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CKII is released.

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
Nah, there is no hardcap and fertility is just another stat in the txt files. There is even a screenshot with a guy having 19 kids. The reason most have no more than 5 children is because Paradox severely limited fertility as a gameplay mechanism. Apparently they decided to severely reduce child mortality and make up for that with less children. That reducing challenge was commented by some as being part of their approach to reach a wider audience. Grrr.

On the other hand, I think one of the ways you can get homosexual trait is one of the most unintentionally hilarious events ever. Basically, after a tournament the monarch decides that from now on its bros before hos fo lyfe/literally catches the gay.

But does it feature EMOTIONAL ENGAGEMENT?

:hmmm:

political alliances are meaningless

Like in CK1. The AI cares little about the prestige hit from refusing to attend to a call to arms(if they even have it) while on the other hand all you gain from it is to choose between losing prestige or getting involved in wars that will bring you not benefit. Vicky 2 also suffers from similar issues when it comes to how easily your "allies" chicken out unless they are part of your Sphere of Influence.
 

Monocause

Arcane
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
3,656
Yeesh:
If you merge levies they still remain separate units, unlike in EU3 - you can see that when you choose the 'create new units' option. It makes sense as the game keeps track of levies taken from different regions so that parts of them get back home after you disband - and also to make sure your vassals get pissed off when you keep their levies in the field for too long. So: military tech from Essex will affect the Essex levy while York levy is subject to York tech. Don't know whether the tech is applied to each of these units separately or is average tech level used to determine bonuses when fighting as a stack. The bottom line is - higher tech is good for you.

During combat they also fight kinda like separate units. You can see it when the morale drops - the worse units suddenly drop out causing your 4k army to become just 2k in one day cause they deserted while the units with better morale/commanders fight on.

You can see the siege modifier when you hover your mouse over the siege defenders morale; they lose some every 12 days depending on their fort level, your numerical advantage and your tech level. When using levies with different tech levels an average of some sort is probably used.

Anyway, tech isn't really important in CK. It's more of a mechanic to differentiate between regions and make Europe progress as centuries pass. If you play well you can get a tech advantage and use it but don't expect much. You can do very well in this game without bothering to look at the tech tab or using your councilmembers for research.

One thing you can do to speed things up is to build schools at your cities and bishoprics.
 

poocolator

Erudite
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
7,948
Location
The Order of Discalced Codexian Convulsionists
Dear smartasses,

What the fuck is with technology? I get it, seperate tech levels for each province, ok, but how does that work for stuff like troop modifiers? I mean the levies just get all mixed together anyway. And what about the one that speeds up sieges? There is no fucking siege equipment, is there?, so how do you know which of your provinces contributes its speed boost when you're sieging an enemy elsewhere? I assume you're not teching up to speed up sieges in your own fucking province.

Love,

Yeesh
Yeah, technology has been befuddled and streamlined in CK2. It's more of a pain in the ass to keep track of things, now. Not to mention that I started with zero in anything and only obtained technology through conquering muslim provinces.

I do like that you can send your councillor on expeditions to convert provinces to your religion. It feels good, mang. That is, up until he gets lynched.

I was minutes away from taking advantage of a fucking claim that I had just fabricated when the fucker declared war on me. I won that war and took the county with towns/castles on which I had a claim, yet am unable to add that county to my peace demands. Fucking retarded. I suppose I gotta enforce the prestige hit the idiot will claim and then immediately declare war again. It doesn't help that the muslims are descending on his remaining territories like a pack of horny boars. Also, I am very butthurt about my wife plotting to kill me.
Interesting turn of events: I made peace with him to free up soldiers to fight some rebels on my lands, forcing him to take the default prestige hit. His realm was shortly thereafter absorbed into the muslim caliphate. The former Duke is now a member of my court, along with his wife and 10 kids. Poor bastard got the "Depressed" trait :`( Maybe I should give him a bishopric or something to play with, even though he still has his original claim on one of my counties. Since his stats are pretty good, I sent one of my sons to be his ward. This is completely unexpected and never happened in CK1.

Now I've gotta wait for the caliphate, whose borders now touch mine, to start experiencing infighting and rebellions before I pick away at outlying counties. In the meantime I have to play nice with the him and get him to like me.
 

Renegen

Arcane
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
Messages
4,064
Dear smartasses,

What the fuck is with technology? I get it, seperate tech levels for each province, ok, but how does that work for stuff like troop modifiers? I mean the levies just get all mixed together anyway. And what about the one that speeds up sieges? There is no fucking siege equipment, is there?, so how do you know which of your provinces contributes its speed boost when you're sieging an enemy elsewhere? I assume you're not teching up to speed up sieges in your own fucking province.

Love,

Yeesh
They just have to all be above 1 star, or 2 stars. When besieging it clearly says for example "technology 1.1" or "technology 0.9". If one unit has lower technology, you lose the bonus. I imagine it's the same for unit upgrades.
 

