcanum. That's not what the Greeks meant by Charisma.

Beauty as a stat is nonsense anyway. Even in Arcanum it didn't play an important role and if the game wasn't so easy/easy to break no one would make a beautiful character. Because the game isn't particularly challenging people can take it and larp. The thing is - adding stats that are mostly useless is not a good design.
Beauty, if at all relevant (I'd say for CRPGs it rarely is) should be made as a trait that can be picked only at character creation. As two opposed traits pretty/ugly, everyone without any of those two is average. That should be all that is needed for 99% of CRPGs that take beauty into account in a systemic way.
And in the case you responded to, the trait could be lost in a few ways: age if the game tracks it, a battle scar - at least a real reason for bards to stay back in combat. Possibly more.

Its nonsense if whole story is about murderhoboing
If rpg js about court intrigue and you need to outplay 3 other princesses beauty would be more realistic stat than strength

And how many COMPUTER rpgs do you know where gameplay is centered on court intrigue? Exactly. You can theorize about nonexistent genres and games all you want. I'm talking about a genre and games that actually exists.

In a genre that exists, beauty would still be less nonsense than say charisma. Because beauty is more objective and its effect on npcs easy to quantify, while things like leadership is not as universal thing: you can be nobody and loathed and nonleadery everywhere, but a star on rpg codex, for example.

 

[NecroLord]

Cha should be divorced from Beauty like in Arcanum. That's not what the Greeks meant by Charisma.

Beauty as a stat is nonsense anyway. Even in Arcanum it didn't play an important role and if the game wasn't so easy/easy to break no one would make a beautiful character. Because the game isn't particularly challenging people can take it and larp. The thing is - adding stats that are mostly useless is not a good design.
Beauty, if at all relevant (I'd say for CRPGs it rarely is) should be made as a trait that can be picked only at character creation. As two opposed traits pretty/ugly, everyone without any of those two is average. That should be all that is needed for 99% of CRPGs that take beauty into account in a systemic way.
And in the case you responded to, the trait could be lost in a few ways: age if the game tracks it, a battle scar - at least a real reason for bards to stay back in combat. Possibly more.

Its nonsense if whole story is about murderhoboing
If rpg js about court intrigue and you need to outplay 3 other princesses beauty would be more realistic stat than strength

And how many COMPUTER rpgs do you know where gameplay is centered on court intrigue? Exactly. You can theorize about nonexistent genres and games all you want. I'm talking about a genre and games that actually exists.

In a genre that exists, beauty would still be less nonsense than say charisma. Because beauty is more objective and its effect on npcs easy to quantify, while things like leadership is not as universal thing: you can be nobody and loathed and nonleadery everywhere, but a star on rpg codex, for example.

Arcanum described Beauty as "Physical Charisma" and Charisma as "Mental Charisma".
The first one is the direct impression you give due to your physical attractiveness (or lack thereof).
The second one is the ability to lead and to convince others that your way is the right way. Fallout did it right by making Intelligence and Speech synergize with Charisma, a charismatic person or leader should know how to communicate effectively and sway others through force of personality.

 

[Dadd]

- every time a party member dies and you resurrect him, he loses -1 CON permanently

I think Grimoire had something like this. But it's been a while since I finished it.

Something I haven't seen: Vancian Magic in a roguelike. The distinguishing aspect of Vancian Magic (having to anticipate what challenges you might face in the near future) is totally wasted in a game that is the same every time and in which you can load saves. And more broadly speaking, I think there is way more design space in roguelikes for interesting magical effects that simply aren't possible in other formats, particularly when it comes to effects that allow you to acquire information. Clairvoyance, mind reading, prophecies - things that could be easily implemented with the right kinds of systems.

Infra Arcana has "tenebrous" spells which you forget after casting. There are rare terrain objects which can make you recall forgotten spells. Reading single-use manuscripts for those spells can make you recall them.

 

[CryptRat]

I was thinking of a way to replace cooldowns or "once per combat' abilities with something the player has control over. The idea I had was to set up a "banking AP" system in a turned based game. Your character could begin combat being able to use a powerful ability once and then it is locked. It only becomes unlocked if you bank a certain number of AP, depending on the ability. By banking, I mean having extra AP left over at the end of your turn. The "logic" behind it is that using the ability is strenuous and the character must conserve their strength before using it again. From a game perspective, it adds a real cost to spamming powerful abilities.

