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Vapourware Codexian Game Development Thread

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,064
I am still just a novice when it comes to 3D modeling, but I think I can explain the basics.

3D models are built from polygons. A polygon is simple geometry like triangles and quads which are made up of vertices, edges, and faces.
The polygons all joined together create the surface of a model, called the mesh or wireframe.

pV3hu0y.png


However models that are more detailed are usually 3D sculpted first.
Sculpting is exactly what it sounds like... taking basic shapes like cubes and cylinders and expertly crafting them into highly detailed art.

vQL24y6.png


It's important to note that sculpted models are still made out of polygons. They just use very large amounts of them to achieve the fine level of detail.
Here I have zoomed way in on the 3D sculpt so you can see it's still a mesh. It just uses a ton of polygons (7.5M in this case) to create a very fine and detailed mesh.

4mzlk5T.png


The problem with sculpted models is that their very high polygon counts make them unfit for use in games. It's simply not possible to render so many polygons in a performant way.
Luckily there is a way to preserve the detail on these sculpted or "high-poly" meshes and transfer it over to lower polygon count or "low-poly" meshes that will work in games.
The first step is using a process called retopology to create a low-poly mesh that is similar in shape to the high-poly.
Here is an example of a low-poly mesh next to the corresponding high-poly.

MCOcxtS.png


The second step is to bake the detail of the high-poly mesh into a normal map, which is a texture that has "normals" or lighting data for each pixel in the texture.
Normal maps are how we transfer the detail from the high-poly onto the low-poly, to make the low-poly look much more detailed than it actually is.
Here you can see a low-poly on the left next to a high-poly. The top comparison is smooth shaded using only the model's geometry, but the bottom is what you get with the normal map applied.

rYMUDJE.png


Last thing I will mention is you can find interactive 3D models where the inspector tool allows you to look at each component of the model individually (like the mesh, different parts of the material, etc) so you can see how they fit together to make the final model.

Here is one I found for the Northgard model I posted above. https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/viking-65f708016bae4fbabd96d41b401d592c

Hope this helps!
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,064
After my current 2D game I would like to try a 3D with PS2 graphics like

17-8syINy9.png
11.jpg


Is it even possible for a single human being to make these PS2 graphics or should I just forget about it and stay 2D?

Also to answer your question, I think it's feasible to achieve this level of fidelity completely on your own, but if you are starting from scratch with no art background then it would be a lot of work.

The approach I am taking with my game is to use store assets for my environments, and then hiring an artist to do all of the character art.
But it depends on your project. Mine is about gladiator combat, so the characters are the #1 priority and need to be top notch.

My environment art on the other hand doesn't need to be super detailed, especially since my game is top-down and won't be seen up close anyway. So I think I can get away with store assets, and just tweaking them by hand as necessary. It's not that difficult to learn how to make a barrel or simple things like that in Blender if you're working in a lower poly style.
 

Yuber

Educated
Joined
Aug 17, 2023
Messages
204
Thanks, what software is there to use? Blender?
I am getting bored of Java and libGDX so I would like the game to be in C++.
Anyone know something similar to libgdx just for C++ and 3D? And I wonder if you can even port it to console, I will check google.

EDIT: How do you even make maps in 3D and load them? For 2D I could just use TiledMapEditor, is there something like this too?
Found this for Godot at least


I was just thinking I need a lot of 3D Monsters too, unless you can buy some ready ones I will not be able to make a 3D game all by myself fuck
 
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Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,064
Blender is popular among indies and hobbyists because it is free and like a Swiss army knife in that it can do modeling, sculpting, materials, animation, etc.

I think industry professionals tend to prefer more specialized tools, such as Zbrush for sculpting, 3DS Max or Maya for modeling and animation, Substance for creating materials, etc.

But unless you're trying to be a professional artist then just go with Blender.
 
Developer
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
2,288
Thanks, what software is there to use? Blender?
I am getting bored of Java and libGDX so I would like the game to be in C++.
Anyone know something similar to libgdx just for C++ and 3D? And I wonder if you can even port it to console, I will check google.

EDIT: How do you even make maps in 3D and load them? For 2D I could just use TiledMapEditor, is there something like this too?
Found this for Godot at least


I was just thinking I need a lot of 3D Monsters too, unless you can buy some ready ones I will not be able to make a 3D game all by myself fuck

What are you actually trying to make?

I would not go into it too deep unless you have to. That is to say, you may not need Blender or an Engine etc.

