The Dark Eye Blackguards 2

[Grunker]

I'm still miffed. Did you actually mean that the RNG was the 'defining element' of Blackguards 1? From my perspective, that statement is simply utterly false.

And now an 8/10 from Gamespot: http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/blackguards-2-review/1900-6416009/

Just like expected. My curiosity is sated now.

As in, you're giving up on this one?

Blackguards 2 is probably still going to be the first thing I play when this thesis-thing is over.

 

[Infinitron]

stuff

Thanks for the feature list, but it'd be better if you stuck to the issue(s) we were discussing.

Was there ever any debate at Daedalic about how exactly the RNG should be defanged? For example, did you immediately decide that you were just going to turn dodging into "Parry #2", or did somebody try to suggest a more moderate approach?

 

[GrainWetski]

These are some surprisingly high review scores. Hopefully for Daedalic, they will translate into increased sales numbers too. Some people do not want to play sequels of games they have not played/finished in the first place, so this might be an obstacle in a way.

Hopefully it doesn't, so there's a chance that they learn a valuable lesson.

 

[Gord]

Yes, Blackguards 2 isn’t as dependent on luck anymore. Maybe you liked this about Blackguards 1, but maybe you haven’t lost a map 17 times in a row, unable to figure out if you’re making the wrong tactical choices or are just unlucky. That's the thing about games that rely heavily on RNG: Your experience and level of frustration doesn't translate to the whole community at all. I believe this design decision has already been heavily discussed in another thread.

"Liked it" is the wrong term. I didn't see it as a problem and consider it part of the (c)RPG experience.
The few cases I did lose maps "17 times in a row" was because imho the map in question had been questionably designed (example: early 2nd chapter has your low-level, under-equipped chars fighting against superior, fully equipped enemies; or the infamous crypt-lice fight in the flashback scene - although actually that one DID have a strategy that made it much easier). In such a case the RNG can and will screw you over and there's not much you can do about it except for re-trying. But as I said, I consider this more a problem with the design of this map. And I guess when you design dozens fights, many good, some great, inevitably some of them will not work as well. That had me raging a few times, but it didn't make me dislike your game.
Of course some fights were hard. Some worked better than others. But usually the "trick" was finding the right strategy and using the right skills, not getting lucky.

Granted, I have some experience with DSA, both on computers and as PnP, but I'm certainly no expert player in strategy/tactics games and neither do I spend hours theory-crafting optimal min-max builds. Still I found it an enjoyable game with a very good difficulty level.
But you are right of course, me and a couple of others here liking it doesn't mean most other players did.

Now, I guess I will play part 2 eventually, so I'll withhold my final judgement until then. As I had said before, if the battles are done well again, the game can still be fun as a tactics game with some mild rpg elements, even when I would have preferred it had you stayed closer to BG1 in some aspects.

 

[Bubbles]

Currently in 36th place on Steam with 59% postiive reviews.

sample review:

Firstly the same as the first one, these guys have learned nothing at all from the first game, the balance is horendous, really dire. You could start with say 5 on your side, but the enemy could start with say double that, and they keep respawning, calling reinforcments as well as the scripted stuff during the fight, it just becomes anoying that you may actually sit there swearing at your monitor, and this is on easy mode too, so much for easy mode huh.

You dont really have much freedom in the combat too, with only one right way to finish it really, as for now being able to choose who starts where, this is pathetic, you can only really place them where you would start anyways...like wtf?

Parts of the game is even in german still???

Finally, bugs, game breaking bugs, after playing for a good few hours the game will lock up during combat, probably as it spawns so many enemys it gets confused, or the game will go limbo on you waiting for someone to take there turn but they never do.

Word of warning, these lockups can not be sorted with ctrl alt delete, the only way to get rid of it is to hard reset your pc.

Such a shame i love the characters etc in this game, really want to love it, really wanted it to go on and on but with the same problems as the first, then you just got to avoid this game.

If they can make a balance sweep on it , if just for easy mode, and fix the damn game breaking bugs (there are more) then it would be my top TBC game, thats how close they are, but as i said, avoid it as balance is a issue, but you will end up with the game crashing etc at same point and not even being able to play further.

