Best thread ever.

[Zomg]

Just to show that there is hope in the TES forums:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=376647

It's really a good read, and it may make you feel less lonely in your quest for choice and consequence.

I liked the guy in that thread who uses a picture of Schopenhauer as an avatar on the TES forums.

 

[OverrideB1]

And I'm sure a lot of ppl would buy TES 5, BUT with lower expectation on their AI and Dialogues.

I have zero expectations for TESV as a RPG. As a hack 'n' slash hiking simulator, it'll probably be pretty much okay but actual role-playing elements? You can pretty much forget those -- along with any semblance of decent writing for the quest-lines and any actual decision-making by the player.

So many recent commercial RPGs have been so disappointing -- shallow, pale shadows of what they should have been given the way technology has advanced -- that I now truly believe that the genre is going the way of the dodo: at least as far as game companies are concerned. RTS and indie-produced RPGs look to be the only way forwards

 

[RK47]

Hmmm...I dunno man, something like Quest for Glory would be really good. with Oblivion engine (!)

But you're right though. The days of good dialogue and multiple choices may be getting less and lesser. But I think TES just went into one path of their own, ignoring whatever their old fans wanted in favor of capturing the console market.

 

[LlamaGod]

People have trouble seperating Open-Ended, Free-Form and Non-Linear from each other, apparently.

All in all, I fail to see how you can do roleplaying of ANY sort, wether it be real roleplaying or semi-LARPing when every single on of your characters you play talks the exact same and choses the same exact choices (the only ones you ever have).

You can run around being a mass murderer nord vampire with one character and the other you'll be a wood elf archer and you'll both talk the same and pick the same options.

How the fuck is that not damaging?

 

[Section8]

ES V would have to do something pretty fucking impressive to warrant a purchase. Oblivion isn't even particularly compelling as an exploration or dress up game, since each location is practically identical for a player of equal level, and when it comes to dress up, I can't combine clothes and armour, I have less armour slots, and by the time I can wear something impressive... so is every other motherfucker in the world.

Even the discovery side of finding out what each of the many aspects of the game is like is pretty fucking dire.

"Wow! Stealth gameplay sounds cool, let's give that a go!"

<half an hour later>

"Hmmm, this is quite repetitive. I'm going to try some Destruction magic, that should be fucking awesome!"

<half an hour later>

"Damn, it's just like a bad FPS. What about alchemy? I'm going to travel around, nab some ingredients and experiment with potions!"

<half an hour later>

"Okay, I can't actually experiment with alchemy, since it automatically matches up ingredients, and only utilises the visible effects. Errrr, let's see...what about the Arena? Let's give that a run."

<an hour later>

"Who'd have thought becoming grand champion would be so simple? I can't believe I actually spent a fight farming the arrows my opponent shot into me because I have a bounty of ~8000 and can't get near a store! Hey there's an idea, how about I get caught, and escape from prison!"

<ten minutes later>

"1 lockpick + 17 security + very hard lock = instant escape. It was also kind of handy that I could lockpick the evidence box and get all my gear back while the guards remained frozen in time."

etc.

It might pass the time, but after a while, you come to realise that the long checklist you've worked your way through hasn't really netted a single satisfying aspect of the game.

 

[Rat Keeng]

GBG beat me to it, but it warrants repeating that you go read that thread. Another good'un is this one, if only for awesome quotes like

Oblivion>Morrowind> All other RPGS.
'Nuff said.
There is nothing to be critisiised that isnt understanble and expected.

Last bit's true

 

[RK47]

There is nothing to be criticized about something that you can't understand. and...uh? I don't understand the expected bit.

 

[suibhne]

That thread at ESF is pretty impressive. If they used a lot more profanity, some of those people might even fit in here.

 

[RK47]

which thread. the one where they compare the size of morrowind with oblivion?

