RTS Command & Conquer Remastered Collection from Petroglyph

[roguefrog]

I played through C&C and Red Alert + expansion missions a couple years ago with the remaster. Some random observations...

C&C Covert Ops has some serious bullshit. Mario lost levels kind of bullshit. Also the hard mode added to the OG C&C is not good. All it does is mainly increase the damage enemy units do while decreasing the damage your units do. It's simply cheating in that you can have the same tank but the AIs will always win...I'd wager the AI tank can still win vs two of the same tanks on hard. The AI already cheats by getting max funds with a single harvester load (which means all silos filled to the max/easily exploited).

They also didn't fix the bug where you blow up a building with the commando and a infantry unit can still spawn and shoot the commando for unavoidable damage...

Red Alert is still silly in that you can dodge projectiles. Also the default speeds felt too fast.

There's one unique expansion mission in Red Alert where there's an actual dialog section between units (your spy). It's so weird they only ever do that once. Also the escape section after that is bullshit. You have to run back to the transport while being chased by a pack of dogs and you can only make it in under fractions of seconds + RNG. Took over a dozen attempts.

The N64 exclusive missions aren't anything to write home about. Terrible cutscenes though from the early 3D era. Although one of the PS2 exclusive missions has the most aggressive AI I've ever seen in any mission. As soon as you start building your base they constantly send waves at you and never let up. How the hell did console players with their crane operator controls beat that mission?

 

[Hellraiser]

Tiberian Sun with true high resolution, not AI upscaled, FMVs from the master tapes I think they found back when they looked for the (unfortunately lost) TD and RA1 master tapes would be fucking great.

 

[ArchAngel]

OG Command and Conquer is just as much of a pixel hunt as I remember it being. Say what you will about the later installments beyond tiberian sun, but at least you don't have to comb the map moving at agonizingly slow speeds trying to hunt down the last SAM site someone put in a corner somewhere.

Still, I'm enjoying it, it's great fun and nostalgia, and still better than 90% of all modern games. Plus, now I'm realizing all the crazy pioneering shit they did back in the 90s. At some point I'll have to play the grandaddy of all RTSs, Dune 2. Probably won't have a chance/or the interest to test Herzog Zwei.

UI was terrible. If I remember well there was no multi select, you had to move each unit one by one :D
I remember due to that I would just move everyone 2 tiles by 2 tiles in a line until I reached enemy base lol

EDIT: or maybe I am mistaking that with no ability to have groups of units..

 

[Hellraiser]

ArchAngel, no, you are correct, it didn't have multi-select, wouldn't be surprised if it was due to pathfinding being too much of a bitch to implement for such a case without a noticeable stuttering on the CPUs of the time.

IIRC Warcraft 1 dunked on Dune 2 regarding this by allowing you to select 4 units, much innovation, such improvement, 400% the control.... Only for C&C: TD to embarrass Blizzard with a feat of multiple selection it could not match until Starcraft 2 came out, and it took the lead designer of RA2 leading also SC2's development and no doubt bringing in his arcane knowledge for that to happen.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Dune 2 didn't have multiselect and I finished it without a mouse back then O_o Sonic tanks were a menace.

First group select came with Warcraft 1 and it was 4 units at a time.

 

[Dayyālu]

Still, I'm enjoying it, it's great fun and nostalgia, and still better than 90% of all modern games. Plus, now I'm realizing all the crazy pioneering shit they did back in the 90s. At some point I'll have to play the grandaddy of all RTSs, Dune 2. Probably won't have a chance/or the interest to test Herzog Zwei.

Dune 2 still holds up, I'd say better than expected. Also, Herzog Zwei isn't exactly the first RTS, it's merely a truism that got repeated so often it became "common knowledge".