 

[Turjan]

The sad thing about changing fundamental elements of a game in the second installment of a series is that it, most of the time, doesn't work. The people who didn't like your first game won't buy your second game, despite better scores from reviewers, while the people who liked the first game may be disappointed. It happens time and time again that a sequel, even if seen as better by reviewers, just bombs.

And I say this from a neutral standpoint, as I haven't played either installment of Blackguards yet. I was just fearing that deviating from core TDE mechanics is a very dangerous step to take with TDE fans. They are usually very unappreciative if they hear anything like that.

 

[Crooked Bee]

As in, you're giving up on this one?

It was more of a reference to what I said in the staff forum earlier - i.e. that it seemed likely to me that BG2 would be received much better than BG1 by the mainstream press, and so I was curious what the reviews would say and what scores they'd have. My curiosity is satisfied now.

Myself, I'm probably going to give the game a try at some point anyway.

 

[Whisper]

2 CreepyJohn_Daedalic,

Thanks for probably best NPC (voice-overs, especially). Zurbaran and Naurim are best.


p.s.
- I like your boots.
- The feeling is called "envy".

 

[vonAchdorf]

I played a few more battles, and it didn't change my impressions yet. The game feels ok, but definitely not better than BG1.

Evolution: We have a strategic map where you need to plan your campaign and route with every location giving you different benefits (like giving you new equipment for certain types of mercenaries, giving your merchant additional supplies, giving you completely new types of mercenaries, etc).

I'm not that far yet, but unless there are time & resource constraints, the optimal strategy would always be capture everything before going in for the final kill. I'm not that far in yet, and I assume, that later the differences will matter more, but in the beginning it doesn't really matter if I conquer the fishing village first or the fortress.

Revolution: There is the stamina bar, which gives you a different of view on special maneuvers, like hammerblow or trippleshot. In Blackguards you could spam hammerblow and tripleshots endless times. Now you have to choose how often you want to use those maneuvers. Use weaker maneuvers more often or only hammerblow three times? It’s your choice.

That's imo a sensible addition, in BG1 hammer blow was almost always the optimal choice.

Evolution: There are chests and special enemies with additional loot on battlemaps, so there are exploration elements on the battlefield now.

You already had chests in BG1 and more often than not, they weren't / aren't really worth it (mostly a few ducats in BG1 - unless the chest on the ancient battle field where you found useful equipment). In regards to the chests, there should be a tradeoff other than "don't kill the last enemy until we opened them", where boredom is the only reason to no open them (only the flight maps require a strategic decision when it comes to chests). The messengers/couriers are better, with them you actually have to change your strategy to catch them.

Revolution: Yes, we also have a fixed protagonist now. We decided to do this, because we wanted a deeper and more compelling story. However, the development of the skills of this character is totally up to you.

It's a matter of personal preferences, I can't say that I enjoy playing Cassia more than the hero in the last game. Being kind of a LARPer in cRPGs, getting behind a soliloquizing lunatic takes a bit more effort, but it's certainly not something I would hold against the game.

Evolution: We have completely new types of enemies with different types of movement (pushing you of bridges and cliffs, flying around the map, etc.).

I like the new enemies, also details like that you can target the hornet's nests on the Jestertrees separately. I'll have yet to see though, if the teleporting insectoids will be overused as an easy cop out for the AI to introduce some difficulty.

 

[Mortmal]

Currently in 36th place on Steam with 59% postiive reviews.

sample review:

It's true theres a few maps with infinite respawns, those are a chore , just doing it one right now. Once again its easy to figure the strat, i have a feeling of deja vu, move the characters to the crystals and destroy them then flee. However those crystals seems to be resistant to blunt weapons and i cannot change the equipement .Those crystals take two turns to destroy and while you are doing that ,once again with the few units able to, an enemy caster is slowing you even more ,paralyzing , making it even more tedious and impossible unless very lucky. Enemies spawning and spawning again , with full health regen each turn, blocking any escape route , respawning faster than you kill them.

Either i steam roll the maps, or i get one of those dull crystal autoregen infinite enemy maps. The RNG is the least of this game problem.

 

[Bubbles]

However those crystals seems to be resistant to blunt weapons and i cannot change the equipement .

They aren't resistant to blunt, but mage staves and some other weapons do pure magic damage.

