Broken Age - Double Fine's Kickstarter Adventure Game

[kazgar]

Just realised in one week I can finish the game finally and uninstall it.

Probably got my $15 worth, mostly in drama and butthurt, though there was some adventure gaming thrown in for good measure.

 

[felipepepe]

Remenber last year, when I asked for a refund, was denied, got dogpilled by DF fans and had Tim Schafer call me a jerk? Well, last week DF's new forum moderator actively went after a "troublesome" poster and offered him a full refund just so he would go away.

Taumel, I really wish you’d stop antagonizing people here, it’s all becoming rather tedious.
You’ve made it clear that you are disappointed with Broken Age, if you’d like a refund of your money then please get in touch with us and we’ll see what can be done (email me here: spaff@doublefine.com).

If you’d like to remain a member of this community, then please act like it and stop wading into threads just to derail them and start a fight. Thank you.

Apparently he was hailed by refund requests, as he added this:

————————————————————————————————
IMPORTANT EDIT If you are here because you saw a link elsewhere that we are giving refunds, and you want to mail us about being disappointed also, this was a very special case, so please don’t.

We are NOT issuing general refunds for Broken Age. Thanks.
————————————————————————————————

 

[ERYFKRAD]

 

[Bubbles]

For reference, here are the posts that led to taumel's exclusive refund offer.

Behold his 4chan-esque trolling prowess:

"Reviewers are stuck playing the game - that's a good sign, right?"

Depends on who’s reviewing the game, troublesome kids, pralines filled with active brain cells, disoriented naked turtles, ...

I always preferred if reviewers don’t get copies before a game openly is available, can be good for a number of reasons.

----

First of all, no one was unfair here.

Depending on the reviewers DF selected, it might give you a clue for whom the game (episode 2) was designed for.

It would be nice if the shady relationship (where it occurs) between devs and press could come to an end. No one i know buys games based on reviews, or actually (fully) reads them, anymore. From the very beginning game journalism mostly wasn’t top journalism but a.o. there was a charming naivety and true excitement (from all 3 sides). You could write pages about how wanna-be experts, idiots and the huge increase of money throughout the years corrupted all this and turned things into a scam behind the doors.

Anyway i prefer if games get released into a void, without opinions shouting all around you. Only you and the game. It’s the best experience you can hope for as a gamer. And if you’re unsure about a game, ask your friends, watch some let’s plays (no com), talk to other gamers, follow your instinct.

It’s more fun this way. There is no additional value for a gamer if a review comes up with the stereotypical blabla (or a brilliant observation) on day 1 (or even before). Good video games offer a decelerated timeless component too. Many gamers want a quick estimation, don’t read reviews, directly jump to the final verdict and move on. Reading comes after the gaming (it’s different for devs but the target audience of the reviews are [apart from the reviewer]?).

Game journalism (to some degree, journalism [light] in general) lost its prerogative of interpretation. A valid argument/statement/observation should make a point regardless of who brought it up. And since quite some time the best often isn’t coming from the journalistic side anymore, still they are being utalised as a marketing tool.

---

Who likes to review games, from these sort of reviewers, when he/she isn’t interested personally in a game as well?

It’s interesting how clear you can see how wrong something was in hindsight. Then again no one expected such a lack of creativity, depth and complexity here as well. “It might be too easy.” already sounded confusing but there still was hope that Schafer was only joking.

---

@KestrelPi
You might want to reject the evaluation but not the facts.

And that's when he got the "fuck off already, end of rhine" mod post.

 

[felipepepe]

If a guy gets a full refund for doing that, I think I more than deserve one, especially after Schafer calling me a jerk in his documentary for all his fanboys to giggle.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

If a guy gets a full refund for doing that, I think I more than deserve one, especially after Schafer calling me a jerk in his documentary for all his fanboys to giggle.

Just because Scafer's a dick doesn't mean he's not right about you being a jerk.

 

[felipepepe]

True, never said I was a saint. But if you are going to spit in a customer's face like that, at least have the decency to give his money back.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

 

[felipepepe]

Oh, I found out why this lead to so much drama and damage control. It's all Suejak trolling by posting this on Steam:

Double Fine offering full refunds for Broken Age backers
I know there was some discussion of refunds in the past, but the requests were denied. Now it seems they're offering the refunds to anyone who wishes one:http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/16768/P15/

Although I didn't post in the above thread, I personally got a full refund just today, and I am now a very satisfied DF customer for the first time in a while.

