Vapourware Codexian Game Development Thread

[Twiglard]

Did some more work since the last time.

• Allow recovery from errors during save parsing.
• Initial work
  
  (⟸ click me) on collision meshes for passability. Decided to use the loose quadtree data structure for this purpose. Or rather several, one for each passability value. I'm going to make personalized collision boxes for each individual piece of scenery, but they need to have their sizes fixed first. I decided against storing passability information inside the individual tiles.
• Batch together scenery atlas writes. Scenery can't be ordered using the depth buffer, and only non-animated scenery can be batched. So the code goes through the static scenery buffer and only sends a draw once the texture changes, or there's an animated scenery piece in between. This gave me a headache but finally works. Eventually I'm going to merge small pieces of static scenery into one physical image, all the while having them register separately inside the editor.

 

[Tavernking]

I am finally ready to reveal my secret project! A first person Skyrim-like using the DND 3.5 ruleset in a procedurally generated world. The game plays more like a life simulator, taking you from a young pimpley teenager into a bearded veteran hero. You can run busineses, get married to elven maiden, etc.
free demo here

 

[rap2h]

Can't access the url Tavernking ... COuld you check the access? I would be glad to test the game!!

 

[Tavernking]

I am finally ready to reveal my secret project! A first person Skyrim-like using the DND 3.5 ruleset in a procedurally generated world. The game plays more like a life simulator, taking you from a young pimpley teenager into a bearded veteran hero. You can run busineses, get married to elven maiden, etc.
free demo here

Just wanted to check it out and the site showed this:

message

Hmm, strange. I guess the only conclusion from this is that my game is entirely fabricated and I’ve been spending my time watching star trek and playing neverwinter nights.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Finally released my latest game on GOG.

Now I can brag about the one and true success™.

 

[Zanzoken]

What would be your initial impression of an RPG that had graphics like this?



I think it's a decent, functional style as a whole, but the big thing that's missing is variety and detail of character faces.

I wonder if it might also be overall too cartoonish for some players, and feel tonally dissonant if your game has serious themes.

 

[Modron]

I should have keys from a bundle to:
https://syntystore.com/products/polygon-farm-pack
https://syntystore.com/products/polygon-city-pack
https://assetstore.unity.com/packag...gon-prototype-low-poly-3d-art-by-synty-137126

If you wanted to test the waters.

 

[Zanzoken]

Cheers Modron I am just gathering info for now, but might take you up on that at some point.

I am thinking this style might be appropriate for a Mount & Blade clone I want to make. From what I can tell, the various packs cover 99% of the assets you'd need for a game like that. I'm just not sure if people would see it and immediately dismiss the game as a shitty mobile port or something.

 

[what am i doing]

What would be your initial impression of an RPG that had graphics like this?



I think it's a decent, functional style as a whole, but the big thing that's missing is variety and detail of character faces.

I wonder if it might also be overall too cartoonish for some players, and feel tonally dissonant if your game has serious themes.

My opinion is that if you're going to go low-poly I'd rather you go with Thief type visuals, ie VERY low poly but with good textures / art direction. I don't much like the appearance of the linked video - there's an overt amount of model complexity, but lacking in adequate texture detail. A lot of things that could just be handled as textures are instead geometric shapes / subsets of a model's geometry. IE, the cross on the shield is given its own vertices and flat colours, and the shield itself has flat colours. You could instead have a much more simple (geometrically) shield but with a texture that includes the cross and perhaps a bit more material detail on the shield rather than being flat white.

At the same time, I suspect that making nice textures for everything is a lot more work than just making the sort of, I guess I'd call it "complex low poly" style in the video with flat colours. Even if you're putting the nice textures on very simple models.

I dunno, I favour texture detail over model detail, generally speaking, but the more important thing in this case, I think is "what's viable". If you can afford to just buy asset packs, and alternatives like good textures would either cost too much to have done or be more of a workload than you could do yourself, then you go with the asset packs because the alternative is to not get the game done at all. On the other hand if going "simple low poly" with better textures is equally viable from a cost/labour perspective, I think it's the better option.

Note however that I am not suggesting that this is the way to go for commercial success or that it is the dominant market trend. I don't know what is - I'd say because "complex low poly" seems fairly common that it must be the more popular way to go, but I don't know if the many "complex low poly" games are actually meeting financial success, so really, I don't know. When I say I prefer "simple low poly" with good textures & art direction, I am solely speaking for my own personal preferences, not a trend, nor what I think is a better design decision, just what I personally prefer to see in a game.

 

[Tavernking]

I would immediately assume it's a soulless low-effort game if you use such a popular art asset bundle like that. A game comes out on Steam every day that uses synty assets. Sorry but that's the honest answer.

 

[what am i doing]

Tavernking, you don't like Thief or something?

 

[Zanzoken]

My opinion is that if you're going to go low-poly I'd rather you go with Thief type visuals, ie VERY low poly but with good textures / art direction. I don't much like the appearance of the linked video - there's an overt amount of model complexity, but lacking in adequate texture detail. A lot of things that could just be handled as textures are instead geometric shapes / subsets of a model's geometry. IE, the cross on the shield is given its own vertices and flat colours, and the shield itself has flat colours. You could instead have a much more simple (geometrically) shield but with a texture that includes the cross and perhaps a bit more material detail on the shield rather than being flat white.