The situation in the 80ies was a tad more complex, proto-RTS are a fascinating subject, our ValeVelKal wrote about it on his retro blog:

https://zeitgame.net/archives/5036

 

[Blake00]

Oh man those classic controls in Dune 2 lol.. These days I generally play Dune 2 via Dune Dynasty engine (& sometimes Dune Legacy engine) as they use the original graphics but allow modern resolutions and controls like drawing boxes around groups of units. Plus they support the fan addon Super Dune 2 and Dune 2 eXtended campaigns (Fremen, Sardukar & Mercs) as well which are quite fun to play.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Dune had a Genesis port, which was in fact how I discovered the game, via an emulator.

 

[cvv]

Dune 2 still holds up, I'd say

I wouldn't. Decades ago I played millions of hours of Dune 2, hard to explain today what a revelation it was back in the day. Also them Westwood production values, all the dudes with new Soundblasters were feeling the pride mangh.

But it didn't age well. Like, at all. Today it feels extremely simple and barebones, the lack of multiselect is just one of many problems. Warcraft 1 was shit and a total meme back in the day but the progress that came with Warcraft 2 and Starcraft 1 and C&C games left Dune 2 in the dust.

Btw, about six, seven years ago I replayed Dune 1 and it holds WAY better than Dune 2, just saying.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

dune 2000 was the bee's knees

 

[Caim]

Can't we have simple, fun, action packed RTS like this pretty please?

Nope, because those are harder to monetize to hell and back.

But if you want more RTS, Petroglyph (the Empire at War people) released the more elaborate sequel to their 8 Bit Armies out of early access a few weeks ago:



It's got good reviews, but the voxel style graphics might be an automatic pass. It does have a Frank Klepacki soundtrack, which you can get for 2 cents more.

 

[Hellraiser]

Dune had a Genesis port, which was in fact how I discovered the game, via an emulator.

The soundtrack is nice despite them using GEMS apparently which gets a rather bad rap as far as Genesis sound drivers/engines go. Also really good sound effects and even voice samples that aren't utter gibberish mixed with stutter.



Of course the PC soundtrack on a Roland MT-32 stomps it into the ground, but that's kind of obvious given it's the fucking Roland MT-32.

 

[ArchAngel]

Can't we have simple, fun, action packed RTS like this pretty please?

Nope, because those are harder to monetize to hell and back.

But if you want more RTS, Petroglyph (the Empire at War people) released the more elaborate sequel to their 8 Bit Armies out of early access a few weeks ago:



It's got good reviews, but the voxel style graphics might be an automatic pass. It does have a Frank Klepacki soundtrack, which you can get for 2 cents more.

more elaborate in what way?

 

[Caim]

Can't we have simple, fun, action packed RTS like this pretty please?

Nope, because those are harder to monetize to hell and back.

But if you want more RTS, Petroglyph (the Empire at War people) released the more elaborate sequel to their 8 Bit Armies out of early access a few weeks ago:



It's got good reviews, but the voxel style graphics might be an automatic pass. It does have a Frank Klepacki soundtrack, which you can get for 2 cents more.

more elaborate in what way?

More units, bigger battles, the inclusion of naval combat, troopers being able to use boats but at the risk of this happening:

This is only one of two RTS games I can think of where being mauled by sharks is a legitimate concern.

 

[Alienman]

The Dune game art is one of my favorite pieces when it comes to gaming-related artwork. Very atmospheric, and gets the noggin' joggin'.

 

[ArchAngel]

Can't we have simple, fun, action packed RTS like this pretty please?

Nope, because those are harder to monetize to hell and back.

But if you want more RTS, Petroglyph (the Empire at War people) released the more elaborate sequel to their 8 Bit Armies out of early access a few weeks ago:



It's got good reviews, but the voxel style graphics might be an automatic pass. It does have a Frank Klepacki soundtrack, which you can get for 2 cents more.

more elaborate in what way?

More units, bigger battles, the inclusion of naval combat, troopers being able to use boats but at the risk of this happening:

This is only one of two RTS games I can think of where being mauled by sharks is a legitimate concern.

