Decline Bethesda Appreciation Thread

[Indranys]

A clip from The Venerable, Most Honorable Sole Emperor of Earth, Champion of Mankind, The Bringer of Incline, Todd Howard I: A documentary.

That's another Citizen Kane material right there mate. My tears won't stop flowing godammit!

http://images.uesp.net/f/fb/SR-img-Development_Team.jpg

I always thought that the team was too small for such an AAA caliber game.
Didn't Rockstar (its developer department) need 300-400 people for their GTAs?? And I'm sure Volition employed 300+ gamemakers to create SRIV.
Or am I wrong??
Some bros please enlighten me.

 

[Infinitron]

Hasn't it been painfully obvious that Bethesda games are made on the cheap? They aren't heavy on cinematics and stuff like that. Just lots and lots of terrain.

 

[Indranys]

Hasn't it been painfully obvious that Bethesda games are made on the cheap? They aren't heavy on cinematics and stuff like that. Just lots and lots of terrain.

Cheap on what??
On a quick browsing I find that they spent around 50-80 million on Skyrim's development alone not including the PR budget.
The press or the public even hyped it to 100 million at some point.
Also, aren't 3D open world games relatively more costly than linear corridor shooters/non open world games?
And Zenimax/Bethesda softworks isn't a cheapskate on their development budget AFAIK.
So sorry, not too obvious for me, it seems.

If you mean big budget doesn't necessarily mean as a big development team, then I think I got it. Their team still relatively small for an open world game though.

 

[Infinitron]

Also, aren't 3D open world games relatively more costly than linear corridor shooters/non open world games?

According to Feargus Urquhart, no: http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8973
http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/111...of-the-industry-and-obsidian-at-kri-2013.html

 

[Indranys]

According to Feargus Urquhart, no: http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8973
http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/111...of-the-industry-and-obsidian-at-kri-2013.html

Thanks man.

Feargus also explains that games like The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and Fallout: New Vegas are actually exceptions to the trend of bloated budgets and teams he explained earlier, and are actually relatively cheap to develop, certainly cheaper than what people believe

But I do talk about those bloated games like Skyrim.
60 million which was hyped to 100 million is still a big budget nonetheless, certainly still in a big budget AAAwesome category.
Any second opinion from the other devs?? From a Rockstar thrall or another open world developers maybe?

 

[Rake]

Also, aren't 3D open world games relatively more costly than linear corridor shooters/non open world games?

According to Feargus Urquhart, no: http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8973
http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/111...of-the-industry-and-obsidian-at-kri-2013.html

Maybe Feargus meant games like New:Vegas that are made with reusing material from other games and not built from the ground up.

 

[Rake]

According to Feargus Urquhart, no: http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8973
http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/111...of-the-industry-and-obsidian-at-kri-2013.html

Thanks man.

Feargus also explains that games like The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and Fallout: New Vegas are actually exceptions to the trend of bloated budgets and teams he explained earlier, and are actually relatively cheap to develop, certainly cheaper than what people believe

But I do talk about those bloated games like Skyrim.
60 million which was hyped to 100 million is still a big budget nonetheless, certainly still in a big budget AAAwesome category.
Any second opinion from the other devs?? From a Rockstar thrall or another open world developers maybe?

Sure, it's cheap compaired to GTA's 200+ million or Assasin's Creed 1000 person team. But i don't think you can call it "cheap" per se.

 

[Infinitron]

Rockstar games have extensive cinematic scenes, so it's not quite the same thing. Also, big cities aren't as easy to procedurally generate as fantasy or post-apocalyptic terrain.

Maybe Feargus meant games like New:Vegas that are made with reusing material from other games and not built from the ground up.

I'm sure, but he specifically mentioned Skyrim too, not just New Vegas.

Remember, it's not just about reusing stuff from previous games but also reusing stuff within the same game.

 

[cherry blossom]

Bethesda outsources 3D models, animations, sound effects and textures. And quality of all of these things are horribly inconsistent in their games. They also keep recycling/necroing that shitty game engine for all of their games that is now nearing 15 years of life span. Their only saving grace is the moddability.

 

[Turisas]

Bethesda outsources 3D models, animations, sound effects and textures.

Some, no doubt, but all of it? That can't be right.

 

[Indranys]

Sure, it's cheap compaired to GTA's 200+ million or Assasin's Creed 1000 person team. But i don't think you can call it "cheap" per se.

Indeed, that's what I mean bro.
Why did Todd employed 100 myrmidons men for his team while the Assassin's Creed guy got his 1000 minions for his subjects.
That's what sparks my curiosity. If the cutscenes are THAT expensive/elaborate/demanding, I guess that's a sensible reason.
Or maybe, just maybe, in the name of Crom, Todd did think that a smaller number will be much more efficient than a big bloated team.
And he succeed to accomplish his goals too, a shitload of money, not as shitty as Oblivion but also more streamlined than it etc.
That's our Todd I tell you, never cease to amaze me.

