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Broken Age - Double Fine's Kickstarter Adventure Game

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
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But you do enjoy it, don't you? :D
Honestly, I find it a pain to write there.

You have to write like you're dealing with suicidals, writing how you fully respect their work, their smile and their efforts and are surely mistaken in your complains, before writting anything even remotely negative. Any harsh words or blunt statements are considered aggressive and counter-productive, making them completely ignore whatever you're saying, consider you a troll and attack you (to what moderation turns a blind eye). I mean, just look the the official forum's "Guide to Decency" rules:

Be nice. Double Fine is a nice company. We only hire nice people. We try to make nice games. And I think we have the nicest fans anywhere. So be nice on the forums. Let the DFAF be an oasis of niceness in a mean, mean world. We encourage lively debate, but please don’t be rude, insulting, or make personal attacks. Treat each other with respect. We reserve the right to delete any malicious posts, or to just re-edit them to make the original author look like a horrible person.

Please do not do anything that we do not like, even if we aren’t sure yet what that is. If you invent some new way of diminishing the Pleasure and Value™ of these forums, a brand-new way that we haven’t even thought of yet, even if we haven’t listed it here, we reserve the right to ban you, mock you, or do anything to you that we think of, to you.

Reads like "This is Happy Town, trespassers will be shot."

Sure, the competently retarded answers are amusing, but I really just wanted my refund. Not sure how much damage suejak's betrayal and trolling did, but I will keep trying to get it.
 

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Heh, it seems like just about every other post on the backer forum is is either the puzzles were too easy or there are too many hints.

I'm starting to chance my mind on the value of multiple verbs after reading this post:
Well, in my opinion they are focusing Broken Age to exactly the same market that they did with Monkey Island and Day of the Tentacle: kids and young audiences. What has changed is our perception of those games.

SCUMM games had a false sense of complexity because they had this “verb system” that allowed you to make lots of combinations trying to solve a puzzle, but if you think about it the solution to almost all those puzzles was very simplistic (“use pot as helmet”, “give fish to bridge troll”...), but we remember them to be super-hard because we were little kids with no experience in this kind of games.
Now I understand, having too many options to simply brute force a puzzle meant you actually had to think about it.

I think you can still accomplish this with inventory items and interactable objects on screen, but I do see how a verb system helps.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Please do not do anything that we do not like, even if we aren’t sure yet what that is.


To be fair, this defines moderation in any forum, anywhere, even if the moderator doesn't think so. +M
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
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Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
We encourage lively debate

As long as it's not about the games they make, I assume.

Well, you can't really expect to find anything but fanboys on official forums anyway.
 
Joined
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Divinity: Original Sin
suejak , the fuck is this:

suejak said:
Guys. Seriously. As someone who has upset this forum numerous times in the past, hear me out.

This guy is a dedicated troll from another forum. He’s a regular at rpgcodex.net, a site full of Nazi-worshipping hipster %#$@&!-disturbers. He will literally respond to you in full for all eternity, and he has ample time for endless quote-battles. His sole intent is to drag out the most passionate, most indignant, most frothing responses he can get. He will then quote you back at home base and claim cool points, saying “his thread is so popular thanks to all the fanboys posting in it.” He did this on Steam already.

This is his raison d’etre, and I strongly recommend you just shut the %#$@&! up and stop posting in his thread. He’s a yeast infection and you’re just scratch scratch scratchin away.

I just want a goddamn refund, retarded fanboys doing a circus over it is collateral damage.

Strange... It is like felipepepe is shay trying lo leave his starship, and suejak is the computer AI mother trying to do anything to prevent this...

Felipe, how much did you pledge? You can sell the physical rewards later... hope you have no problems with alfândega when receiving the items.
 

trustno1code

Prophet
Joined
May 24, 2007
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La Pologne
I don't think suejak's "betrayal" mattered much, when someone posted this...

cyY16D4.png

... right after your poor thirdworldian latino role :lol:
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
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Look at the date, that's six months ago, without absolutely any context. I was posting on the Codex, thank god I don't have write in "happy-speak" and can be smug about things here.