 

[RK47]

ok nvm

"Vampires are cool and realistic"

I agree. LOL
and there's :

"Sorry, but after what I have seen with oblivion im glad bethseda got fallout 3. They have the engines for it, AI and physics and what I believe is a good team to make the game actually enjoyable (just keep the dark atmosphere and humor and they will have another reviewer loved game just as they have had with Oblivion)."

i can just imagine it. i run into town with 3-5 mutants chasing me with miniguns and rockets flying over me with havok physics as a bunch of civilians and hapless ghoulies gets blown to bits. O_O and DOGMEAT rendered in 3d ^^

Talks to Village Elder:

Shady Sands
Rumours

*click rumours*

My daughter Tandi has gone missing! Oh dear, have you seen her Stranger?

Shady Sands
Rumours
Tandi

Great dialogue. And then the pizza slice speechcraft mini game to get people to join you lol

 

[Kendar]

An

There were some interesting threads linked before, but they are also polluted by... I don't even know if there are words to describe it... let's call it crap. I would gladly anihilate their "argumentation", but I remembered the article about the PR guys hired by companies to defend the game hiding behind severall fakes usernames at once.

There were numerous times where I saw some "argumentation" and where I wondered how could a human write this crap, how could a human be this blind and dumb, even against the most obvious things, and yet I replied (I remember when I tried to argue with Frankie when I didn't know yet how stupid/blind/whatever he was : bad times), perfectly sure that they wouldn't deny something that easy to understand, or at least conceed it to the "opinion" domain. That surely explain a lot of things.

In the aforelinked threads, really, an opinion is an opinion and each person has his own, but there are limits. I can hardly believe anyone would be that blind. In fact, they could even be very open-minded, I don't know, maybe even hate Oblivion and still say they love it, or whatever, but they are just doing their job... It has been severall months since I didn't bother wasting my time there, but when I learnt why they behaved like that... well, I guess it's humanity.

 

[RK47]

That's why don't post there. I resisted the temptation, the environment seems to swallow so much of the cotton crap candy Bethsoft covered the dialog n speechcraft minigames. They even forget what 'Choices' meant.

'omfg u can just DON'T do the quest #201, there's still 299 quest out there!! that IS 'CHOICE' u tard!!'

Seriously, wtf? That logic alone is already messed up.

 

[User was nabbed fit]

I stopped posting there because the retard/normal person ratio is so ridiculous.

 

[OverrideB1]

While it's true that there are a great number of fucktards on the ESF, the bigger problem is the cyber-fascist attitude of "my opinion is the only one that counts and I'll scream down anyone that disagrees". And, since you have a whole clique of like-minded, close-minded, crap-spouting nimrods gathered together in one place, any semblance of serious criticism goes clean out of the window since even the vaguest approbation is met with howls of "OMFG Oblivion Rulez!!!1! U suk, go play soem other game" repeated until all sensible discussion is drowned out.

I would seriously, seriously like Bethesda to release Daggerfall in the same way they released Arena. Then, just maybe, some of these fuck-wits could see what a real RPG actually looks like

 

[LlamaGod]

(just keep the dark atmosphere and humor

"How to Tell That Someone Talking About Fallout Has Only Played Fallout 2 in One Easy Step"

 

[Relien]

I just have to post this:

Ok I do not get it. I understand it's your opinion but that's all it is. Your opinion. Your word is not law thus the game does not suck. Saying The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is the greatest game in the history of the universe. is like you being a redsox fan and saying the yankee's sucks when they don't.

You are disapointed in the game, thats fine. You can hate it, thats fine. But for christ sakes, don't say the game sucks when it doesn't. It's your opinion. Not the actuall fact of the game.

And people who do say it sucks are to stupid to convey their feelings of the games without demeening it in anyway. All I can say is; Take a english writing class, morons.

I usually don't give a damn about grammar and spelling mistakes. It happens. But since he recommends others to take an English class...

