Incline Colony Ship RELEASE THREAD

[Vault Dweller]

I also remember Vince lamenting picking up the Torque engine and that it was an endless source of pain. He also said in 2008, I think it was, that he'd have all the combat systems done that year, seemingly being optimistic about releasing the game somewhat soon. Final release was in 2015.

Why did they pick a pain in the ass engine that they're not experienced with? The result is better than the pic you posted but I can't but wonder.

It was that or nothing.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm not saying your game was a commercial failure or a flop, I am asking if the business model makes any sense when a game like Grimrock 2 can sell well and still not warrant a sequel.

It won't take long for Colony Ship to reach LoG 2 sales.

It makes me think that there was never any long-term hope for the genre and that both Troika and Interplay was doomed to fail from the onset, because despite making games that consistently rank in the top ten section of people's favorite RPG or even video game lists, the cost was immense and would have kept going up as production values and player expectations went up. Troika made three of the best RPGs of all time and folded, even if there's a poetic rhyme to it with their company name, I don't think that was their intention starting it up. Later on your answers seem to indicate that you don't think it's an issue, but here you seem aware of it and that you have gained some understanding of it.

Interplay bet on the consoles and lost, Troika got fucked by the publishers. Had Steam been around back then, Troika would still be around and doing well.

 

[GuiltyofBeingTrite]

Can you share what percentage sales you’ve had with Steam vs. GoG?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Can you share what percentage sales you’ve had with Steam vs. GoG?

I suspect such things are frowned upon.

 

[Zanzoken]

[Colony Ship] is paying off, it's just not generating enough to pay for a full-scale project. Two very different things. I used this example before: Legend of Grimrock 2: 2,600 reviews, 91% reviews, yet not enough to pay for LoG3. Back then, I wondered why. Now I get it.

No. As stated earlier, Colony Ship *is* selling better than AoD. Stronger sales in EA, stronger launch, stronger first 3 months, stronger first 6 months.

I am struggling to understand your reasoning because it seems like the two statements above conflict with each other.

From what I recall the development for CS was a 7-year project to release (not counting Early Access) where you made everything new from scratch, plus had to learn the Unreal engine. You've always stated that the current game's revenue is what sets the budget for the next game, which I would take to mean AoD (plus DR) sold enough to fund all of this.

Now you have an engine you're used to working in, plus all the code and assets from CS that should be reusable, at least in part, for a direct sequel. And you say CS has sold better than AoD+DR.

In other words, if you are making more money than before, and your next game will have a shorter development cycle, then how does that equate to you going out of business?

 

[Technomancer]

Now you have an engine you're used to working in, plus all the code and assets from CS that should be reusable, at least in part, for a direct sequel. And you say CS has sold better than AoD+DR.

In other words, if you are making more money than before, and your next game will have a shorter development cycle, then how does that equate to you going out of business?

You don't know much strife and struggle it cost. When you do not have enough money to cover most bases, your only option is to pretty much get stuck in relentless crunch for years. And trim the game. That's not sustainable long term. For the next game they need to expand the team, hire more contractors for new unique assets, make more possible, otherwise its not worth it to even attempt again. Will work yourself to the grave while compromising each step on the way. CS had cuts too. Like the Breach text heavy open space exploration area and the space suit that never made it past early concept stage, punch weapons and fist fighting had to go after animator died, at one point the robot itself was on the cutting room floor. Even then, its clear it was downscaled to a limited tool from a proper companion like original design diaries implied. And this stuff is on the surface, common knowledge, I am sure there were various other things behind the scenes. It fucking sucks when you have to carve up your dreams and ambitions to make the ends meet.

 

[Vault Dweller]

From what I recall the development for CS was a 7-year project to release (not counting Early Access)

Including EA.

You've always stated that the current game's revenue is what sets the budget for the next game, which I would take to mean AoD (plus DR) sold enough to fund all of this.