 

[cherry blossom]

Bethesda outsources 3D models, animations, sound effects and textures.

Some, no doubt, but all of it? That can't be right.

Of course not all of it. You can't find anyone outside Bethesda to make those horrid and laughable animations.

Nonetheless, I believe they outsource a good majority of them.

 

[Rake]

Sure, it's cheap compaired to GTA's 200+ million or Assasin's Creed 1000 person team. But i don't think you can call it "cheap" per se.

Indeed, that's what I mean bro.
Why did Todd employed 100 myrmidons men for his team while the Assassin's Creed guy got his 1000 minions for his subjects.
That's what sparks my curiosity. If the cutscenes are THAT expensive/elaborate/demanding, I guess that's a sensible reason.
Or maybe, just maybe, in the name of Crom, Todd did think that a smaller number will be much more efficient than a big bloated team.
And he succeed to accomplish his goals too, a shitload of money, not as shitty as Oblivion but also more streamlined than it etc.
That's our Todd I tell you, never cease to amaze me.

But it had 5 year development time. As far as i know Ubisoft had less than half

 

[Lyric Suite]

There is nothing to understand about Bethesda. They truly are that dumb and retarded. One may argue that they found a way to exploit the masses but that doesn't mean they actually know what they are doing. Sometimes even idiots get lucky, and we all know that to make it in any business one needs attitude more than talent or actual knowledge of any kind, and people like Todd Howard have such a gargantuan amount of chutzpah all the more because they are genuinely clueless.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

I remember these countdown videos slowly unrolling one per day before Oblivion came out. They got me so fucking excited, so fucking PUMPED to play that fucking thing.

Then it came out

Heh, I remember these. They really did build anticipation for release incredibly well. My deluxe edition arrived in the mail on the last day of finals for my winter quarter sophomore year of college. I remember being horribly torn between playing the game and studying a bit more for the oral final in honors philosophy class. Ended up blowing off studying further and got through the Imperial sewer before it was to to go to the professor's office for the final. Once there, he had me draw 2 index cards from a stack of 8. The two cards happened to be on articles I HAD studied very closely, and I proceeded to blow him away with erudition, articulation, and preparation. Then I went back to playing. It took about a week or so, about the time full level scaling retardation kicked in, before I started realizing that this game wasn't as good as my first impression.

 

[octavius]

Hasn't it been painfully obvious that Bethesda games are made on the cheap? They aren't heavy on cinematics and stuff like that. Just lots and lots of terrain.

You make it sound like it's a bad thing...

 

[Roguey]

I always thought that the team was too small for such an AAA caliber game.
Didn't Rockstar (its developer department) need 300-400 people for their GTAs?? And I'm sure Volition employed 300+ gamemakers to create SRIV.
Or am I wrong??
Some bros please enlighten me.

Cinematics apparently add quite the number to a team's size. Obsidian's games usually have about 60 at most, Bioware hovers around 150-200 these days, Deus Ex Human Revolution had over 200, Skyrim and Witcher 2 were both made by about 100.

 

[DalekFlay]

And cinematics are pretty much the worse plague on gaming too, so... paying a lot of money to further the decline.

 

[AlexOfSpades]

Oblivion's writing is absolute shit. But then again, every Bethesda game i have played had shit-tier writing. Its just something you shouldnt expect anymore. I have enjoyed it a lot because the best side of that game is also one of my favorite things in games... Exploration. Since i was a kid (playing Super Metroid and trying to get 100%) i have enjoyed games with exploration and as i grew up this has always been something that i loved. I started getting into urbex and parkour, started visiting ghost towns, started camping and hiking or even just leaving the house at 2 AM and wandering into neighbourhoods i have never been before. Exploring the world is something i have always loved, and even the most hardcore butthurt *airquotes* oldschool gamers */airquotes* has to agree that Oblivion's world is massive and beautiful. Most of the time i spent in the game wasnt in those shitty towns filled with ugly people and retarded conversations, no. It was trekking around, climbing on top of a mountain and then looking around for a challenging place to reach. And when i find it, i try to reach there - i sometimes had to stealth past wild animals - just to climb up that hill. And when i did it, i felt awesome. Because the world i saw there in the background wasnt just a texture with an invisible wall - no, it was an ACTUAL PLACE i could go to. And it was actually populated, was it by small towns or dungeons filled with monsters. As boring and repetitive as they were, they still existed and it felt (at least for me) great to walk for days until i found a hidden, untouched ancient Ayleid ruin. And i slept on the camp nearby, watching the beautiful sunset, then ventured inside the dungeon with my torch, unsure of what dangers i would find. Have you ever seen how many hidden chests are around the world, underneath waterfalls or littered around unmarked, destroyed fortresses?