Like sharks are going to be attacking military rubber boats.. those are not made of paper..

 

[kyosuke]

Still, I'm enjoying it, it's great fun and nostalgia, and still better than 90% of all modern games. Plus, now I'm realizing all the crazy pioneering shit they did back in the 90s. At some point I'll have to play the grandaddy of all RTSs, Dune 2. Probably won't have a chance/or the interest to test Herzog Zwei.

Dune 2 still holds up

I still remember Dune 2 as the game my Dad stayed up overnight playing on the Genesis for weeks to complete the map for all 3 factions.

 

[Storyfag]

dune 2000 was the bee's knees

 

[Alienman]

Anyone played that 3D Dune RTS that came out a bit later? The FMVs look great, but not sure about the gameplay and visuals.

 

[jebsmoker]

yeah i got emperor: battle for dune as a birthday present and played it a lot

it has *all* of westwood's rts design tropes, including the more polarizing ones. if you don't like specific design quirks from westwood's rts games, you won't like it

 

[Cyberarmy]

Anyone played that 3D Dune RTS that came out a bit later? The FMVs look great, but not sure about the gameplay and visuals.

It was kinda like Generals but less fun. But I like it a lot, got really nice roster with lots of little factions to ally and still fun in multiplayer.

 

[Storyfag]

Anyone played that 3D Dune RTS that came out a bit later? The FMVs look great, but not sure about the gameplay and visuals.

It is my favourite iteration. The three Houses are completely unique, sharing only the harvester and scout units. The gameplay is typical Westwood. Build your base, harvest the Spice, build an army, etc. The visuals are great.

 

[catfood]

dune 2000 was the bee's knees

It was the bee's knees back in 1994. Oh wait, it was released in 1998 after Starcraft, Total Annihilation, Age of Empires, and Dark Reign. LMAO! Garbage cash grab game to milk dunefags of their money.

 

[Hellraiser]

dune 2000 was the bee's knees

It was the bee's knees back in 1994. Oh wait, it was released in 1998 after Starcraft, Total Annihilation, Age of Empires, and Dark Reign. LMAO! Garbage cash grab game to milk dunefags of their money.

I wish we got more cash grabs meant to milk consoomers like it, with low budget TV show quality FMVs, Frank Klepacki music from his creative peak, quality 2D art assets and classic westwood RTS gameplay.

Back in the day the criticism Dune 2000 (and to a lesser degree also Tiberian Sun, for roughly the same reasons) got made sense, the genre and gaming could only get better, right? Surely people will succesfully copy the innovations of Starcraft and Total Annihilation or push the genre into new directions of incline. If only....

Nowadays I see it as a nice B-tier RTS to play when I want that classic gameplay, similar to KKND2 it is a good enough C&C clone that doesn't do much, if anything, special or innovative.

 

[Storyfag]

dune 2000 was the bee's knees

It was the bee's knees back in 1994. Oh wait, it was released in 1998 after Starcraft, Total Annihilation, Age of Empires, and Dark Reign. LMAO! Garbage cash grab game to milk dunefags of their money.

I wish we got more cash grabs meant to milk consoomers like it, with low budget TV show quality FMVs, Frank Klepacki music from his creative peak, quality 2D art assets and classic westwood RTS gameplay.

Back in the day the criticism Dune 2000 (and to a lesser degree also Tiberian Sun, for roughly the same reasons) got made sense, the genre and gaming could only get better, right? Surely people will succesfully copy the innovations of Starcraft and Total Annihilation or push the genre into new directions of incline. If only....

Nowadays I see it as a nice B-tier RTS to play when I want that classic gameplay, similar to KKND2 it is a good enough C&C clone that doesn't do much, if anything, special or innovative.

My only criticism of D2000 is that it copied D2 too closely. After the heavily assymetrical factions of TibDawn and RA, the Great Houses were severely lacking in variety. Also, the lack of controllable aircraft was a big letdown after TibDawn and RA.