Thanks for mentioning that, Paper Sorcerer (which probably ripped-off Final Fantasy : The 4 heroes of light) is based on stacking APs, you gain 1 or 2 extra APs per turn, do exactly one thing per turn (while what you describe is broader and nuanced) and need to consume APs if you want to use a skill, and you made me think of 2 things in the context of such games :
- it does not have to be Defend or spend more APs that you get for a turn, for example the weakest half abilities could cost less APs than you get for a turn (the weakest the least ...) and the strongest half cost more (the strongest the most ...), and
- on top of AP costs strong abilities could also reduce the number of APs gained during the next turns, which at least in theory adds an extra layer.

 

[Cancer]

So my idea is mental inventory. It's like a regular inventory but instead of listing items, it lists things you've learned so far. Whenever you find out something significant (piece of obscure lore, geographic location of something important, personal information about certain characters etc.) you get an unique item symbolizing what you've just learned.

These can be used in several ways. First of all they can be sold to information brokers for money or other information. Information sold that way won't disappear from your inventory but it's value will drop down, after all the more people know about a secret the less valuable it is. The other use would be to affect dialogue choices. Some choices can only be accessed if you have a specific piece of information, like knowing about the mutant's infertility in Fallout one. Other times knowing a certain "value of secrets" will be enough. Having enough items tagged "political intrigue" which symbolize secrets you know about local nobility would be used to impress a local lord. Knowing enough "arcane secrets" would impress a wizard etc. Other times it could be used to make certain check easier. A guard will let you into a city if you bribe him or show him proper papers. But exchanging knowledge about far-off lands will lower his price.

The obvious question is: "why bother with all that crap instead of tracking everything in your journal like in a normal RPG". It makes playing a diplomat more fun, because instead of putting points into your speech skill you now need to actually think about what you're doing and play it a bit like an adventure game. You only run into a wall as a diplomat when you encounter a speech check that is too difficult for you at a given moment, the only way out of this situation is to reload and return to the conversation after you've put some more points in the relevant skill. If some additional information is needed you just need to finnish relevant subquests on your way. Now when you run into a wall you need to think about whom you're talking to and what information could this guy be interested in. Then you need to think where could you find this kind of information and hunt down relevant NPC. This would make playing a talker feel more like an actual game than a CYOA.

This is actually a solid idea. The problem with detective games like the Sherlock Holmes titles and similar, is that you typically only keep the clues that you will use at one point in your "mental inventory", which highlights their gaminess. A better way would be to pick up a lot of excessive information, many more "mental items" than you will ever actually use, but be forced to decide for yourself what is actually useful in any situation. Text information is often meta-gamed though, so you would perhaps have to attach this to a language skill with certain thresholds for when the items would be appropriately marked for usage.

 

[The Wall]

Mixing simulated faction warfare and world with Majesty. Be able to give money you've earned through adventuring to any warring faction, beggar, merchant or someone else. See the effects of that money used to buy weapon and conquer territory, open new trade routes or in case of beggar becoming mayor and spending it all on drinks & hookers in town

AI should allow in future fully simulated game worlds. This simulation should be connected with good RPG system(s)

 

[Stoned Ape]

I used to think an RPG without hitpoints would be pretty cool, so I started making it. But then I added 'health states', which basically set all creatures to having 3 hitpoints. Then some months later after much internal debate I decided some monsters should have a few extra hitpoints because they're big giants or dragons. Didn't take long after that to throw in the towel and realise why hitpoints exist. I think a lot of your 'cool ideas' would be similar.

combat without hitpoints would mean everything has 1 hitpoint ie dies in one hit, no?

Yes or a vastly more complicated system which I didn't attempt (real life doesn't have hitpoints)

I tried prototyping a system for my final degree project that replaced HP by accounting for blood loss and pain levels which would cause progressively difficult Fortitude and Willpower checks until a character passed out (and possibly bleed out). I also had systems for broken or severed limbs and critical strikes damaging internal organs.

It was pretty complicated to get working, and I'm not sure it was more fun than just having HP. It was pretty easy to get into a death spiral after taking a couple of bad hits which would make a combat unwinnable.

I think those could be mitigated with some kind of Heroic Feat system where you have a certain number per day which a character can spend to automatically pass a skill check, cause a crit, to save against a crit, to stabilise a bleeding wound, or to stay conscious when they should pass out. I might go back and look at that again if I try building an RPG in the future.

 

[Arbiter]

- every time a party member dies and you resurrect him, he loses -1 CON permanently

Approaches to death and resurrection were discussed here:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/how-should-death-and-resurrection-be-handled-in-rpgs.144642/

- skills you dont use degrade every in-game month (or something like that)

In Daggerfall your skills deteriorate while you are in prison. In fact, you need to abuse this mechanic to reach the maximum level.

