Conan Exiles - Funcom strikes again

[thesheeep]

My spoiled brat meter is tingling again, must be something about this thread.

Apparently the huge patch (fixing "over 500 issues", including some damn gamebreaking bugs) that was slated for this week will be deployed in September... Because they go on vacation.

So you are thinking that a working person should not be going on vacation, because your precious patch isn't done yet.
So what? Are devs only allowed to have vacation once their game is in pristine condition and fully done? What are they supposed to do? Cancel the vacation of their employees because something took longer than expected?
That might be doable for some indie devs, but this is a full-blown studio. In a country with quite a lot of vacation time, as most nordic countries have. And as most nordic countries, that vacation is usually in July or August. You can't just tell people to stay at work and cancel whatever they planned to do with their families
I wouldn't be surprised if Funcom Oslo team is working somewhat of a skeleton crew in July or August, that's pretty normal for IT companies (at least in Finland, so I guess it would be similar there).

Sorry, but the only in this case is you.

If at all, having vacation as normal - no matter the situation - is a commendable thing to do by Funcom, showing they value their employees at least somewhat.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

I have no doubts that the creative side would be beautifully realized. Everyone agrees that Secret World as a proper single-player RPG would be fantastic; and I hear good things about Age of Conan's content - it's the MMO structure that drags down its critical prestige.

The problem isn't lack of creative good taste; it's getting the Funcom Board of Grandmas to stop chasing outdated profit trends. "I hear the kids like the pokemans, let's spend millions doing our version of that." First it was subscription MMOs and now this open world survival nonsense. Their next game will prob be a mobile clicker with microtrans and loot boxes (now that that business model is facing substantial legislative scrutiny), then after that 5 years from now there'll be a battle royale game (probably in VR), once again too late to catch today's market boom.

That's just how Funcom operate. They have these brilliant creative folks creating captivating worlds, pump the hype, try and sell enough on launch before people realize the game is actually garbage and then dump and abandon it and move onto the next thing. It was the case with Anarchy, their first MMO in 2001, it was the case with Age of Conan, it was the case with TSW and it's the case with Exiles.

Fun fact: Anarchy is still running, it's one of the oldest MMO still in existence, it is also the most expensive MMO on the market with 15$/month subscription while also being a P2W with selling items that increase player power. This is the kind of company you're dealing with.

It's literally a Ponzi scheme. Save yourself nerves and never give them as much as a dollar.

Now go back and look up how much support Anarchy, TSW and Conan got (hint: quite a lot), and realize how stupid you are.

Yes indeed ask to the secret world fans how they are happy with secret world legends.

 

[J_C]

I have no doubts that the creative side would be beautifully realized. Everyone agrees that Secret World as a proper single-player RPG would be fantastic; and I hear good things about Age of Conan's content - it's the MMO structure that drags down its critical prestige.

The problem isn't lack of creative good taste; it's getting the Funcom Board of Grandmas to stop chasing outdated profit trends. "I hear the kids like the pokemans, let's spend millions doing our version of that." First it was subscription MMOs and now this open world survival nonsense. Their next game will prob be a mobile clicker with microtrans and loot boxes (now that that business model is facing substantial legislative scrutiny), then after that 5 years from now there'll be a battle royale game (probably in VR), once again too late to catch today's market boom.

That's just how Funcom operate. They have these brilliant creative folks creating captivating worlds, pump the hype, try and sell enough on launch before people realize the game is actually garbage and then dump and abandon it and move onto the next thing. It was the case with Anarchy, their first MMO in 2001, it was the case with Age of Conan, it was the case with TSW and it's the case with Exiles.

Fun fact: Anarchy is still running, it's one of the oldest MMO still in existence, it is also the most expensive MMO on the market with 15$/month subscription while also being a P2W with selling items that increase player power. This is the kind of company you're dealing with.

It's literally a Ponzi scheme. Save yourself nerves and never give them as much as a dollar.

Now go back and look up how much support Anarchy, TSW and Conan got (hint: quite a lot), and realize how stupid you are.

Yes indeed ask to the secret world fans how they are happy with secret world legends.

I couldn't be arsed to watch this video, but it is a fact that TSW got a lot of post launch support in terms of new content. And that was the topic at hand. How the relaunch turned out is a different matter entirely.

Every MMO is shit by the way, but TSW is the best among them thanks to its superior world building, writing, character, investigation missions and atmosphere.