Luzur

Good Sir
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
41,934
Location
Swedish Empire
well i did as you hinted me and waited until BE decided to hammer some muslims, and snuck in behind them and took the Duchy of Tripoly (hired 2 Holy Orders, my IRL wallet could almost feel the pain of the ingame wallet) and is now licking the cross of Christ everyday for no Jihad proclaimation to appear (although i am kinda sandwiched in by the BE on almost all sides besides in the south.)

also got the extra title of Conquerer. feels good, but my king is getting old.
 

Yeesh

Magister
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
2,876
Location
your future if you're not careful...
Errr, what's with the pagans having more levies in each county than most kingdoms? And what's with attacking armies I've defeated "retreating" deeper into my territory, regaining their morale as they go?
 

hoverdog

dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
Developer
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
5,589
Location
Jordan, Minnesota
Project: Eternity
they have a special pagan-only buiding, warrior cult I think it's called.
It's the least they can do for them, they're still getting horribly raped right from the start - especially the pommeranian ones.
 

Yeesh

Magister
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
2,876
Location
your future if you're not careful...
I see now how the pagans need the help, but it's damned jarring just the same.

Stuck in goddamned gravelkind. Did anyone notice that the tooltip for gravelkind says that if there are no children to inherit, then inheritance reverts to primogeniture? Oh, thanks. So if there are no children, then the oldest CHILD inherits instead. Got it.

Took over a heathen county, and now I have a tool tip that tells me one of the holdings (a city) is of the wrong type. Obviously that requires no explanation. Thanks for the heads up, I'll get right on fixing that.
 

poocolator

Erudite
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
7,948
Location
The Order of Discalced Codexian Convulsionists
Took over a heathen county, and now I have a tool tip that tells me one of the holdings (a city) is of the wrong type. Obviously that requires no explanation. Thanks for the heads up, I'll get right on fixing that.

It means your liege is the ruler of the all the castle(s)/bishopric(s)/city(cities) in the new province you conquered in addition to being the count of the province itself. You have to grant the titles for those positions over to some of your courtiers if you still want to remain in control of the province as count, or hand the province over to a vassal altogether and let them deal with that by making them count instead. One man cannot be mayor of more than one city or castle or bishopric, especially when that man is also the count.

You can grant titles for entire provinces (and lose control of that province to that vassal), or you can divvy up the constituents of that province instead (thereby creating Mayors, etc.) by going into the diplomacy menu for individual characters in your realm and granting them "landed" titles.
 

Monocause

Arcane
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
3,656
Cities and bishoprics have different succesion rules, cities are open elective and bishops are members of the clergy and after the one you appointed dies further ones are appointed by the head of your church. You're not allowed by the common law to hold on to these fiefs. Generally you should give cities and bishoprics to someone else, just be aware that their children won't necessarily inherit cities when they die and that making someone a bishop pushes him into celibacy and prevents him from inheriting anything - it can be really useful to force an unwanted heir into clergy, though they might naturally become pretty upset about it. If your son is a lunatic homosexual then you should definitely consider making him a bishop for RP reasons too.

I think that holding on to cities and bishoprics incurs an opinion penalty among your vassals but I'm not sure.

@Pooc: wrong, you can hold on to all the castles(baronies) you wish. They are inheritable too, just be aware that if you grant someone a county with two castles (one capital, one ordinary barony) and keep the second barony for yourself then he'll be upset that you hold a barony within his domain (IIRC that's a -25 penalty of "Covets the Barony of XXX") - and if you grant the second barony to someone else than the count will likewise become his rival which is useful for creating rivalries should you wish so. In such a situation vassals can petition you to give them the missing baronies back and repeatedly denying them that is bad for business. Best to hold additional baronies inside your own counties - few counties start with two castles but you can build additional ones yourself and it's an excellent source of income and levies, not to mention that a county with two (or three) developed castles takes a shitload of time to conquer.

Yeesh:

Gavelkind is manageable to an extent. When death approaches grant everything you can to your oldest heir. If you don't want the oldest one to inherit then make him a bishop or kill him. Keep your preferred heir the oldest one and grant him as much as you can while you're still alive, give him something even at the beginning of your reign - sons usually don't make bad vassals and it's insurance against untimely death. The more you give him early the less will get split if you die. You should do this because the oldest heir always gets the 'main title', so if you've got a kingdom, two duchies and four counties you can give him the duchies and counties and he'll still become king when you die while his brothers get nothing because they have no claim on the titles you granted him earlier. Or don't, as the bastard will become effectively more powerful than you are and that's not good. Gavelkind is generally good when you're small (no prestige and opinion penalty for unlanded sons) and there's not much that can fall apart. Switch to primogeniture when your demesne gets larger - then the eldest gets everything that's important while you still have counties and baronies to give to your other sons thus avoiding the penalty.

Be careful when switching to primogeniture and preferably do that when you don't have too many sons. Changing succesion laws give a -50 opinion penalty to ALL the members of your close family that remains there until you die and if you're a poor diplomat it can mean revolts, assasinations and all the fun stuff like that.