 

[luj1]

I am aware its not an RPG but I loved how Soul Reaver handled "death" wink wink

 

[Vulpes]

Permanent CON penalties for dying is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard for a RPG. All it does is encourage save scumming. "Your designated tank died? Well, tough shit! As punishment, he will be easier to kill from now on and a worse tank because of it. What's that? He's now stuck in an never-ending death-cycle? Not my problem! Go get a new tank and spend the next few hours grinding low level mobs until he matches your party's level"

What I personally want to see is the in-game economy having an actual effect on the game world. I don't mean in the usual "hurr durr, you've flooded the town's smithy with enchanted short swords, so now they're all cheap as dirt", but a mechanic where the items sold to a merchant have a chance to appear on local NPCs, including the enemies. Then you'd think twice about selling your collection of powerful weapons and consumables to a shady merchant with ties to the criminal underworld or the quartermaster for the local guard.

I know this isn't exactly a system, but I hate how, in games with persistent debuffs, there is no option to auto-apply curatives after combat is over. Having to manually use bandages and antidotes on your characters one by one is tedious as shit, especially in areas teeming with enemies that apply DoT effects.

 

[NecroLord]

Permanent CON penalties for dying is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard for a RPG. All it does is encourage save scumming. "Your designated tank died? Well, tough shit! As punishment, he will be easier to kill from now on and a worse tank because of it. What's that? He's now stuck in an never-ending death-cycle? Not my problem! Go get a new tank and spend the next few hours grinding low level mobs until he matches your party's level"

Heh.
You definitely refer to D&D, aren't you?
I'm generally opposed to resurrection in games. It shouldn't be a thing.
Death should a major factor and something serious.
Resurrection makes death become just a minor setback.
If it is available, then make it only available by completing a very dangerous quest and make it available for use only a limited amount. Also include major drawbacks and serious consequences when using it.

 

[Colossal Maximus]

For example i've been thinking about this


- every 5 levels your character gains +1 WIS as to reflect aging
- every time a party member dies and you resurrect him, he loses -1 CON permanently
- skills you dont use degrade every in-game month (or something like that)

Just some notes for consideration:

For point #1, leveling doesn't always equate to age. This would also be redundant depending on the level cap as eventually wisdom would be the same thing as your level (or close enough to not need 2 different things)

For point #3, the vast majority would absolutely hate a system like this. People do not like losing things that they have earned and put time into. A better way to achieve this goal would to simply develop new content or systems, so that a player will fall behind the curve if they stop playing or adding to the skill as they progress. For games that receive updates, this also has the upside of new content for the player to look forward to when they return, so that even though they are now behind at least there is new stuff to do. There is no practical difference between the two approaches as they achieve the same goal of "punishing" a player for not staying up to date or focusing on their skill throughout their journey. There is a reason that losing experience points upon dying has mostly been phased out of most genres of video games by now. Loss aversion is a very strong psychological thing.

As to your main question, a cool mechanic in games that I personally enjoy is being able to modify simple spells(or attacks) with non-spell-specific modifiers. For example, Tyranny's spell system, where for every spell you had 5 different modifiers you could attach to any spell (or combine two, making even more combinations). Path of Exile, while not an RPG exactly, has an excellent spell (gem) system where you can attach 5+ modifiers to each spell to change their elemental type, add more projectiles, change their projectile speed or pattern, etc. These modifiers are not specific to any one spell, so the player feels smart when they discover a new or strong combination. Access to resources that allow you to add more modifiers also become highly desirable and sought after, giving the player something to look forward to.
I.e. you start with a boring fireball. Then you get a thing that splits the fireball in 2. Then you get a thing that makes them return to you after a certain distance. Then you make them increase or vary in size. The best part is that you can then take those generic modifiers and transfer them onto other, new spells you might come across. I'm a big fan of modular systems like this.

On the topic of Path of Exile, I think their currency system is pretty great. They forgo gold or bottlecaps in favor of "currency" items that can actually change the modifiers on your gear. You definitely need a large and robust itemization system for that type of thing to work though.

These obviously aren't original ideas, but I definitely feel they could be incorporated into more RPG's to give a sense of uniqueness to each playthrough instead looking what other people are doing to quickly learn to spec into wizard skill x because it is simply the best.

 

[destinae vomitus]

- skill hunting


Never saw this in any games except Guild Wars.

You capture skills by defeating bosses, which leads to a deckbuilding system not unlike Magic The Gathering, with 1000s of skills to choose from

Troubleshooter's mastery system is like that albeit with passive skills/buffs, but there are ones that grant additional mechanics or outright abilities.