 

[Idiott]

So you are thinking that a working person should not be going on vacation, because your precious patch isn't done yet.
So what? Are devs only allowed to have vacation once their game is in pristine condition and fully done? What are they supposed to do? Cancel the vacation of their employees because something took longer than expected?
That might be doable for some indie devs, but this is a full-blown studio. In a country with quite a lot of vacation time, as most nordic countries have. And as most nordic countries, that vacation is usually in July or August. You can't just tell people to stay at work and cancel whatever they planned to do with their families
I wouldn't be surprised if Funcom Oslo team is working somewhat of a skeleton crew in July or August, that's pretty normal for IT companies (at least in Finland, so I guess it would be similar there).

Sorry, but the only in this case is you.

If at all, having vacation as normal - no matter the situation - is a commendable thing to do by Funcom, showing they value their employees at least somewhat.

So instead of rescheduling the vacation to after the patch (which they've been hyping for a few weeks now) is done and the game is at least somewhat stable and not a complete broken mess, let's fuck off for a month and get to it later. Sound logic.

They could release a stream of hotfixes dealing with the most important issues instead of lumping everything in one megapatch that will most likely break just as many things. But wait, can't do that because of retarded console patch cycles.
How about at least patching the issues that are "fixed on testlive" before going off for a month, instead? I guess that's not an option too, because reasons.

At least in the places I worked in, if someone went to the client with "oh there is that important thing I was telling you about for a month and that I was supposed to complete next week, but the company goes on vacation so I'll get back to it next month" they wouldn't work there much longer.

The game is shedding players left and right. You can't generate money with a dead game.

 

[Burning Bridges]

My spoiled brat meter is tingling again, must be something about this thread.

Apparently the huge patch (fixing "over 500 issues", including some damn gamebreaking bugs) that was slated for this week will be deployed in September... Because they go on vacation.

So you are thinking that a working person should not be going on vacation, because your precious patch isn't done yet.
So what? Are devs only allowed to have vacation once their game is in pristine condition and fully done? What are they supposed to do? Cancel the vacation of their employees because something took longer than expected?
That might be doable for some indie devs, but this is a full-blown studio. In a country with quite a lot of vacation time, as most nordic countries have. And as most nordic countries, that vacation is usually in July or August. You can't just tell people to stay at work and cancel whatever they planned to do with their families
I wouldn't be surprised if Funcom Oslo team is working somewhat of a skeleton crew in July or August, that's pretty normal for IT companies (at least in Finland, so I guess it would be similar there).

Sorry, but the only in this case is you.

If at all, having vacation as normal - no matter the situation - is a commendable thing to do by Funcom, showing they value their employees at least somewhat.

Sounds like spoken by a civil servant, not a software developer. If you fail your milestones all the time and then insist on vacation you sooner or later go on eternal vacation.

 

[thesheeep]

So instead of rescheduling the vacation to after the patch (which they've been hyping for a few weeks now) is done and the game is at least somewhat stable and not a complete broken mess, let's fuck off for a month and get to it later. Sound logic.

Vacations and holidays are planned months in advance. What should they do? Cancel their flights, reservations, whatever else they had planned? This doesn't only affect the people working there, but their families, too.
This isn't some grand important milestone that the company future hangs on, it is a patch, FFS.

They could release a stream of hotfixes dealing with the most important issues instead of lumping everything in one megapatch that will most likely break just as many things. But wait, can't do that because of retarded console patch cycles.
How about at least patching the issues that are "fixed on testlive" before going off for a month, instead? I guess that's not an option too, because reasons.

I certainly agree with that. I don't really see the point in batching bugfixes together, those should be released on a more regular basis.
For consoles, they can do those gigantic patches, but I don't see a reason to do that for PC.
Eh... fucking consoles.

At least in the places I worked in, if someone went to the client with "oh there is that important thing I was telling you about for a month and that I was supposed to complete next week, but the company goes on vacation so I'll get back to it next month" they wouldn't work there much longer.

If you have a client, you likely signed some contract including milestones.
This isn't an important milestone, like the release of a game. It is a patch.

The game is shedding players left and right. You can't generate money with a dead game.

And a patch will totally turn the situation around. Right.
Releasing a patch a month sooner or later does not make or break a game. It's not like the game is utterly unplayable (or the reviews would be way worse).

Sounds like spoken by a civil servant, not a software developer. If you fail your milestones all the time and then insist on vacation you sooner or later go on eternal vacation.

If we were talking about a single person, sure.
But here we have a whole team of developers who afaik did not fail milestones all the time.
You also don't seem to get that this vacation is very likely company policy (again, it is normal for companies around here at least to have these months where most people take their vacations, usually to fit school holidays as well).
You don't just cancel that - and certainly not for a minor reason such as a patch.