If you're curious, that was when gays were lobbying for same-sex marriage as a mechanic in Massive Chalice. Anyone against it was obviously a entitled white cis scum, so I went into the breach. Told them latinos were never represented anywhere, even thought we are much more numerous than gays, yet people understand that it's an abstraction, a fantasy land. Going "oh yeah, it's an abstraction for everyone else, BUT GAYS MUST BE IN" is just retarded.

I actually managed to make them hesitate, even if only a bit, before it just derailed into "He's a troll from the RPG Codex, that nazi forum where they hate everything, therefore all his quite logical arguments are now invalid!"

Felipe, how much did you pledge? You can sell the physical rewards later... hope you have no problems with alfândega when receiving the items.
$100 + $10 for shipping. Quite a lot in Dilmas, but it was my first kickstarter... I was still a naive person that believed in developer's promises.

Got the poster + t-shirt (never wore it, retarded kwa sizes are too big), and the big box will come with the release of Act 2. If they don't refund me, I'll probably wait for it to arrive and sell the full package. Won't get me $110, but I should get like $50-60 I guess.
 
Last edited:

trustno1code

Prophet
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
290
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La Pologne
Look at the date, that's from Jun 3, 2013, without absolutely any context.
Just sayin', that alone probably threw your case under the bus hard enough.
I think DF's been refunding everybody that requested it after the budget drama, wonder what their response will be now. I'd hold onto it anyway, there's still bound to be DF/Schafer/whatever collectors in 10 years that'll throw down ungodly sums.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
If you're curious, that was when gays were lobbying for same-sex marriage as a mechanic in Massive Chalice. Anyone against it was obviously a entitled white cis scum, so I went into the breach. Told them latinos were never represented anywhere, even thought we are much more numerous than gays, yet people understand that it's an abstraction, a fantasy land. Going "oh yeah, it's an abstraction for everyone else, BUT GAYS MUST BE IN" is just retarded.
I remember this one. Was a very good (and clever) argument, loved to see the retarded responses you got on the boards. :D
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
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Apr 18, 2008
Messages
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Double Fine deserves kudos for taking a tired model of play from a billion years ago and making it smooth and enjoyable once more.
I feel really old reading stuff like this.

Yeah, it's always the same. Change pretty much everything and it's automatically good because it's new and not like those really old games which were actually really sucky, amirite?
 
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Divinity: Original Sin
Double Fine deserves kudos for taking a tired model of play from a billion years ago and making it smooth and enjoyable once more.
I feel really old reading stuff like this.

Yeah, it's always the same. Change pretty much everything and it's automatically good because it's new and not like those really old games which were actually really sucky, amirite?

Yet they say "enjoyable once more". which means they enjoyed a tired model of play from a billion years ago.
 

evdk

comrade troglodyte :M
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Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Yet they say "enjoyable once more". which means they enjoyed a tired model of play from a billion years ago.

Because street cred. "Oh I used to play all those games I am old school, but let me tell you - they were made that way only due to technical limitations of that era and only now can the developers fully utilize the next gen computational power to create games they truly wanted to 20 years ago. Games have finally become art, suck it Ebert"
 

Dexter

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Messages
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I think I also realized another thing that somewhat bothered me about the game I couldn't quite put my finger on (since I kind of liked the art style and sound design), which was the world building.
In most other Lucas Arts games I can remember (Monkey Island, Day of the Tentacle, Loom, Indiana Jones, The Dig, Grim Fandango...) it seemed like you were in a coherent world and there were a lot of areas with specific themes - the islands in Monkey Island for instance felt a lot different from one another but still familiar (and sometimes the area maps helped with this) while in Broken Age it kind of felt like they had thrown something together, there were like 3 screens of Sugar Bunting (outside, inside the house and then the sacrifice), 7 screens of cloud colony, then you were suddenly in a wood that they had used for their art test (3 screens) and then there was the fishing town including Temple of the One Eyed God (I kind of got somewhat of a Monkey Island feeling in this part, but very brief) and the space ship was entirely separate with like a dozen or so screens, but none of these really fit together very coherently as a whole.
 

