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Broken Age - Double Fine's Kickstarter Adventure Game
- Thread starter J_C
- Start date
Look, people fuck up. It happens - even the best of people. Double Fine Adventure I totally believe started with good intentions, but I feel like Broken Age grew a bit out of control for the situation that gave birth to it. And now we have just a half finished game, and I'm wondering what the future holds, really.
I know people say it will have no effect on other adventure games, but it will - like I said, it's pretty high profile and whether we like it or not, it'll affect everyone who makes adventure games in someway. May not be a bad effect, either - cause some people make take it as a cautionary example of "how not to do it" and make better games. Or it'll give fuel to all the adventure game haters who will be like - Adventure games suck! Just LOOK AT BROKEN AGE!
Bt
I know people say it will have no effect on other adventure games, but it will - like I said, it's pretty high profile and whether we like it or not, it'll affect everyone who makes adventure games in someway. May not be a bad effect, either - cause some people make take it as a cautionary example of "how not to do it" and make better games. Or it'll give fuel to all the adventure game haters who will be like - Adventure games suck! Just LOOK AT BROKEN AGE!
Bt
They started with bad intentions, to make a game fun for 4 yo girls.
Actually the adventure game haters might like Broken Age. Because what adventure game haters hate, are the complex puzzles, lots of dialogues and oldschool graphics. They will love Broken Age. So no, I don't agree that it will have an effect. Adventure game lovers will stay clear of BA and will look at other promising titles, while haters will stay clear of adventure games, just as they stood clear of them all the time. Or, some of them will enjoy Broken Age's simplistic design, and will start to appriciate adventure games, thus searching for more complex titles.
DeepOcean
Arcane
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2012
- Messages
- 7,404
Don't worry, Tim is fucking up Double Fine reputation so much that it is more likely people pointing LOOK AT DOUBLE FINE!
Yeah, I don't think Tim suddenly decided to make a game for pre-school kids instead of an 'old school adventure' only after the kickstarter drive.
As seen in the documentary, they had no idea what kind of game they want to make.
Yeah, the only thing promised was a "classic point-and-click adventure". Precisely the one thing that they didn't deliver.
I don't think Tim had an idea of what game he wanted to do - but he probably had some kind of idea. When the money came in, and the project looked viable, I can see them thinking something with a younger (and thus "more broad") appeal would sell better. I don't think this assumption was correct at all, though - it kind of alienated the core audience. The core audience for these games may not be larger, and if you alienate them too hard, you're going to lose a lot in an already smaller community!
Bt
Bt
tuluse
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2008
- Messages
- 11,400
I think two things. One Tim thought his core audience was people who liked double fine's sensibilities and story telling. Not die hard Lucas Arts fans. There is a good chance he is right about this.
Two he saw an opportunity to make his company truly independent. No more answering to others for the creative process. Just make games and sell them. This meant broken age could no longer be a small fun adventure, but had to be a company defining thing which spring boarded them into this new era.
Two he saw an opportunity to make his company truly independent. No more answering to others for the creative process. Just make games and sell them. This meant broken age could no longer be a small fun adventure, but had to be a company defining thing which spring boarded them into this new era.
And that's the failure of almost all kickstarters riding on nostalgia... they sell everyone's dream, but deliver just what they consider to be good about those games.
The main problem IMO was that Tim wanted Broken Age to be a hit for the mainstream market. He doesn't just wanted to make a game from the KS money, he wanted it to bring the company a ton of additional money. As tuluse has already said, BA had to be a company defining thing. And that was wrong. The beauty of kickstarter is that if you plan right, reaching the funding goal means that your game is set, regarding a financial standpoint. Even if you don't sell a copy after release, not even one, you are still good, since every penny was paid in advance by the backers. But that is the worst case scenario, of course they would have sold thousands of copies, if they made a really oldschool game. So they would have been in the green, without all this controversy.
