Decline Blizzcon 2024 November 3-4

[Blutwurstritter]

Has there been any mention of a new rts game or a rts sequel to Warcraft/Starcraft?

 

[Axel_am]

Sooooooo is this everything? Just the two expansions? Maybe they should just make a blog post next time.

 

[Hellraiser]

Sooooooo is this everything? Just the two expansions? Maybe they should just make a blog post next time.

 

[Dr1f7]

Sooooooo is this everything? Just the two expansions? Maybe they should just make a blog post next time.

it was pretty underwhelming for a blizzcon but i suspect that's because nobody gives a fuck about three of their five big titles (overwatch/hearthstone/rumble)

the highlight was actually the sexy korean dancers they had at the end
ironic cuz if they put sexy korean dancers in any of their games HR would have a fit and half the team would be fired

 

[Dr1f7]

Don Peste
cant find the blizzcon recording but the dancers:

 

[Axel_am]

Supreme Slav Girls on the Blizzcon dance scene when?

 

[None]

They were just visually different, the core mechanics didn't change between them.

Looks like you didn't play the game much.

He's right. Objectives may change based on the map, but they're ultimately superficial. The only map I can think of that lends itself to a different style of play is Blackheart's Bay, the rest are just about contesting a certain point (but even Blackheart's Bay has that in the form of the turn in location). So regardless of the map, the gameplay flows the same: push & soak, contest the objective, repeat. Any options outside the first two can only serve the first two and even those are limited in the form of mercs. Maybe ganking if the enemy is out of position, but the nature of forts makes that difficult compared to other games.

The only thing that makes the gameplay stand out, imo, is its relatively casual approach. Shorter matches, fewer choices to make, less mechanics to master. Although I played it fairly consistently from beta until earlier this year, I'm fairly certain the game's lack of depth was its greatest shortcoming. It is the mashed potatoes of mobas, baby's first moba, etc.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

ironic cuz if they put sexy korean dancers in any of their games HR would have a fit and half the team would be fired

They'll have an event about it at least.

r34 artists right now:

 

[Don Peste]

Mmm those hands...

 

[J1M]

They were just visually different, the core mechanics didn't change between them.

Looks like you didn't play the game much.

He's right. Objectives may change based on the map, but they're ultimately superficial. The only map I can think of that lends itself to a different style of play is Blackheart's Bay, the rest are just about contesting a certain point (but even Blackheart's Bay has that in the form of the turn in location). So regardless of the map, the gameplay flows the same: push & soak, contest the objective, repeat. Any options outside the first two can only serve the first two and even those are limited in the form of mercs. Maybe ganking if the enemy is out of position, but the nature of forts makes that difficult compared to other games.

The only thing that makes the gameplay stand out, imo, is its relatively casual approach. Shorter matches, fewer choices to make, less mechanics to master. Although I played it fairly consistently from beta until earlier this year, I'm fairly certain the game's lack of depth was its greatest shortcoming. It is the mashed potatoes of mobas, baby's first moba, etc.

This is like claiming the wider ice surface in international hockey has a superficial effect on the game and the same strategies apply because you ultimately still shoot a puck in a net.

 

[None]

This is like claiming the wider ice surface in international hockey has a superficial effect on the game and the ultimately the same strategies apply because you ultimately still shoot a puck in a net.

If that was the only difference then you'd be right, but I'm speaking holistically and comparatively.

Hots is a relatively simplistic game, compared to its competition. Making the maps less superficial would require more complicated mechanics. A map in Dota with different secret/side shop locations, jungle layouts, warding positions, lane length and safety, tree layout, etc would be impactful because each change would have to be considered in light of the many new options it offers. Different maps in Hots means, at most, a change in lane numbers or where you fight the enemy for the objective and how it might help you win. On larger maps you may want to grab a siege camp earlier than normal before the objective pops, but each phase plays out more or less the same.

 

[sser]

HOTS is understated in a lot of areas. I stopped playing LoL around the time Lee Sin was out, and I've played DotA so I've a taste of their character design, and IMO Heroes' character design blows them out of the water so hard. There's so many interesting designs that really take things to the extremes it feels like an actual evolution of gameplay instead of fancy ways of bubbling-moving-attacking. But, so late to the race, HOTS never stood a chance. Blizzard letting DOTA walk out the door is by far the dumbest decision they ever made and is, in a broader sense, easily one of the worst business moves ever made in the industry.