I actually got my backer rewards revoked a few months ago for being too critical on the forums. Anyway... all's well now that my money has been returned.

Note that if you enjoy the game, that's great and this thread isn't intended for you. However, I know I've seen several posts here that were very negative toward the game and its handling overall. So for those people: act now and get your money back! They might not keep offering these after Act 2 comes out next week. Meanwhile, there are many great adventure games out there that are very deserving of your money

/publicserviceannouncement

EDIT: Sucks that it needs to be said, but this has absolutely nothing to do with feminism or #gamergate. I am actually anti-#gamergate.

 

[Boleskine]

Taumel’s full refund

I didn’t want to come back here, but I e-mailed Spaff about this and got no reply, again, so here we go.

Last year I asked for a refund in the backer forums (http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/12416/), after I thought that Act 1 was nothing like was promised and that I had no interest in Act 2 or anything related to this project anymore. I explained that I knew it was not the usual policy, but asked:

I understand that “old-school” and “classic” are subjective concepts. I can’t do anything to force a refund, but I can ask nicely and hope for comprehension on your side.

The result was a witch-hunt from forum members who had nothing to do with the issue, followed by a denial of my request, and then by Tim Schafer literally calling me a jerk in DF’s documentary. Yeah, not the most professional way to take a refund request guys, one would expect a bit more of respect for a person who believed in you and pledged $110 of his hard-earned money to help you when you needed.

Now, the reason I’m back here is that just last week Spaff the administrator issued a full refund to a guy called Taumel, because he was antagonizing people and being very vocal about his disappointment, as you can see here: http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/16768/P15/

So, what’s Double Fine’s criteria here?

I politely ask for a partial refund on the backer forums, get denied, dog-pilled and called a jerk.
A guy acts like a jerk in your forums, he gets offered a full refund to go away.

Is this really the message you want to send? That only those who make enough noise will get the a refund? I’ve been very disappointed by Double Fine lately, but I think you are smarter than this. So, one last time, can I please get a refund?

PS: After the events last year, I will not reply to anyone except DF’s staff. This is between me and DF, no one else has any say in it. The only reason this is here is because I e-mailed DF and got no reply. Again.

No offense, but I’d like to hear that from Spaff or another admin.

If I’m special enough to get called a jerk by Tim Schafer in the documentary, I think I’m special enough to get a refund. You know, publicly shaming me while keeping my money is a bit unfair. If you want to cut ties, then at least have the decency to go all the way.

Yes, except that very post has Spaff issuing a full refund, so there are exceptions.

Also, you don’t publicly call a customer a jerk because he didn’t like your game, but here we are…

 

[toro]

Depends how bigger the refund was

 

[Boleskine]

A staff member responded.

I have your email Felipepepe, and I will get to it, there’s just rather a lot going on at the moment. Sorry getting back to you in a timely manner.

I’m a strong believer in good customer service, and people being able to get things like refunds when they are not happy—if it is at all reasonable for that to happen—and I’ll definitely see what can be done for you.

FYI though— you backed a crowdfunding campaign which comes with inherent risks by its very nature, and you knew that going into it.
You also backed a project that promised a game would go into production which would either “be great or fail spectacularly” along with a documentary series that would follow the team from start to finish.

I’m sorry that the game was not a thing you ended up liking (even though you’ve only played the first part) As far as what we set out to do however, we have achieved it. Your argument that the content of the game is not what was promised is besides the point. In your mind it was a failure, and so the goals of the kickstarter were met.

Also, in the case of Taumel, I merely asked him to put his money where his mouth was, so to speak, or to leave us in peace.
We then had a very civil discussion about it, and I very much appreciated his attitude and decision in this matter.

I see no reason to keep this thread alive, I’ll talk to Felipepepe over email, thanks!

 

[Irenaeus]

Awesome answer!

 

[felipepepe]

A staff member responded.

I see no reason to keep this thread alive, I’ll talk to Felipepepe over email, thanks!

This is the only part that matters. He was very agreeable and gave me the partial refund I asked for back in 2014. I'm satisfied.

 

[Boleskine]

A staff member responded.

I see no reason to keep this thread alive, I’ll talk to Felipepepe over email, thanks!

This is the only part that matters. He was very agreeable and gave me the partial refund I asked for back in 2014. I'm satisfied.