Boleskine
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2013
- Messages
- 4,045
If Tim wanted a mainstream hit, I truly think he would have been better off making a more challenging and deeper adventure game (I did enjoy BA but recognize the faults and shallowness). The core adventure gamers and kickstarter backers would have spread positive discussion about the game across message boards and other sites. Instead, the majority of those 90000 backers felt lukewarm about BA. As a result people just weren't talking much about it after the first week or so. It failed to grab the main audience, and if you can't grab your main audience you're going to struggle to grab the secondary audience.
Catering to the mainstream market had the opposite effect that was intended - instead of pleasing both niche and casual fans, the game wasn't a smash hit with either group. There were positive reviews on major gaming sites, but the mixed feedback had more of an effect on public opinion.
Catering to the mainstream market had the opposite effect that was intended - instead of pleasing both niche and casual fans, the game wasn't a smash hit with either group. There were positive reviews on major gaming sites, but the mixed feedback had more of an effect on public opinion.
buzz
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2012
- Messages
- 4,234
I don't think Tim and DF wanted to cater to the casual/mainstream audience necessarily with Broken Age. Rather, I think it's more a case of "re-evaluating" adventure games. Kinda like Josh Sawyer, you know, trying to "fix" the genre so to speak.
I think a lot of adventure game developers live with this stigma in their head from the 90s and present days when they were/are criticized for pixel hunting, nonsensical puzzles and solutions, lots of backtracking and so on. As a "game", the adventure genre is pretty flawed. Don't get me wrong, I love it, but I can see why it faded to obscurity back in the day.
Make no mistake, that was the path of LucasArts adventure games as well. First they removed the Sierra parser because it didn't add much (at least that was the though-process). Then they removed dead-ends and game over screens. Then Tim himself tried to put more "interactivity" with those bike action sequences in FT and the tank controls in GF.
Mix that thought of trying to "change" how adventure games are made with the lack of experience of doing proper puzzles after so many years since Grim Fandango and an unnecessary focus on pwetty graphics and star voice acting and you get BA.
In other words, I don't think they tried to intentionally "dumb it down" as much as this was their idea of doing an adventure game "properly".
People tend to mix the situations or try to put it politely. Broken Age isn't a case of catering to casuals or to little kids. Bullshit, I played Monkey Island 2 when I was 6 and I absolutely loved it, even though I didn't understand what they were even saying at that point. Kids have the patience and the ability to explore and try all sorts of combinations for solving puzzles. It was like playing in a cartoon or story book.
It's the adults with their jobs and problems who want a little nostalgia of the old times through quick gratification, those are the problem. The "mature" audience and the developers who stopped treating games as toys and want to treat them as something else.
Broken Age is not a case of calculated cynicism, of trying to sell to the invisible iPhone audience. No, it was just pure incompetence. A bunch of hipsters not being capable of making proper adventure games, preferring to masturbate each-other thinking of ways to "revolutionize the formula"
fucking hipsters
I think a lot of adventure game developers live with this stigma in their head from the 90s and present days when they were/are criticized for pixel hunting, nonsensical puzzles and solutions, lots of backtracking and so on. As a "game", the adventure genre is pretty flawed. Don't get me wrong, I love it, but I can see why it faded to obscurity back in the day.
Make no mistake, that was the path of LucasArts adventure games as well. First they removed the Sierra parser because it didn't add much (at least that was the though-process). Then they removed dead-ends and game over screens. Then Tim himself tried to put more "interactivity" with those bike action sequences in FT and the tank controls in GF.
Mix that thought of trying to "change" how adventure games are made with the lack of experience of doing proper puzzles after so many years since Grim Fandango and an unnecessary focus on pwetty graphics and star voice acting and you get BA.
In other words, I don't think they tried to intentionally "dumb it down" as much as this was their idea of doing an adventure game "properly".
People tend to mix the situations or try to put it politely. Broken Age isn't a case of catering to casuals or to little kids. Bullshit, I played Monkey Island 2 when I was 6 and I absolutely loved it, even though I didn't understand what they were even saying at that point. Kids have the patience and the ability to explore and try all sorts of combinations for solving puzzles. It was like playing in a cartoon or story book.