 

[J1M]

This is like claiming the wider ice surface in international hockey has a superficial effect on the game and the ultimately the same strategies apply because you ultimately still shoot a puck in a net.

If that was the only difference then you'd be right, but I'm speaking holistically and comparatively.

Hots is a relatively simplistic game, compared to its competition. Making the maps less superficial would require more complicated mechanics. A map in Dota with different secret/side shop locations, jungle layouts, warding positions, lane length and safety, tree layout, etc would be impactful because each change would have to be considered in light of the many new options it offers. Different maps in Hots means, at most, a change in lane numbers or where you fight the enemy for the objective and how it might help you win. On larger maps you may want to grab a siege camp earlier than normal before the objective pops, but each phase plays out more or less the same.

Given the evolution of other games, I don't think it had enough competitive pressure on it long enough to make any definitive statements about how important map differences are.

 

[None]

This is like claiming the wider ice surface in international hockey has a superficial effect on the game and the ultimately the same strategies apply because you ultimately still shoot a puck in a net.

If that was the only difference then you'd be right, but I'm speaking holistically and comparatively.

Hots is a relatively simplistic game, compared to its competition. Making the maps less superficial would require more complicated mechanics. A map in Dota with different secret/side shop locations, jungle layouts, warding positions, lane length and safety, tree layout, etc would be impactful because each change would have to be considered in light of the many new options it offers. Different maps in Hots means, at most, a change in lane numbers or where you fight the enemy for the objective and how it might help you win. On larger maps you may want to grab a siege camp earlier than normal before the objective pops, but each phase plays out more or less the same.

Given the evolution of other games, I don't think it had enough competitive pressure on it long enough to make any definitive statements about how important map differences are.

Which is my point, the game is uncompetitive by design. And of course nothing about what I say is definitive, but just based on my experiences with hots/dota/hon.

 

[Axel_am]

HOTS is understated in a lot of areas. I stopped playing LoL around the time Lee Sin was out, and I've played DotA so I've a taste of their character design, and IMO Heroes' character design blows them out of the water so hard. There's so many interesting designs that really take things to the extremes it feels like an actual evolution of gameplay instead of fancy ways of bubbling-moving-attacking. But, so late to the race, HOTS never stood a chance. Blizzard letting DOTA walk out the door is by far the dumbest decision they ever made and is, in a broader sense, easily one of the worst business moves ever made in the industry.

Well DotA has to balance the heroes with the items in the store. HOTS doesn't have to do that as there are no items. I don't think it would have been that easy for Blizz to just keep the rights to DotA. Valve is a force to be reckoned with after all.

 

[Lucumo]

HOTS is understated in a lot of areas. I stopped playing LoL around the time Lee Sin was out, and I've played DotA so I've a taste of their character design, and IMO Heroes' character design blows them out of the water so hard. There's so many interesting designs that really take things to the extremes it feels like an actual evolution of gameplay instead of fancy ways of bubbling-moving-attacking. But, so late to the race, HOTS never stood a chance. Blizzard letting DOTA walk out the door is by far the dumbest decision they ever made and is, in a broader sense, easily one of the worst business moves ever made in the industry.

I don't think it would have been that easy for Blizz to just keep the rights to DotA.

Pretty sure they never had any rights to DotA at all, apart from the hero designs, item drawings and some item names. It's why people got annoyed that Stracraft II's ToS said that everything created with the editor belongs to Blizzard. And Valve had always had a knack for securing other people's work (CS, TF, L4D, Portal etc) to make them fat money.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Why did they even spend money on such a Blizzcon is beyond me. So many wasted work hours and money.

 

[Hellraiser]

Why did they even spend money on such a Blizzcon is beyond me. So many wasted work hours and money.

Waste of money? Probably way cheaper considering exposure and hype than paying off journos or buying ads for each announcement individually, especially that the convention center rental and preparation cost probably pays for itself from the selling of tickets to fanboys.

