Cain on Games - Tim Cain's new YouTube channel

[Modron]

Everyone always memes Troika went bankrupt when they just closed the studio rather than make shovelware. They went to that Fallout 3 auction with a decent warchest but couldn't compete with that 20 something million Bethesda slapped on the table.

 

[Roguey]

None of the Troika games were financial failures though? All of these games are cult classics.

They weren't successful enough to keep Troika awash in projects they could be excited about. Tim envies Feargus. Yeah there was that dark period where working on other peoples' MMOs was keeping the lights on, but those are still RPGs, and doing that allowed smaller teams to make Pillars and Tyranny.

 

[0sacred]

Tim has a chip on his shoulder about being the RPG guy

it's not like he didn't have the chance at Troika. But 5 bucks says anything but an RPG by Tim would suck.

 

[S.torch]

They weren't successful enough to keep Troika awash in projects they could be excited about.

And how is Obsidian any better? They're owned by Microsoft, not an independent studio. At any given time if the winds change they can be completely laid off or outright killed if the higher ups decide so. Just like they've been doing with many others.

 

[Alienman]

Is it a video about radiation?

 

[Roguey]

And how is Obsidian any better?

Obsidian's been around for over 20 years which is significantly longer than Troika's run.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

He says he was a poor businessman but learned a lot from failure.

He was a poor ladiesman, but learned a lot about cupping balls?

Interplay brought a programmer over to confirm that he wasn't using any Fallout code because they were very paranoid and litigious.

It's really easy to write code that does something the second or third time. It was probably way harder for Tim to write the same thing differently than he'd written in Fallout than it would be to write it the way he wrote it for Fallout.

 

[S.torch]

Obsidian's been around for over 20 years

Didn't they started to live off of Kickstarter fumes and gamer clout around 2013? That's just 10 years, since they were not living of their sucessful business practice but of the goodwill of the fans. Besides the comparison is unfair because Kickstarter and Internet weren't that strong when Troika was around.

I'm not a Larian fan but if you wanted to give an example of successful I will give Larian and Swen. Larian is older than both Troika and Obsidian and just a few years ago most people didn't know they existed, they survived making mid RPGs and taking crappy deals from galaxy brain publishers that thought Diablo-clones were the fastest step to riches. But since Larian survived long enough to the Kickstarter era, they started to do their own games and with that they hit gold. Today they are an independent studio. Obsidian is not.

Then again I would say Larian surviving is an example of living on pure stubbornness, not epic self-made businessman.

 

[NecroLord]

Everyone always memes Troika went bankrupt when they just closed the studio rather than make shovelware. They went to that Fallout 3 auction with a decent warchest but couldn't compete with that 20 something million Bethesda slapped on the table.

I wanted Van Buren to become a reality.

 

[Roguey]

Didn't they started to live off of Kickstarter fumes and gamer clout around 2013?

No, they were living off working on other peoples' MMOs (Skyforge, Armored Warfare). The kickstarter was a pittance that could support a few dozen devs.

Besides the comparison is unfair because Kickstarter and Internet weren't that strong when Troika was around.

Obsidian only started a few years after Troika and they survived through it with their Bioware connections (kotor 2 with LucasArts, nwn2 with Atari), Disney (Seven Dwarfs), Sega (Aliens, Alpha Protocol), Bethesda (New Vegas), Square Enix (Dungeon Siege III), Microsoft (Stormlands), and THQ/Ubisoft (South Park).

I'm not a Larian fan but if you wanted to give an example of successful I will give Larian and Swen. Larian is older than both Troika and Obsidian and just a few years ago most people didn't know they existed, they survived making mid RPGs and taking crappy deals from galaxy brain publishers that thought Diablo-clones were the fastest step to riches. But since Larian survived long enough to the Kickstarter era, they started to do their own games and with that they hit gold. Today they are an independent studio. Obsidian is not.

Difficult to say how much of Larian's better success comes down to luck or Swen's own skill. His tastes are as comparably bad as Feargus's and there are a lot of stories of his own underhanded behavior.

However Tim's not going to talk about Swen because he doesn't know him. He knows Feargus.

 

[Abu Antar]

I got bored of his channel, too much attention seeking.

He posts too often.

I watch two or three videos per week.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Roguey]

"What if magic was more hardcore?"