It is truly incredible what kind of pathetic spoiled brats some people are.
People have a life outside work, they do not exist solely to please you. That is also true for game developers - except some indies, maybe. Some of those truly don't seem to have a life.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Sounds like spoken by a civil servant, not a software developer. If you fail your milestones all the time and then insist on vacation you sooner or later go on eternal vacation.

If we were talking about a single person, sure.
But here we have a whole team of developers who afaik did not fail milestones all the time.
You also don't seem to get that this vacation is very likely company policy (again, it is normal for companies around here at least to have these months where most people take their vacations, usually to fit school holidays as well).
You don't just cancel that - and certainly not for a minor reason such as a patch.

It is truly incredible what kind of pathetic spoiled brats some people are.
People have a life outside work, they do not exist solely to please you. That is also true for game developers - except some indies, maybe. Some of those truly don't seem to have a life.

The whole game industry is an industry of "spoiled brats", not just the gamers.

You are indeed a civil servant amirite? No one working in the free market would go from valid criticism of your own failures directly on the counteroffensive and call the customer "spoiled brat". One would at least excuse and offer a constructive solution. The only exception are supermarket cashiers but they are paid less than the dole and have nothing to lose.

 

[thesheeep]

You are indeed a civil servant amirite? No one working in the free market would go from valid criticism of your own failures directly on the counteroffensive and call the customer "spoiled brat". One would at least excuse and offer a constructive solution. The only exception are supermarket cashiers but they are paid less than the dole and have nothing to lose.

I am a rather well paid freelance software developer.
Sorry.
Didn't even work for any state, yet (not counting my civilian service after school). I don't think states work with freelancers, usually.

Where you are wrong is, as always, in thinking that the developer owes you anything.
There is no client/contractor relationship between a gamer and the game dev.
Of course it is in the developer's best interest to support a game well (especially one with a certain longevity), but there is a difference between "support well" and "cancel your fucking vacation, I want my patch".

 

[Burning Bridges]

If you fail your milestone you go on vacation and call your contractor "spoiled brat"?

Let me have your business card please Does it also have "We owe you nothing" over it?

 

[thesheeep]

If you fail your milestone you go on vacation and call your contractor "spoiled brat"?

I wouldn't take on any jobs that would endanger my planned vacation by having a milestone very close to it.
I also inform my clients months before of when I'll have a vacation. I do not even ask. Benefits of a freelancer.

Also, did you study under Makabb? Your reading comprehension is equally poor.
There is no client here that any contract was made with proclaiming delivery of a patch at date X.
There are just spoiled brats thinking that anyone owes them anything.
They probably thought it was a realistic date. It turned out not to be. Happens all the time. And in this case coincided with vacation time.

Which makes their mistake announcing the patch too early, tbh. I certainly wouldn't announce anything big close to vacation time...

Let me have your business card please Does it also have "We owe you nothing" over it?

Don't even have one! Thanks to LinkedIn, etc. those have kinda gone out of style.
People contact me, I did not ask for a job in 10 years.
I do like the slogan, though...

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Thanks to LinkedIn, etc. those have kinda gone out of style.

Not if you work in sales they haven't.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Now I get it, thesheeep wants to work at Funcom.

 

[thesheeep]

Yeah, probably should have added in IT.
There's just no need to. I don't even meet my clients in person much of the time.
Home office ftw!

 

[Burning Bridges]

ITT: freelance developers are spoiled brats

 

[Burning Bridges]

What I mean is: it's ok to think your customers are schmucks, as game developers do without exception.

But it's not ok to say it in public. And it does not become better by yelling either.

 

[thesheeep]

What I mean is: it's ok to think your customers are schmucks, as game developers do without exception.

But it's not ok to say it in public. And it does not become better by yelling either.

See, that's where I come in.
I say it so Funcom devs don't have to

Still doesn't change that it is true, though.
Lashing out because devs take their vacation instead of cancelling it to deliver a patch... come on.

However, I do agree that it is weird that they do not instead split the patch up into smaller parts and deliver what can be delivered before the vacation.
If we just had a dev here to clear that up... *caugh*

 

[Burning Bridges]

There was a funcom dev who called names a few pages back. He's just currently on vacation. So the cheap replacement jumps in.

 

[Helton]

Seems like a cultural clash. Not many companies have company-wide month+ long vacations in America (or most of the world, I imagine). This seems opulent, excessive, and even lazy. Add on to that a missed deadline (of any sort, doesn't matter its "just a patch") and I'll be honest my American brain is going into autistic shriek mode. I get that's their "culture" etc etc.