When i say i like Oblivion, i dont mean i think its a 10/10 game. It just means i'm able to look past all the flaws and find something i can appreciate and have fun with. I have also enjoyed Fallout 3 a lot, because of the same reason. People focus on the main quest and complain that its bad and then trash the game. That's not how i do it. I just shrug and forget about the main quest - there is a whole world for me to explore, littered with interesting locations.

A tip: Next time you play Oblivion, mod the shit out of it and as soon as you start the game (preferably with the ship start mod) type on console, "/tmm 0". This will remove all fast travel markers, so you actually have to travel to the cities on foot first. Take your time, relax and explore - see the beautiful world, breath the fresh air, see the butterflies. Its really nice to explore, and quite immersive. Oh, and try Shivering Isles. God, everything Oblivion did wrong Shivering Isles did right.

edit: inb4 mommy he likes something i dont, ban him pls

 

[chestburster]

For one thing, I applaud Bethesda for publishing Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corner of the Earth.

 

[Rake]

Oblivion's writing is absolute shit. But then again, every Bethesda game i have played had shit-tier writing. Its just something you shouldnt expect anymore. I have enjoyed it a lot because the best side of that game is also one of my favorite things in games... Exploration. Since i was a kid (playing Super Metroid and trying to get 100%) i have enjoyed games with exploration and as i grew up this has always been something that i loved. I started getting into urbex and parkour, started visiting ghost towns, started camping and hiking or even just leaving the house at 2 AM and wandering into neighbourhoods i have never been before. Exploring the world is something i have always loved, and even the most hardcore butthurt *airquotes* oldschool gamers */airquotes* has to agree that Oblivion's world is massive and beautiful. Most of the time i spent in the game wasnt in those shitty towns filled with ugly people and retarded conversations, no. It was trekking around, climbing on top of a mountain and then looking around for a challenging place to reach. And when i find it, i try to reach there - i sometimes had to stealth past wild animals - just to climb up that hill. And when i did it, i felt awesome. Because the world i saw there in the background wasnt just a texture with an invisible wall - no, it was an ACTUAL PLACE i could go to. And it was actually populated, was it by small towns or dungeons filled with monsters. As boring and repetitive as they were, they still existed and it felt (at least for me) great to walk for days until i found a hidden, untouched ancient Ayleid ruin. And i slept on the camp nearby, watching the beautiful sunset, then ventured inside the dungeon with my torch, unsure of what dangers i would find. Have you ever seen how many hidden chests are around the world, underneath waterfalls or littered around unmarked, destroyed fortresses?

When i say i like Oblivion, i dont mean i think its a 10/10 game. It just means i'm able to look past all the flaws and find something i can appreciate and have fun with. I have also enjoyed Fallout 3 a lot, because of the same reason. People focus on the main quest and complain that its bad and then trash the game. That's not how i do it. I just shrug and forget about the main quest - there is a whole world for me to explore, littered with interesting locations.

A tip: Next time you play Oblivion, mod the shit out of it and as soon as you start the game (preferably with the ship start mod) type on console, "/tmm 0". This will remove all fast travel markers, so you actually have to travel to the cities on foot first. Take your time, relax and explore - see the beautiful world, breath the fresh air, see the butterflies. Its really nice to explore, and quite immersive. Oh, and try Shivering Isles. God, everything Oblivion did wrong Shivering Isles did right.

edit: inb4 mommy he likes something i dont, ban him pls

Exploration is the one and only thing they do well. If a hiking simulator is something that is appealing to you, then you can have fun with their games, even if you recognise that they are objectivly bad.
But if hiking isn't your thing, their games have nothing else to offer.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Oblivion's writing is absolute shit. But then again, every Bethesda game i have played had shit-tier writing.

The vast majority of games have shit writing.

Oh, and try Shivering Isles. God, everything Oblivion did wrong Shivering Isles did right.

Jimbob's LP proves that's...not quite true. Sometimes it gets wrong some of the good things about the vanilla game (you like open skies? Have a series of caves for the main quest). The derpness was enhanced because he did it at level 1 though, which highlighted the unbearable horrors of the level scaling.

 

[Night Goat]

For one thing, I applaud Bethesda for publishing Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corner of the Earth.

I forgot all about that game. How is it?

 

[chestburster]

For one thing, I applaud Bethesda for publishing Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corner of the Earth.

I forgot all about that game. How is it?

It's decent. Has some amazing levels (Innsmouth escape and battling the Flying Polyp with the Yith weapon) and many bad levels. But it's the only Lovecraft game with modern graphics on the market so if you're a fan, you have to play it.

 

[RK47]

Up for community awareness.