Would only happen in a game with a small budget. People don't even like using consumables when they're given in abundance due to the "I might need them later" mindset. If they're rare, forget it.

Tim praises how crafting cost xp in 3rd edition/ToEE which contributed to my not crafting a single item until after I hit the level cap.

 

[0sacred]

> complains about being the RPG guy
> writes wizard fanfic at night under his blanket

 

[scytheavatar]

Difficult to say how much of Larian's better success comes down to luck or Swen's own skill. His tastes are as comparably bad as Feargus's and there are a lot of stories of his own underhanded behavior.

However Tim's not going to talk about Swen because he doesn't know him. He knows Feargus.

No one gives a shit about Feargus or Swen's "bad tastes" or "underhanded behavior", what that matters is that Swen is objectively and undeniably a way better businessman than Feargus. Swen never panders and never chases trend unlike Feargus. While Feargus is happy for Obsidian to remain under the shadows of better studios, Swen understands the importance of standing out in the industry and doing stuff the competitors are not doing.

Not to mention Larian clearly tries to make games that appeal to a much wider audience than Obsidian does.

 

[Roguey]

No one gives a shit about Feargus or Swen's "bad tastes" or "underhanded behavior", what that matters is that Swen is objectively and undeniably a way better businessman than Feargus.

They're both better than Tim but neither of them are what I would consider good. The game industry is lacking in good businessmen.

Swen never panders and never chases trend unlike Feargus.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Swen is objectively and undeniably a way better businessman than Feargus.

Bitch please. Microsoft cancelled Stormlands contract because Obsidian were doing laughably bad job, and Feargus still managed to bamboozle Microsoft into buying the company. And now he continues as the CEO, presumably making big bucks, despite making no games for 6 years aside from Sawyers glorified flash adventure.

Guy basically spend a decade selling giant turds to Microsoft and got away with it. If that's not Einstein level of business-doing, I don't know what is.

 

[Infinitron]

Swen Vincke had a strong faith in the mass market appeal of turn-based RPGs and a willingness to repeatedly bet the bank on it. That's what sets him apart more than anything else. It'd be interesting to ask him what he would have done if the bet had failed.

 

[scytheavatar]

Swen Vincke had a strong faith in the mass market appeal of turn-based RPGs and a willingness to repeatedly bet the bank on it. That's what sets him apart more than anything else. It'd be interesting to ask Swen what he would have done if the bet had failed.

Swen was right when he said turn based games had already proved their potential to the masses with the mobile games and Pokemon. So turn based games already have nothing to prove, it's only idiots who think turn based games can't sell to the mass market.

But it is naive to think turn based RPGs are some magic sauce and guaranteed success either. Larian games are so successful in the first place cause Swen understood the fundamental point of a CRPG is to create an adventure, and any game he made always did a great job at selling that fantasy of an adventure. Meanwhile Obsidian thinks the whole point of RPGs is to be walking wikipedia pages, why would their games sell well?

 

[0sacred]

It'd be interesting to ask Swen what he would have done if the bet had failed.

"They say there are only two ways to make a living for a poor girl on the streets: prostitution or starvation."

 

[Cohesion]

It'd be interesting to ask Swen what he would have done if the bet had failed.

"They say there are only two ways to make a living for a poor girl on the streets: prostitution or starvation."

Swen never was poor. He was rich & accomplished before BG3.

 

[LizardWizard]

Swen is objectively and undeniably a way better businessman than Feargus.

Bitch please. Microsoft cancelled Stormlands contract because Obsidian were doing laughably bad job, and Feargus still managed to bamboozle Microsoft into buying the company. And now he continues as the CEO, presumably making big bucks, despite making no games for 6 years aside from Sawyers glorified flash adventure.

Guy basically spend a decade selling giant turds to Microsoft and got away with it. If that's not Einstein level of business-doing, I don't know what is.

Does Larian even survive 00s RPG wasteland if they weren't leeching off Belgian government subsidies?

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Does Larian even survive 00s RPG wasteland if they weren't leeching off Belgian government subsidies?

An interesting and crucial point: the Belgian government is ultimately responsible for the creation of Baldur's Gate 3.

 

[Hammer Of The Heretics]

And now he continues as the CEO, presumably making big bucks, despite making no games for 6 years aside from Sawyers glorified flash adventure.

Obsidian released Grounded in late September 2022.

 

[Infinitron]

I talk about things I did to improve morale on my teams.