As another example, I know in some quadrants of the world it is the "culture" to be 2+ hours late for any and every event. Its hard for me to be friends with such people. I know they don't mean it, but every social interaction it seems like they don't respect me or my time, and even if they don't mean it, it still wastes my time.

Same thing here. Maybe they don't mean it to snub the customer, but that's how it comes across. If an American company did this, that is what it would mean. It would mean they didn't respect or value their customers. So they don't mean it. Fine. Still, I'd rather not be a consumer of their products.

 

[bylam]

There was a funcom dev who called names a few pages back. He's just currently on vacation. So the cheap replacement jumps in.

Actually, BB, you'll mostly see me point out when people make up stupid shit about the reasons decisions were made (like they'd know).
I don't really get annoyed when people post their honest opinions of the game (as you did earlier and, for example, Blaine did) etc. People like/dislike different things and this is the codex after all.

As for vacation...Norwegian law mandates 3 weeks. And doing it in a single chunk makes a lot of sense rather than having key people away at different times.

As for the patch... we'll see. I'm not a betting man but the odds of it being out before vacation are high IMO.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Actually, BB, you'll mostly see me point out when people make up stupid shit about the reasons decisions were made (like they'd know).

Yes. But everyone thinks that about himself.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Seems like a cultural clash. Not many companies have company-wide month+ long vacations in America (or most of the world, I imagine). This seems opulent, excessive, and even lazy. Add on to that a missed deadline (of any sort, doesn't matter its "just a patch") and I'll be honest my American brain is going into autistic shriek mode. I get that's their "culture" etc etc.

As another example, I know in some quadrants of the world it is the "culture" to be 2+ hours late for any and every event. Its hard for me to be friends with such people. I know they don't mean it, but every social interaction it seems like they don't respect me or my time, and even if they don't mean it, it still wastes my time.

Same thing here. Maybe they don't mean it to snub the customer, but that's how it comes across. If an American company did this, that is what it would mean. It would mean they didn't respect or value their customers. So they don't mean it. Fine. Still, I'd rather not be a consumer of their products.

That is not even the problem. The problem is to plan for these things on your side and deliver the work to the planned time, before the holiday starts. That people have vacation is nothing that should matter on the client's side. It doesn't matter if you make 3, 12 or 36 weeks of vacation, you just make sure yourself you have enough people doing enough productive work. And if I may say, as software developer it's my duty to deliver a working software before I dissapear into my private life. Not niff off and inform everyone that you have hoiliday. That is the behavior of children, not adults.

And here we come to the point, in this respect Skandinavian companies are driving me totally nuts. (I am not blaming Funcom, actually up to this point I didn't even know they were Skandinavian). But Expansive Worlds (The Hunter) is possibly the worst example of procrastinating I have ever seen. That's something I like about American's though. They do business like adults, not spoilt children. An American boss does not want to listen why you couldn't do something. If he hears that too many times, you'll be fired. Instead all he wants to hear is "it will be fixed by XY" and that not just empty words.

P.S American's (not Canadians = Hinterland Games the #2 procrastinating company behind EW)

 

[thesheeep]

Seems like a cultural clash. Not many companies have company-wide month+ long vacations in America (or most of the world, I imagine). This seems opulent, excessive, and even lazy. Add on to that a missed deadline (of any sort, doesn't matter its "just a patch") and I'll be honest my American brain is going into autistic shriek mode. I get that's their "culture" etc etc.

Well, I guess there is a reason happiness is the largest in nordic and South American countries (and Bhutan !), while the only thing rising in the US are suicide rates and drug consumption.
Lot of good that "business" mentality is doing you.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Dude, who do you think gives a shit how happy you are? The question was why they did not deliver 500 badly needed fixes while still trying to sell a game with "mixed" rating at 30$. This is not the thread wether Scandinavians claim to be the most happy people in the world. I have seen them in millions in Spain where they seem to spend 1/2 year so all I know is a) Skandinavia fucking sucks and b) only half the population there is working at all

 

[Zombra]

I'd like to see a citation of the announcement that the patch is being delayed. They're not missing some kind of "milestone" or deadline here, are they? They're taking longer to do something because vacations mean things take longer.

 

[thesheeep]

I'd like to see a citation of the announcement that the patch is being delayed. They're not missing some kind of "milestone" or deadline here, are they? They're taking longer to do something because vacations mean things take longer.

Forget logic here.
Gamers are entitled to their timely patches. Work ethics just get in the way.

Also, yeah, I just saw the announcement on Steam that the patch might just make it in time, so ...
first they planned the patch to hit before their vacation, then they say "we won't make it", now they say "but we might!".
More and more I get the feeling there is some serious communication disarray going on.