You could use Unity, its got a lot of premade content like monsters, https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/3d/characters/creatures/monster-full-pack-vol-1-165213

Also dungeon generators https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/templates/systems/dungeon-generator-3d-182354

So with Unity and similar engines you could make a game in a day....that looks like its been made in a day (kind of like Pompi's stuff).

It all depends, there are many factors. That's why I ask what you really want to make. Do you have a narrow idea of what you want to do?
 

Yuber

Educated
Joined
Aug 17, 2023
Messages
204
Thanks, what software is there to use? Blender?
I am getting bored of Java and libGDX so I would like the game to be in C++.
Anyone know something similar to libgdx just for C++ and 3D? And I wonder if you can even port it to console, I will check google.

EDIT: How do you even make maps in 3D and load them? For 2D I could just use TiledMapEditor, is there something like this too?
Found this for Godot at least


I was just thinking I need a lot of 3D Monsters too, unless you can buy some ready ones I will not be able to make a 3D game all by myself fuck

What are you actually trying to make?


JRPG with either fixed camera angle or semi-fixed like in Lost Odyssey. Turn Based Battle.
But just creating the graphics would at least take 1-2 years I think. Would need to do a lot of monster and bosses, character models, NPCs, weapons like sword,axe,bow,spear etc. Attack animations.

So idk, I need to check if maybe you can buy stuff like Equipment and then edit it to save time. Would probably take 4-5 years alone. Maybe better staying 2D idk yet.
 
Developer
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
2,288
Thanks, what software is there to use? Blender?
I am getting bored of Java and libGDX so I would like the game to be in C++.
Anyone know something similar to libgdx just for C++ and 3D? And I wonder if you can even port it to console, I will check google.

EDIT: How do you even make maps in 3D and load them? For 2D I could just use TiledMapEditor, is there something like this too?
Found this for Godot at least


I was just thinking I need a lot of 3D Monsters too, unless you can buy some ready ones I will not be able to make a 3D game all by myself fuck

What are you actually trying to make?


JRPG with either fixed camera angle or semi-fixed like in Lost Odyssey. Turn Based Battle.
But just creating the graphics would at least take 1-2 years I think. Would need to do a lot of monster and bosses, character models, NPCs, weapons like sword,axe,bow,spear etc. Attack animations.

So idk, I need to check if maybe you can buy stuff like Equipment and then edit it to save time. Would probably take 4-5 years alone. Maybe better staying 2D idk yet.

Depends on how unique you want it to be. And the amount of content in the game.

A few points:

Animations you can buy premade ones. e.g. https://www.mixamo.com/
Any (humanoid) models you make will need to be rigged with a skeleton to work with animations.
Humanoids can be built from premade 3D templates.
Lots of models can simply be assembled from premade 3D content.
So (in theory) you may not have to model that much in 3D, and can save a lot of time.

Personally I do not consider 3D games broadly to be worth making from scratch. One game I liked in particular (Tunguska, not that big a game) was made by a single dev and it took him 7 years to make it. He worked on it bit by bit everyday. So I think thats a timeframe you will be working with at a minimum.

I know of lots of other 3D games made by single devs but they always get extra help with the modelling, through outsourcing or buying premade assets.
 

Eisen

Learned
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Messages
750
Anyone know something similar to libgdx just for C++ and 3D? And I wonder if you can even port it to console, I will check google.
You want a C++ 3D framework?
Most of them are barebones, however, i think it is pretty simple to use Raylib for 3D.
 

Yuber

Educated
Joined
Aug 17, 2023
Messages
204
Anyone know something similar to libgdx just for C++ and 3D? And I wonder if you can even port it to console, I will check google.
You want a C++ 3D framework?
Most of them are barebones, however, i think it is pretty simple to use Raylib for 3D.
I guess I should use C# after reading more. I do not want to use Unity, I read Godot can do 3D, I will check this raylib out too.

Animations you can buy premade ones. e.g. https://www.mixamo.com/
Any (humanoid) models you make will need to be rigged with a skeleton to work with animations.
Humanoids can be built from premade 3D templates.
Lots of models can simply be assembled from premade 3D content.
So (in theory) you may not have to model that much in 3D, and can save a lot of time.

Thanks. I spent like 3-4 hours each day on game development so I will see how much progress I make.
I don't wanna spent 7 years on one game, then I rather make 2-3 2D games in that time.
 
Developer
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
2,288
My concern with 3d in particular is content creep. You may think you are undertaking a small project but actually its the work of 10 men. Getting the granularity of scope accurate really matters.
 