Hours wasted? Sure, except those hours are marketing and PR team hours and those people need to constantly invent bullshit to keep up appearances that they're not overstaffed and not doing anything useful.

 

[Nathir]

HOTS is understated in a lot of areas. I stopped playing LoL around the time Lee Sin was out, and I've played DotA so I've a taste of their character design, and IMO Heroes' character design blows them out of the water so hard. There's so many interesting designs that really take things to the extremes it feels like an actual evolution of gameplay instead of fancy ways of bubbling-moving-attacking. But, so late to the race, HOTS never stood a chance. Blizzard letting DOTA walk out the door is by far the dumbest decision they ever made and is, in a broader sense, easily one of the worst business moves ever made in the industry.

Evolution of gameplay? How? Removing mechanics and making everything slow as fuck? Lmfao.

 

[GrainWetski]

HOTS is quite literally the most dumbed down version of the genre(not counting some obscure ones that were never even semi-popular) somehow even worse than LoL. Evolution in true Blizzturd fashion, indeed.

 

[sser]

HOTS is understated in a lot of areas. I stopped playing LoL around the time Lee Sin was out, and I've played DotA so I've a taste of their character design, and IMO Heroes' character design blows them out of the water so hard. There's so many interesting designs that really take things to the extremes it feels like an actual evolution of gameplay instead of fancy ways of bubbling-moving-attacking. But, so late to the race, HOTS never stood a chance. Blizzard letting DOTA walk out the door is by far the dumbest decision they ever made and is, in a broader sense, easily one of the worst business moves ever made in the industry.

Evolution of gameplay? How? Removing mechanics and making everything slow as fuck? Lmfao.

Vastly more interesting characters with mechanics that break the design walls.

By the time I stopped playing LoL, it felt like a sludge of vomited char design. DOTA's got its very high points, but there are certain characters in HOTS that really got my attention (and yes, I'm aware some of these are similar to chars in DotA).

Ragnarok --> becoming towers
Tracer --> recall mechanic
Cho'gall --> literally two players in one character
Rexxar --> two-in-one w/ tank leashed to DPS
Lost Vikings --> three different characters
Murky --> extremely low HP char that revives fast by hiding eggs
Characters like Zagara/Probe replicating Starcraft mechanics of building on territories
Chen --> drink/tanking over time mechanic from Warcraft monk + general gameplay style being very atypical for a tank
Abathur --> a practically zero HP slug that lives atop other heroes or can clone heroes


This is just a few. A lot of ordinary archetypes still often carry atypical designs, particularly with the support characters who come in all shapes and forms. Also, I personally was a fan of the maps that are designed to draw characters directly to battle instead of the pitter-patter footsie/economy gameplay. I get some people love that shit and MOBA fans are rabidly defensive over their game's mechanics, but I'm over it. I mostly come from competitive RTS games like C&C or Company of Heroes where fighting over map-points felt like a way more natural vector to getting interesting gameplay. I'd played enough of LoL and DotA to have lost god knows how many chunks of 30-45mins to some shitbird ally to no longer be enthused to the OG designs. HOTS has plenty of its own faults, of course. This convo is mostly beside the point though as HOTS is dead as fuck and Blizzard itself burned up tons of goodwill with its community ages ago.

 

[Axel_am]

HOTS is quite literally the most dumbed down version of the genre(not counting some obscure ones that were never even semi-popular) somehow even worse than LoL. Evolution in true Blizzturd fashion, indeed.

Well, yeah but it still had a lot of things going for it. At the very least there aren't any 50min+ games in HOTS. That's a really good thing that not a lot of developers do if you think about it.

 

[Dadd]

My prediction: Diablo 1: Resurrected

 

[Hellraiser]

My prediction: Diablo 1: Resurrected

Now that I think about it that's the only game besides Lost Vikings 2 that they didn't re-release. Even Rock n Roll racing and Blackthorne got PS4, xbawks one and Switch versions a while back. Rather baffling, I doubt they're not doing it solely not to piss off the DevilutionX people. Then again it's not like Blizzard has been known for good decisions for who knows how many years now, otherwise we'd get Warcraft IV by now.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

My prediction: Diablo 1: Resurrected

oh yuck. Phone only of course… right?