From another post:

"I assume that some people look at it this way: AoD sold enough to pay for the next game (Colony Ship), if CS doesn't sell enough to pay for the next game, it must have failed.

In reality AoD didn't sell all that well (which is why we didn't make AoD 2) and paid for 50% of Colony Ship's budget. Some of this shortfall was relatively 'easy' to fix - work longer hours and weekends for 7 years, how hard could it be? Others - not so much. In 2020 we had enough money only to pay the contractors and not the core team. We had to compromise at every step and constantly settle for less simply because we didn't have enough money and manpower. It wears you down more than anything else.

The tentative sequel will require a bigger team and a bigger budget. Nothing crazy but at least one extra designer to share the workload (more like to make it easier to breathe for the rest of us) and more contractors (art and 3D). Probably 25% more overall.

Colony Ship would probably generate 60% of that increased budget, meaning we expect it to sell 40-50% more than AoD. The problem is, it won't be enough and neither KS not Patreon will make up for the difference."

Now you have an engine you're used to working in, plus all the code and assets from CS that should be reusable, at least in part, for a direct sequel. And you say CS has sold better than AoD+DR.

From another post:

"1) We can reuse most of the human-related assets: character models, animations, weapons and armor (obviously there would be new weapons and armor reflecting the rapidly evolving situation on the ground), tilesets, objects, etc. That's a big plus.

The real challenge in terms of art will come from the natives' culture. Literally everything, from architecture and furniture to livestock and industrial objects (not to mention the natives themselves, their clothing, weapons, and armor) would have to be defined (concept art) and 3D modelled. Neither is cheap.

I hope we all agree that the alien planet and culture should look and feel appropriately alien and not 'made for TV' humans pretending to be aliens.

2) We need to expand the team. We might be able to pull it off without a second programmer (we started Colony Ship with two programmers but lost one after two years to higher wages and greener pastures) or a second writer (would be nice), but we definitely need another level designer and/or someone to handle extra scripting, which is probably our biggest bottleneck.

Take two skilled people, multiply their salaries by 5 years. That alone is a lot more than what we can get on Kickstarter."

 

[Zanzoken]

Thanks for the insightful reply. I hope my post didn't come across as questioning your business acumen or anything like that. You guys have put forth a hell of an effort and made great games as a result.

Hope you're able to catch a break and keep the studio going, if that's something you want to do.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Not at all, and thank you.

 

[Kev Inkline]

Make the sequel ASCII, the asset problem solved.

You'll get $30 at least from me.

 

[AwesomeButton]

It's worth noting that even as Larian ramped up their production values over time to reach a bigger and bigger audience they kept co-op as a big selling point since their Original Sin series began, and this contributed heavily towards their sales.

The cost of keeping a feature may well be less than that of removing it.

The more veteran a developer is the more likely she is to take an axe to the project and remove what is taking too long, or doesn't work right, or that would cost too much.

I will ask this of you virtual VD: does it feel like CS's Habitat "works right"?

 

[AwesomeButton]

The problem is, it won't be enough and neither KS not Patreon will make up for the difference."

Thank you for this. I've seen what it is having to play a game designed under the constraints of crowdfunding goals funded, it's not worth it for me as a player.

 

[lukaszek]

VD can always sell dlcs like '5 emp grenades - 10usd'

 

[AwesomeButton]

I legit lol'ed when I read the request for romances in CS. I think that's a compliment on the writing of the dialogues, more than anything else. It's definetly a world I'd like to learn more about, and that's how the guy could express the same curiosity.

I think a major factor hampering sales is the setting being sci-fi. Someone had quoted statistics, probably even VD, that elven maids in chainmail always sell better than sci-fi.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I think a major factor hampering sales...

Compared to what though? If we take AoD as a baseline of what our games sell, then Colony Ship is way ahead. It sold more in 6 months than AoD in the first year (and AoD had a strong media support and more front page exposure).