At the same time, I suspect that making nice textures for everything is a lot more work than just making the sort of, I guess I'd call it "complex low poly" style in the video with flat colours. Even if you're putting the nice textures on very simple models.

I dunno, I favour texture detail over model detail, generally speaking, but the more important thing in this case, I think is "what's viable". If you can afford to just buy asset packs, and alternatives like good textures would either cost too much to have done or be more of a workload than you could do yourself, then you go with the asset packs because the alternative is to not get the game done at all. On the other hand if going "simple low poly" with better textures is equally viable from a cost/labour perspective, I think it's the better option.

Note however that I am not suggesting that this is the way to go for commercial success or that it is the dominant market trend. I don't know what is - I'd say because "complex low poly" seems fairly common that it must be the more popular way to go, but I don't know if the many "complex low poly" games are actually meeting financial success, so really, I don't know. When I say I prefer "simple low poly" with good textures & art direction, I am solely speaking for my own personal preferences, not a trend, nor what I think is a better design decision, just what I personally prefer to see in a game.

Thanks, I appreciate the detailed perspective.

Viability, as you mentioned, is the driving factor here. I don't have a huge budget to pay an artist for original assets, and I'd rather not spend the hundreds of hours it would take to do it myself. Especially because for a M&B clone, graphics are not really the focal point. Gameplay will ultimately determine whether the game succeeds or fails... the art just needs to be passable.

I am open to different looks, but I think something abstract is the way to go, to differentiate from M&B's more realistic style. What I might do is use a pack like this as a baseline and make tweaks to improve it where it makes sense to (like the character faces).

I would immediately assume it's a soulless low-effort game if you use such a popular art asset bundle like that. A game comes out on Steam every day that uses synty assets. Sorry but that's the honest answer.

Honest feedback is what I'm looking for, so it's all good. I wonder, however, if most players would even recognize these assets as coming from a bundle? I know they probably get used a lot but I don't recall seeing them in any popular RPGs.

Ma main complain would be: trees look bad, empty character faces look bad (textures would fix it, I guess). Other than that everything else looks believable.

Yeah, the faces are one area where I would 100% need to come up with something different. I agree with you on the trees too, they're not the best. But luckily I think there are a lot of low-poly nature assets out there.

 

[NoMoneyNoFameNoDame]

Zanzoken​

​

Having a complete aesthetic and a complete world is more important than chasing quality of graphics.
Even more important than that is having a complete gameplay that's actually fun.

Here's what's going to happen. No one wants to play your game initially. But they do want a new game to play or a tiny bit interested in the gameplay concept.
So they will try your game out. A tiny number of them. Most of those will quit within the first 15 minutes and not return.

The moment they sense you sacrificed on completeness of the gameplay or game world, they will quit. They will not leave any review.
This will then cause your game to stop selling and dampen its visibility.

Similarly failure to tutorialize properly and retard-proof the start of your game will cause most people to quit.
This is because how much you can show effectively at the start helps a person weigh in on how finished of a game they are playing.
Fancy graphics count for jack shit at this stage. Showing you can do a variety of graphics at scale is more important.

Whatever is cheapest and most effective to accomplish a completed game world is what you actually want.

Mastery over your own content is far more important quality than graphical quality.

 

[RobotSquirrel]

I am thinking this style might be appropriate for a Mount & Blade clone I want to make

If you're doing vertex colouring you're bypassing uv mapping which is good, the problem is going to be that you're going to have to put a lot more detail into your meshes versus having a texture with that detail.
Its going to come down to what your needs are, If you're going for a game with lots of customization then vertex colouring makes more sense, if you're going for a game that has a lot of reuse then texturing makes more sense as it'll give you higher detail and a benefit for reusing assets. My advice, try out both styles and see what workflow you enjoy more.

Vertex colouring will win on performance but will be harder to implement.

On closer inspection, it might be that those meshes are using textures, but I have to say what the hell is the point then, you could accomplish the same style with vertex colours and have it run faster with no waste and not have to do UV unwrapping. This is why I don't like using assets like that, lot of really dumb decisions on the asset end, they're only really good if you wanted a base mesh to work from, I bought a weapons pack for that exact reason in a similar art style, my intention is just to end up kitbashing a base mesh and then refining it to the actual style I'm going for.

 

[Tavernking]

Wow, how original. Another isometric project being proudly displayed for all the world to see. And hey, Twiglard, I see you're jumping on the bandwagon too. Never fear, if you run into any issues with your grid logic, just head on over to the roguelikedev subreddit. Those guys have all the answers, because obviously no one has ever had a unique problem before.

As for me, I'm following the tried and true marketing strategy of not revealing a single thing about my game until the free public demo is ready. Because why bother showing anyone any actual content when you can just tease and disappoint? And don't worry, this post won't give away a single detail about my game - I just want to make sure I get that all-important street cred with my fellow Codex Workshop developers. It's all about the iso perspective, right? Wow, how original.