PlanHex

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The weirdest thing is that it's pretty easy to make it a better (and harder) adventure game:

1: One button for looking and one for using. (FUCKING TABLETS)
2: Less hints in dialogue and no items given through dialogue.
 
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Divinity: Original Sin
The weirdest thing is that it's pretty easy to make it a better (and harder) adventure game:

1: One button for looking and one for using. (FUCKING TABLETS)
2: Less hints in dialogue and no items given through dialogue.

3: Fake success: you solve a puzzle but then again, not.

I'll give 2 Monkey Island 2 examples: The oar you use to climb up a tree. it breaks, then you have to fix it. Or the map that is in elaine's mansion: when you get it, the dog sniffs it. when on the frontyard, wind blows it to a cliff. When you think you finally get it with a fishing pole, a seagull brings it to the top of that tree from the first example. Monkey 2 also had an easy mode that eliminates all these fail attempts.
 

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I think I also realized another thing that somewhat bothered me about the game I couldn't quite put my finger on (since I kind of liked the art style and sound design), which was the world building.
In most other Lucas Arts games I can remember (Monkey Island, Day of the Tentacle, Loom, Indiana Jones, The Dig, Grim Fandango...) it seemed like you were in a coherent world and there were a lot of areas with specific themes - the islands in Monkey Island for instance felt a lot different from one another but still familiar (and sometimes the area maps helped with this) while in Broken Age it kind of felt like they had thrown something together, there were like 3 screens of Sugar Bunting (outside, inside the house and then the sacrifice), 7 screens of cloud colony, then you were suddenly in a wood that they had used for their art test (3 screens) and then there was the fishing town including Temple of the One Eyed God (I kind of got somewhat of a Monkey Island feeling in this part, but very brief) and the space ship was entirely separate with like a dozen or so screens, but none of these really fit together very coherently as a whole.
Minor spoilers ahead:

I think the logic of the planet is tied into the entertainment zones for Shay. I think the places on the planet have been "rewritten" to essentially be a theme park for him. That's why Steel Bunting became Sugar Bunting and the whole thing seems so theme parkish. So it might actually be clever in the end.
 

Tigranes

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Alright. So I've finished Broken Age, act 1. I have to say, individually speaking, all of Codex's criticisms I agree with, but the combined condemnation I find myself puzzled at.

First of all, the length. It took me about 4-5 hours, so I suppose it will be a 8-10 hour game in total. That's short, yes, but I'm not too unhappy with it given the $15 Kickstarter tag. The official price of $25 I feel is a bit much. I also tend to think adventure games don't benefit from larger scope/length like RPGs do, as the gameplay is more limited (puzzles, puzzles, puzzles). In terms of whether the length feels right for this game in particular, indeed it should have been larger - keep the same locations, just add more things to do in each area. But I don't think it's criminally short.

Second of all, the puzzles. There's no getting away from the fact that this is BA's biggest flaw and that it can only be the outcome, reasonably, of two possible factors: (1) a screwed up production process or incompetence; (2) a desire to casualise. Either way, the end result is something that directly contravenes the old school promise. My attitude to all the KS I backed is 'just make a good game, I'm not too hung up on it otherwise', but it is pretty blatant here. The opening scenes for girl and boy are both terrible one-click affairs; at the maiden's feast basically there's not much of a logic to figure things out beforehand, so you try every item on every girl until you get the right one. The boy one is just click X, click Y, click Z. There are some equally bland puzzles later on - the worst culprit is surely SOLVE THE RIDDLE OF YORN, and by then you've learned to just drag and drop every single item in your inventory on them, and lo and behold, you simply give them the fruit you had before. There's a golden opportunity for a complex multi-step puzzle and you basically solve it if you didn't miss the gigantic fruit tree before. I'm an adventure game noob and I don't exactly miss the difficulty in some of the older games, but it's a bit too gormless here.