Morpheus Kitami

Liturgist
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
2,697

How are you making this? What program? Like how to you make fingers like this? Is it like tubes and rectangles to make these characters?
After my current 2D game I would like to try a 3D with PS2 graphics like
17-8syINy9.png
11.jpg


And how do you do the ground textures etc? I don't get how they made the trees i.e in FF 12.
Is it even possible for a single human being to make these PS2 graphics or should I just forget about it and stay 2D?
I'm no expert in PS2-era textures, however, if I were to start working on such things, I would find some PS2 textures and try to imitate those. I'm sure if you search PS2 texture resources you'd find something. Although that said, if you don't know anything about 3D modelling, you should probably look up how to start before doing anything else. (Though I think most books that get shilled on the subject are for that general era)
 

Twiglard

Poland Stronk
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
7,509
Location
Poland
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
I am getting bored of Java and libGDX so I would like the game to be in C++.
Anyone know something similar to libgdx just for C++ and 3D?
Magnum, but it's slightly more lowlevel. For example, you have to write your own sprite batch.
 

RobotSquirrel

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
2,125
Location
Adelaide
17-8syINy9.png
11.jpg


And how do you do the ground textures etc? I don't get how they made the trees i.e in FF 12.
Is it even possible for a single human being to make these PS2 graphics or should I just forget about it and stay 2D?
The example on the left has texture filtering like Bi-Linear or Tri-Linear filtering on textures. The Right example has no texture filtering (ie. Nearest Neighbour).
N64 games were notorious for their texture filtering, whilst it does give the games of that time a unique look, it also meant that those games would age poorly. Nearest Neighbour always ages better this is especially true for games from the PS1 catalogue that still hold up visually today - case in point Gran Turismo 1 and 2 the games still look good.

The image on the left you'd want to go with a very low resolution texture map. The image on the right you'd want to go a lot higher and emphasis on texture reuse by shifting UVs around (see the seam in the sand lot of older games tended to have static meshes as terrain rather than a proper terrain system like we have today).

Characters are going to be the hardest because rigging onto low poly can be uncomfortable, especially with bind weights and especially with facial rigging.
In the case of FF12 (right) they would use a lot of baked ambient occlusion to fake detail - this is very true for characters (see the muscles on the arm and also the fades in the hair).

I would pursue 3D if you're brave. If you're not, sticking to 2D is fine too and you'll probably have more fun overall. I like to move between the two depending on my mood. I'm more a perfectionist on my 3D games though so 2D is what I use as a means to relax. Hope this helps.
 

RobotSquirrel

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
2,125
Location
Adelaide
It's a PS2's game (Final Fantasy XII) and it has bilinear filtering, the jagged lines are from the low resolution, not from texture sampling
you're right, but it seems a lot more subtle than on most PS2 games which is why I barely noticed it.
I suspect there was a lot of fancy stuff with the renderer that gave it that unique look because I remember FF12 looking a lot sharper than what you'd expect from a game of this era. It looked very good for its time. But nearest Neighbour will always look the sharpest, you just have to make sure you've got the texture resolution to make it look nice.

https://www.textures-resource.com/playstation_2/finalfantasyxii/

This would be very helpful actually.
 

tomphonse

Educated
Patron
Joined
May 11, 2024
Messages
104
Location
New Zealand
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Are any of the UE devs in here familiar with the UE Angelscript fork?
It's a fork of UE that has a written scripting language that can be used instead of or in tandem with BP.
I was skeptical at first reading about it until I saw that It Takes Two, The Talos Principle 2, and The Finals were made using it.
It's actively maintained by a few big studios.
https://angelscript.hazelight.se/
 

tritosine2k

Erudite
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
1,712
The Right example has no texture filtering (ie. Nearest Neighbour).
It's a PS2's game (Final Fantasy XII) and it has bilinear filtering, the jagged lines are from the low resolution, not from texture sampling
Dude it's function of distance and sufficiently far is high frequency irregardless of texture res.
Therefore it's related rightly to nearest-n because high frequency is in place in bilinear too. That's the point.
 
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shihonage

DEVELOPER
Patron
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
7,183
Location
United States Of Azebarjan
Bubbles In Memoria
Added wall depth effect to "Mutant Gate" (formerly "Monsterland"). Felt like something like this was missing from the start, but couldn't figure out a way to do it with SDL 2D abstraction layer. In the end just went for the dumbest possible approach. Also, power-ups have a glow effect now.
 
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