 

[bionicman]

What would be your initial impression of an RPG that had graphics like this?



I think it's a decent, functional style as a whole, but the big thing that's missing is variety and detail of character faces.

I wonder if it might also be overall too cartoonish for some players, and feel tonally dissonant if your game has serious themes.

Nothing wrong with using those assets as long as the game is good, check out Gedonia: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1114220/Gedonia/

If you want to make games, I suggest start devving immediately and stop caring about assets. Start with smaller simpler projects first to learn what you're capable of (I suggest game jams, that's what helped me the most at first). You'll never end up making a game if you don't get started

 

[Justinian]

Approaching end of development for my game and I need to do something about music.

Any cheap/free suggestions? Anyone use AI for their music?

 

[Justinian]

What would be your initial impression of an RPG that had graphics like this?



I think it's a decent, functional style as a whole, but the big thing that's missing is variety and detail of character faces.

I wonder if it might also be overall too cartoonish for some players, and feel tonally dissonant if your game has serious themes.

I personally hate low poly 3d. Can only tolerate it in RTSs because things are too small to get the grating details. Esp true of humanoid figures.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Approaching end of development for my game and I need to do something about music.

Any cheap/free suggestions? Anyone use AI for their music?

There are quite a few music packs out there, but the majority I've encountered felt too generic or incomplete (thus requiring another pack, then another one, and then another one...), but I never needed them myself as I can write music just fine.

I'd suggest not trying to cut corners on this aspect, as even the shittiest games out there can be remembered fondly because of music.

I do remember there are a few composers on Codex (I believe there's a thread in the public library) and infidel produced a few music packs in the past. Also, if you're using Unity, I remember a bunch of free music packs on the Asset Store, but it was almost a decade ago, but it never hurts to poke around and see if anything fits your game. That, and there must be quite a few affordable packs on Itch.io if you're willing to dig.

 

[Zanzoken]

Nothing wrong with using those assets as long as the game is good, check out Gedonia: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1114220/Gedonia/

If you want to make games, I suggest start devving immediately and stop caring about assets. Start with smaller simpler projects first to learn what you're capable of (I suggest game jams, that's what helped me the most at first). You'll never end up making a game if you don't get started

Thanks for the tip on Gedonia. The game looks passable, even good in some places, although the art direction isn't to my taste. Regardless, I don't think the asset store stuff is holding it back any.

You're right about getting started of course, however I guess I've just been trying to think strategically and come up with a strong vision before I commit. I don't want to have to work with anyone else (outside of asset store purchases and a little bit of contract stuff, if needed) so it's taken time to learn how a lot of this works and what's feasible, scalable, etc for a single person.

I pretty much know what I want to do now, so once I get a couple of irl things settled I'll be ready to start prototyping. Hopefully within the next few weeks.

 

[Justinian]

Approaching end of development for my game and I need to do something about music.

Any cheap/free suggestions? Anyone use AI for their music?

There are quite a few music packs out there, but the majority I've encountered felt too generic or incomplete (thus requiring another pack, then another one, and then another one...), but I never needed them myself as I can write music just fine.

I'd suggest not trying to cut corners on this aspect, as even the shittiest games out there can be remembered fondly because of music.

I do remember there are a few composers on Codex (I believe there's a thread in the public library) and infidel produced a few music packs in the past. Also, if you're using Unity, I remember a bunch of free music packs on the Asset Store, but it was almost a decade ago, but it never hurts to poke around and see if anything fits your game. That, and there must be quite a few affordable packs on Itch.io if you're willing to dig.

Well, I did find Pond5 thanks to Infidel. Might actually use some of his tracks, and 35 dolalrs/month for 10 tracks is a pretty good deal. I did want to learn how to make my own music but on the other hand I don't want to spend another 2 months on the game.

 

[infidel]

I think it's a decent, functional style as a whole, but the big thing that's missing is variety and detail of character faces.

Check out the thread about AI art ("Why don't indies use AI art"), I think it can produce amazing portraits already, there are my MidJourney examples in the thread, for example. So if you can use portraits in dialogue mode on top of low-poly 3D, that would solve your problem.

 

[RPK]

I think it's a decent, functional style as a whole, but the big thing that's missing is variety and detail of character faces.

Check out the thread about AI art ("Why don't indies use AI art"), I think it can produce amazing portraits already, there are my MidJourney examples in the thread, for example. So if you can use portraits in dialogue mode on top of low-poly 3D, that would solve your problem.

to add on to this, there is a bit of an art to the prompts. If you're doing a medieval fantasy RPG, there's a pretty good subreddit (r/dndai) that you can use to get an idea of what people are using for prompts. I'm sure there's lots other places too, but that's where I started out getting an idea of what people were doing for prompts. Most people will share them when asked.

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

I have made the greatest football game in a few days.

Foci

 

[rap2h]

My free open-world text-based RPG has now a steam page: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2271590/The_Secret_of_Darkwoods/