But I think the good / not-so-bad parts of the game are also considerable:

The art style and graphics I think are actually good. Sure, I prefer Grim Fandango, GK1/2, TLJ, Sanitarium... they had excellent direction. But while the visuals of Monkey Island, King's Quest or Full Throttle are nice, I don't think they're so superior like the first list, and Broken Age, depending on your tastes, can hold its own with them. The pity is that I think it is best with more stylised scenes, like the forest outdoors of the lumberjack's house, instead of the cartoonish cloud land, but the latter are more abundant. The sheer variety of animations has already been mentioned, and even if I wish they didnt' splurge on that so much, it's there and it's nice.

The writing and plot I think is decent, too. In the first hour I was thinking what is this saturday breakfast cartoon bullshit. The problem is related to scope in that if this is a 30 hour game, then that's OK for the beginning, but if it's a 8-10 hour game, far too much % of it is spent in Cartoon Network. There are some little funny moments, but generally the boy path in Act 1 doesn't really get out of that; the biggest disappointment here is the wolf character, who, so far, is the worst character in the entire game, in terms of how much tprominence he has yet how thoroughly uninteresting and unfunny he is. In a setting so devoid of 'actual' characters they really needed him to be a lot better, or have a larger supporting cast - e.g. the 'dad' of the machine disappears after the first 10 minutes. However, I think the girl's path gets better as it keeps going. Cloud land is bit heavy-handed in the guru satire but there's a healthy variety of characters and their approaches to that; the lumberjack guy is well done, and Shellmound is OK too. The 'twist' is pretty obviously foregrounded, but I don't mind, and it does set things up for an interesting second act, which is guaranteed to be less saccharine.

(There are some odd disjunctures in the delivery of the story; too often you're not sure why you're doing what, i.e. you don't know why you need the tree's sap when you ask it for it; why exactly you want to get to the forest below cloud land is sometimes a bit obscure; etc., etc. I think tuluse's hunch is right though, and the Steel Bunting / Sugar Bunting stuff I think is the one genuinely clever moment. I'm hoping the story will step up in Act 2.)

Basically, I feel like if only it had some more puzzles, proper ones at that, then it could be called a very good adventure game. It isn't particularly old school, but I think it has character, and I'm glad it's here. I just wish they cut some of the animations and spent some time thinking of puzzles beyond "hey, we need to cut something, let's give them a knife" level.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
13,716
Yet they say "enjoyable once more". which means they enjoyed a tired model of play from a billion years ago.

Because street cred. "Oh I used to play all those games I am old school, but let me tell you - they were made that way only due to technical limitations of that era and only now can the developers fully utilize the next gen computational power to create games they truly wanted to 20 years ago. Games have finally become art, suck it Ebert"
Exactly. Something tired becoming enjoyable once more doesn't actually make any sense to me. First of all I wasn't tired of that "model". That was the fucking point of the Kickstarter, was it not? To bring back that model of play.
Of course, as others have noted, most backers probably didn't actually want that as much as they wanted a funny slideshow directed by Schafer.
 

Metro

Arcane
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Messages
27,792
An adventure game without puzzles is like an FPS without shooting, e.g., Dear Esther. Not surprising we get another 2deep4u e-storybook.
 

dunno lah

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Boleh!land
I'm playing Indy and the Fate of Atlantis(maiden experience) right now and the puzzles in this game seem pretty simple but cool.(I'm at the U-boat right now..) My question is, how easy is broken age compared to this game?
 

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