Alternatively you can kill off all of your sons except one but that is obviously risky.
Paradox also made a tutorial for managing the fallout of having your domain split amongst a couple of sons:
 

Monocause

Arcane
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
3,656
It is, though I believe it works without penalties only in republics which are obviously not playable in a dynasty building game. Venice works like that, I believe that the county of Monemvasia (in Greece) starts out like that too despite being a feudal holding, probably due to some historical reasons. You can load the game as the count of Corinthos in 1066 to check it out.

If it happens to you you have a "wrong government type" penalty though I don't know what does it entail.
 

Spectacle

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
8,363
The more you know...

Is it possible for the capital to be anything other than a castle? I don't recall seeing cities as capitals.
If you pick the mayor of the city in a province and grant him the entire county, the city will become the capital, the county becomes a republic and the mayor will get the title "lord mayor". This can also be done with bishops to create Prince-Bishoprics, you get a bunch of piety for doing so.

Also, heirs don't mind being removed from the succession from being made into bishops, on the contrary they will be grateful for being granted a holding. :D
 

Monocause

Arcane
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
3,656
Also, heirs don't mind being removed from the succession from being made into bishops, on the contrary they will be grateful for being granted a holding. :D

Huh? I did it only once so far and thought that the heir didn't get angry at me because of my high diplo stat or a hidden modifier or something like that; automatically assumed that everyone would get p. upset. If they never do it's probably something Pdox missed and will fix in patches.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
7,269
King BLOBERT "the Great" of Ireland is fucking shit up. The Emerald Isle is almost completely under his rule, and then he'll turn his sights to extending his BROdom over England and Scotland!
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Installed a few mods (expanded ambitions; less blobby HRE; religious wars only declarable on neighbours or crusade targets) and restarted as the King of Castille. In 1066, historically, the death of Fernando the Great meant a Gavelkind split into Galicia, Leon and Castille by his three sons. Almost immediately, the King of Galicia seemed to suffer some sort of accident and become incapable, but before I could move in, the King of Leon assassinated me. Of course, being my brother, I was now playing as my assassin, and the incapable one soon died naturally to restore a relatively powerful Castille/Leon/Galicia/whatever.

I spent the next twenty years aggressively expanding into Muslim Spain, looking to cut off the Kingdoms of Aragon and Navarra, and the Duchy of Barcelona, from expansion. Soon I had Toledo, Valencia and couple of other holdings, which I quickly redistributed to various courtiers - high stewardship, no ambition trait, and often looking for Content or Shy. King Alfonso was known as the Great when he passed away after nearly thirty years of rule. His only flaw was an extramarital liaison that produced two bastard sons, but he decisively denounced them and granted them bishoprics before his death, taking them out of succession entirely.

His son, Alfonso (VIII, I think), had pretty good stats, and got involved in a very difficult war against the Emirate of Beja, the biggest Muslim threat remaining in Iberia. Since waiting for them to declare war means a huge waste of time, I declared early to use a CB and then needed to disband and reform my levies several times, as well as three mercenary armies that broke their backs on the Muslim wave, finally only winning with the help of my blood-related kings in Navarra and Aragon. But he died of mysterious causes (may well have been an undetected assassination). Now his only son, 15 years old, faces a powerful uncle, the Duke of Toledo, who looks almost certain to rebel, as well as several other vassals that are clearly waiting for the right moment. After the recent war I have neither cash nor troops to keep everything in order, so things may well implode from here on in.

I should mention that the religious war mod is a nice temporary fix for the France issue - since they don't border any Iberian muslims at game start they have no good CB, and thus have not set one foot into Spain. Now I'm trying to figure out how I can get Pope to call crusades (if you can do that at all).
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,676
Location
Poland
You cant ask for crusades. Its hilarious like when muslims invade Italy and crusade is called for Alexandria. Very useful aint it.
 

Luzur

Good Sir
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
41,934
Location
Swedish Empire
in my game France has beaten the muslims in Iberia and rules most of the lands south of the smaller spanish kingdoms.
 

Whisky

The Solution
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
8,555
Location
Banjoville, British Columbia
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
in my game France has beaten the muslims in Iberia and rules most of the lands south of the smaller spanish kingdoms.

That's happening all of the time in my games.

In CK1 it was kind of interesting seeing which petty kingdom of Spain took over (One time Navarre inherited Castille and Leon. I was so proud.) or if they all got swallowed up by the heathens.

Now, France just comes in and ruins everyone's day.
 
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
2,608
Location
Airstrip One
For me, Crusader Kings II suffers from lack of events. It gets a bit samey after a while. Should leave it until you get some mods for that.


Still, establishing the Kingdom of Wales and making several holy wars on the norther Iberian muslim emirates after inheritating the Kingdom of Galicia while simultaneously eating up Ireland county by county made for an interesting game. Had every single one of my vassals rebel while I was fully committed into a war with Corboda and still managed to come out without losing anything and even conquering the Duchy of Asturias - so I think it's a little too easy.
 
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
200
Codex 2012 MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
Still, establishing the Kingdom of Wales and making several holy wars on the norther Iberian muslim emirates after inheritating the Kingdom of Galicia while simultaneously eating up Ireland county by county made for an interesting game.
Pretty much what I am doing now, got a zealous 100 year old welshi+irish king.
 

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