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Make the sequel ASCII, the asset problem solved.

You'll get $30 at least from me.

Ok but then he'd need to finish the game in a budget of, say, 25 dorra?

 

[AwesomeButton]

I think a major factor hampering sales...

Compared to what though? If we take AoD as a baseline of what our games sell, then Colony Ship is way ahead. It sold more in 6 months than AoD in the first year (and AoD had a strong media support and more front page exposure).

I was making an ironic joke, that generic fantasy might have even paid for a sequel. Ofc if you were making something generic, you need a disproportionately large budget up front. The difference between "cliche" and "classic" is how well it's being presented.

 

[motherfucker]

I also remember Vince lamenting picking up the Torque engine and that it was an endless source of pain. He also said in 2008, I think it was, that he'd have all the combat systems done that year, seemingly being optimistic about releasing the game somewhat soon. Final release was in 2015.

Why did they pick a pain in the ass engine that they're not experienced with? The result is better than the pic you posted but I can't but wonder.

What the fuck else was there back in 2008 you dumbfuck zoomer?

 

[Üstad]

I also remember Vince lamenting picking up the Torque engine and that it was an endless source of pain. He also said in 2008, I think it was, that he'd have all the combat systems done that year, seemingly being optimistic about releasing the game somewhat soon. Final release was in 2015.

Why did they pick a pain in the ass engine that they're not experienced with? The result is better than the pic you posted but I can't but wonder.

What the fuck else was there back in 2008 you dumbfuck zoomer?

Not a zoomer, I'm just not a gamedev nerd and I wasn't even into RPGs back then. Being unnecessarily aggressive doesn't make you more knowledged, don't act dumb.

 

[Litmanen]

I also remember Vince lamenting picking up the Torque engine and that it was an endless source of pain. He also said in 2008, I think it was, that he'd have all the combat systems done that year, seemingly being optimistic about releasing the game somewhat soon. Final release was in 2015.

Why did they pick a pain in the ass engine that they're not experienced with? The result is better than the pic you posted but I can't but wonder.

What the fuck else was there back in 2008 you dumbfuck zoomer?

Not a zoomer, I'm just not a gamedev nerd and I wasn't even into RPGs back then. Being unnecessarily aggressive doesn't make you more knowledged, don't act dumb.

Kindness is a rare commodity around here. After 8000 messages, I believe you know that very well

 

[d1nolore]

Have you considered selling a kidney? Though the Chinese have really been flooding the market, not as profitable as once was.

 

[Daedalos]

Doesn't it just grind your gears, that a project like CS is so worthy of a AAA budget, yet is painfully underfunded and full of troubles and bad luck, and companies still churn out COMPLETE garbage AAA shit games with millions on the budget?

Starfield? Diablo 4? Why are clueless management and seemingly devs always at the helm of big budgets and promising franchises?

Imagine... just imagine if Vince and his team had like 50 million in the bank, and what kind of game would COULD have gotten (and what we got is already amazing)... its just... fuck man. WHY!? is the world unfair and fucked.

Anyway, I *STILL* have't played this game yet, becuase I want my first experience to be as good as possible, and Vince and his team has already improved the game with patches and more coming in 2024, it's great.

I'm edging on, delaying my orgasm until who knows at some point 2024 when the biggest content patches of CS are done and released?

Let's put a SMILE on that face.

 

[Technomancer]

who knows at some point 2024 when the biggest content patches of CS are done and released?

They will support the game until the end of the year so might as well wait for final version at this point.

 

[Alienman]

Psst, X-com spinoff.

 

[Daedalos]

who knows at some point 2024 when the biggest content patches of CS are done and released?

They will support the game until the end of the year so might as well wait for final version at this point.

Exactly my thoughts. It's hard tho, like a beautiful girl on your bed, naked, u wanna fuck her... but wait.. it gets better. Her hot girlfriend is also joining later if you wait.