The map you're currently on is also the second worst in the game. Shame that it's mandatory and appears at the halfway mark of the game.

 

[Mortmal]

They aren't resistant to blunt, but mage staves and some other weapons do pure magic damage.

I equiped naurim with the bone mace and zubaran has a mage staff, thats already two characters that cant hit them.I dont know if i will be able to make it .

 

[Infinitron]

I suppose a fair review would have to wait a while then.

CreepyJohn_Daedalic Any ETA on the patch?

 

[Gord]

I equiped naurim with the bone mace and zubaran has a mage staff, thats already two characters that cant hit them.I dont know if i will be able to make it .

Can't you switch weapon sets anymore?

 

[vonAchdorf]

Can't you switch weapon sets anymore?

You can. Doesn't help much if the second set is ranged without blunt arrows / bolts though.

 

[Gord]

True dat.

 

[twincast]

re RNG:
Tabletop RPG: I abhor dice rolling in character creation/advancement, but want it in every other action of note (due to game master + group experience).
Computer RPG: I abhor it in pretty much everything (I'll save-scum your damn locks and dialogs with RNG like nobody's business without feeling the slightest bit bad about it.) other than combat, in which I enjoy the feeling of being (un)lucky on a particular roll (as long as I understand the whys and hows). Combat being more than a single sword-slash, I do not feel compelled to reload after just one bad roll, and RNG serves to simulate all the small potential movements during the frenzy of fighting.

re archer Takate needed:
Well, for what it's worth, I have the special retail edition with strategy guide booklet. The first part covers the prologue in some detail; didn't bother with it. The second part has general advice that is very much "duh" for anyone with any experience. And the last few pages give one tip each for dealing with the monster types and several highly suggested spells etc. for each of the three surviving Defeaters of the Nine Hordes, including making Zurbaran an armored mage and making Takate a bowman.

 

[Mortmal]

Doesnt help, that map design is just plain sadistic, starting to regreat the purchase now 14 hours in.

 

[Severian Silk]

Can someone upload the game manual for me? I would like to take a look.

 

[Darth Roxor]

starting to regreat the purchase now 14 hours in.

uh-oh

 

[Bubbles]

Looking at the Steam achievements:

- all the ones involving the "lure a creature into a circle and dominate it with a melody" puzzles are sitting at 0.1%. Just a completely useless mechanic.
- 62% of players have recruited Zurby and Takate, but only 46% have recruited Naurim, which takes about ten minutes extra. His mission is too hard!
- 38.4% have recruited the army, that's about 3-4 hours into the game.
- 8.1% of players have killed two of the game's world bosses (roughly the halfway mark of the game, takes about 8-9 hours)
- 2% have cleared the world map, and 1.6% have reached the epilogue.

Let's see how these develop over time.

 

[twincast]

- 62% of players have recruited Zurby and Takate, but only 46% have recruited Naurim, which takes about ten minutes extra. His mission is too hard!

Anyone doubting that's because of people trying to make a stand despite the game explicitly telling you to make a run for it and (rather leisurely, I might add) open as many treasure chests on the way as you can?

 

[Gord]

Maybe wait a few days before making too many assumptions based on Steam achievements...

 

[Bubbles]

Maybe wait a few days before making too many assumptions based on Steam achievements...

Let's see how these develop over time.

 

[Mortmal]

uh-oh

Tell me.. theres harder maps ?

Looking at the Steam achievements:

- all the ones involving the "lure a creature into a circle and dominate it with a melody" puzzles are sitting at 0.1%. Just a completely useless mechanic.
- 62% of players have recruited Zurby and Takate, but only 46% have recruited Naurim, which takes about ten minutes extra. His mission is too hard!
- 38.4% have recruited the army, that's about 3-4 hours into the game.
- 8.1% of players have killed two of the game's world bosses (roughly the halfway mark of the game, takes about 8-9 hours)
- 2% have cleared the world map, and 1.6% have reached the epilogue.

Let's see how these develop over time.

8.1% have killed two game wolrd bosses, ok i am further than that and i bet most will be stuck on the 5 crystal maps, i did it by sheer luck. If one of my character was incapacited one turn more it was over, sheer luck! Keepng mutiple saves as my trust is low.