It's the adults with their jobs and problems who want a little nostalgia of the old times through quick gratification, those are the problem. The "mature" audience and the developers who stopped treating games as toys and want to treat them as something else.
Broken Age is not a case of calculated cynicism, of trying to sell to the invisible iPhone audience. No, it was just pure incompetence. A bunch of hipsters not being capable of making proper adventure games, preferring to masturbate each-other thinking of ways to "revolutionize the formula"
fucking hipsters
See, here's where I disagree. Monkey Island is like Star Wars. It was made by young guys for themselves, it has that teenage edge while also being easy for kids to understand and entertaining for older people to play/watch.
On the other hand, Tim specifically said in the documentary that he wanted something for his daughter to play. And as overprotective parent that underestimates children, he created the equivalent of a Teletubbies adventure game.
Well, I'm glad he got to make a game for his daughter using, you know, mostly seasoned fans money. I'm sure they all wanted a game for his daughter, too.
(The real cynic in me had to say this.)
Bt
(The real cynic in me had to say this.)
Bt
Not even his daughter wants the game, I bet. She probably played it for 3 hours, then utterly forgot about it.
By the way, Double Fine made a Steam Curator page, where they recommend their own games. Here's what they say about Broken Age: "It’s filled with unforgettable characters, incredible puzzles, and one of the most gorgeous worlds you’ll find in games."
By the way, Double Fine made a Steam Curator page, where they recommend their own games. Here's what they say about Broken Age: "It’s filled with unforgettable characters, incredible puzzles, and one of the most gorgeous worlds you’ll find in games."
Really? I know we're all about pimping our own games, but damn...
Bt
Bt
What the fuck!Not even his daughter wants the game, I bet. She probably played it for 3 hours, then utterly forgot about it.
By the way, Double Fine made a Steam Curator page, where they recommend their own games. Here's what they say about Broken Age: "It’s filled with unforgettable characters, incredible puzzles, and one of the most gorgeous worlds you’ll find in games."
Biased much? Incredible puzzles? Well, at least they didn't say complex puzzles.
Well, I certainly couldn't believe those puzzles when I saw the for the first time, so I guess they are right.What the fuck!Not even his daughter wants the game, I bet. She probably played it for 3 hours, then utterly forgot about it.
By the way, Double Fine made a Steam Curator page, where they recommend their own games. Here's what they say about Broken Age: "It’s filled with unforgettable characters, incredible puzzles, and one of the most gorgeous worlds you’ll find in games."
Just noticed something. Remember all that drama of how Indie Fund was involved in the whole GamerGate stuff, with corruption, fraud in the Indie Cade award and all that? And how Leigh Alexander works as both a PR agent AND a reviewer?
Well, Double Fine's Curator page promotes all the Indie Fund games, and uses Leigh Alexander's review quote on Mountain.
Well, Double Fine's Curator page promotes all the Indie Fund games, and uses Leigh Alexander's review quote on Mountain.
If you stir shit, foul fumes will ascend 
Untermensch
Augur
Broken Age.....
Moar liek Borked Age. Heh, heh. Amirite guyz?
Moar liek Borked Age. Heh, heh. Amirite guyz?
Advertising Brokan Age as a great game is ridiculous, but there is nothing wrong with their Steam curator page. Obviously they recommend their games (every company would), but they have another 2 dozen games on that list about great games, including Wasteland 2.
m_s0
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2009
- Messages
- 1,292
Puzzles? What puzzles?Well, I certainly couldn't believe those puzzles when I saw the for the first time, so I guess they are right.What the fuck!Not even his daughter wants the game, I bet. She probably played it for 3 hours, then utterly forgot about it.
By the way, Double Fine made a Steam Curator page, where they recommend their own games. Here's what they say about Broken Age: "It’s filled with unforgettable characters, incredible puzzles, and one of the most gorgeous worlds you’ll find in games."
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