Now you can use your partial refund to buy gift copies of Broken Age for Codexers and hold a giveaway raffle. :D

 

[Pyke]

I would imagine they are doing a proper embargo this time round....reviews will (more than likely) only come out when the game is available. It's probably an error on Game Informers part to even have that up there.

 

[Zed]

I wonder if part 2 will also be a puzzle game for schaefer's 5 year old children.

 

[Bubbles]

They'd be his 7 year old children now.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

They'd be his 7 year old children now.

They'd have to revise the budget to accomodate that though.

 

[tuluse]

They'd be his 7 year old children now.

INCLINE!

 

[Shadenuat]

True, never said I was a saint. But if you are going to spit in a customer's face like that, at least have the decency to give his money back.

So you wouldn't feel bad if they said: "You shat on my game, so you're fucking grognard and a jerk. But wanting a refund for a product is fair, so you will get one"?

I think there should be some sort of fair use between codex state of mind and developers. We get to hate their games and say they are crap and kickstarter is a scam. They get to call us jerks if they feel offended by that, doesn't matter if it's professional or not.

TBH, I'm not sure it's actually right to ask a refund for a kickstarter. They sell dreams and you decide you're a fool enough to believe in one or not. It's like betting in a lottery.

 

[felipepepe]

So you wouldn't feel bad if they said: "You shat on my game, so you're fucking grognard and a jerk. But wanting a refund for a product is fair, so you will get one"?

I think there should be some sort of fair use between codex state of mind and developers. We get to hate their games and say they are crap and kickstarter is a scam. They get to call us jerks if they feel offended by that, doesn't matter if it's professional or not.

Yes, I would rather have honest conversations than PR filled nonsense. As the DF guy said, put your money where your mouth is. I paid to play Broken Age and have every right to shit-talk it. And what I asked for (and eventually got) wasn't a full refund, just a partial one concerning the physical rewards I haven't got yet; I'm still owner of a Broken Age copy, I still paid for my failed bet.

Now, shit-talking a consumer while denying him a refund is just cowardice. Either you need me as a consumer or you don't. If you are that cocky, a partial refund should be no problem for you. If issuing refunds is such a big deal, then you should probably be doing some serious introspection, not name-calling those who trusted you and got disappointed.

I really respect this new DF guy for thinking this way, things would have gone much smoother had he been in charge a year ago.

TBH, I'm not sure it's actually right to ask a refund for a kickstarter. They sell dreams and you decide you're a fool enough to believe in one or not. It's like betting in a lottery.

Kickstarter is already heavily biased towards developers. If a publisher funds a game, they'll take a hefty cut out of the profits. If a fan funds a game, they only get a copy of it, profit is 100% to the companies. Under these conditions, I think that asking them to at least uphold their promises isn't that much. Unfortunately, people disagree with this, and thus I have avoided Kickstarter altogether since this incident... last thing I backed was Serpents in Staglands.

 

[Shadenuat]

Yes, I would rather have honest conversations than PR filled nonsense. As the DF guy said, put your money where your mouth is. I paid to play Broken Age and have every right to shit-talk it. And what I asked for (and eventually got) wasn't a full refund, just a partial one concerning the physical rewards I haven't got yet; I'm still owner of a Broken Age copy, I still paid for my failed bet.

Ah alright. I was just wondering how would you refund say a 1000$ bet.
Although, even refunding for physical goods already sent must be a bitch. I think developers make mistake by going into that physical shipping territory and just get more problems on themselves.

 

[felipepepe]

But they weren't send. They weren't even produced yet, they'll wait for the Documentary's DVDs to be ready, in October or so.

And yeah, as much as I like boxes, doing physical KS rewards must be a pain... then again, it's the most effective way to sell high KS tiers...

 

[almondblight]

Kickstarter is already heavily biased towards developers. If a publisher funds a game, they'll take a hefty cut out of the profits. If a fan funds a game, they only get a copy of it, profit is 100% to the companies. Under these conditions, I think that asking them to at least uphold their promises isn't that much. Unfortunately, people disagree with this, and thus I have avoided Kickstarter altogether since this incident... last thing I backed was Serpents in Staglands.

As much flak as games like Broken Age or Godus get, they're still probably on the better end of things. Even if we ignore outright "take the money and run" scams like Confederate Express, you have massive failures like Yogventures and Clang, screw-ups like Manse, and outright deceptions like Elite: Dangerous (or the quasi-scam of DF-9, to compare it to another Double Fine game).