I'm saying people shouldn't say it sucks. It's their opinion to hate the game, but not to say its bad when it isn't.

 

[Blahblah Talks]

What do you know, it's not Oblivion related.

 

[Data4]

Yeah, but this one is.

A game like Oblivion can be played without worying about stats and more about exploring and experiencing the world in a more visual, 'physical' way, as well as roleplaying. Yes, I said it, it is MUCH easier to roleplay a character in Oblivion than most other 'hardcore' RPGs out there, and I know a lot of you nay sayers are going to start spouting about dialogue options and linear quests, but thats all bs and if you thought about it you would realize it. It realy comes down to the little things that go on in your own mind and imagination.

-D4

 

[Relien]

A game like Oblivion can be played without worying about stats and more about exploring and experiencing the world in a more visual, 'physical' way, as well as roleplaying.

Yes, I believe the game can be played and really enjoyed that way...

...if you use some good leveling mod instead of playing "naturally" forcing yourself not to think about those multipliers all the time from the moment you learned how they work.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

A game like Oblivion can be played without worying about stats and more about exploring and experiencing the world in a more visual, 'physical' way, as well as roleplaying.

This reminds me of the dissenting voices which at some point emerged in the pen and paper roleplaying scene, which basically proposed freeform roleplaying as a superior method of conventional, game-oriented roleplaying. One of the quibbles was that it was somehow less restrictive - as it didn't rely on rules - and more conductive to creative expression. That's just fine, but the problem is that roleplaying games are not exclusively centered on interactive storytelling. They have rules which need to be used in order to play the game. If people just want to just engage in interactive storytelling then do so, but they should realize it's not necessarily a better approach to roleplaying, specifically when applied to the context of a roleplaying game which uses rules.

This guy seems to fall in the same field, in the sense that he believes roleplaying is more about roaming and doing what he pleases while using his imagination as one of the ways to enjoy the game as well as of connecting to the character and its interplay between any interactive events in the gameworld. And that's just fine, except he's doing it in the wrong medium which in the end just renders it useless. Gawking at the scenery in Oblivion or any other game isn't roleplaying, and neither is using imagination in a medium that can not apply it to gameplay. If he wants to imagine he's the faerie blood prince ninja of the wasteland be my guest; just don't tell me it means a damn in Oblivion because it doesn't.

 

[kingcomrade]

which basically proposed freeform roleplaying as a superior method of conventional, game-oriented roleplaying.

Isn't that basically LARPing?

 

[El Dee]

I play a ranger, I don't ride horses

I even deny myself the use of two handed swords as they don't fit the way my character exists in my mind

That's the problem with TES, all the roleplaying comes from the player putting restrictions on himself. I don't feel that I am roleplaying when my character can do everything with no penalties whatsoever.

Using this poster's logic one can explain away any fault in the game. One word wiki dialogue responses? No worries, I'm RPing , in my mind all the rich dialogue is there rolling around making me all warm and fuzzy inside. I think I'll go write some fan fic, lol.

 

[Balor]

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... =5817935&#

Well, I would personally think that the glass in TES would hurt like a mother when you got hit with it regardless - simply because it is THE best light armor in the game. It affords the best protection, which therefore means that the material is stronger than most. Further, glass weapons are better than most. It therefore makes perfect sense to me that having a hammer made of material that can stop a steel blade cold would hit extremely hard.

The quote is expecially moronic considering that glass is very light in TES.
I wish I can beat him up with rather soft, but heavy rubber police baton.
After like third broken rib, I guess he'll see the error in his ways. And if not, he'd not be able to type with broken arms! Mwhahahaha!

 

[Nog Robbin]

which basically proposed freeform roleplaying as a superior method of conventional, game-oriented roleplaying.

Isn't that basically LARPing?

Not really. LARPing is still played to rules - your character has stats, skills etc. The differencing between standard RPG and LARPG is that in a LARP you actually have to swing a sword to make contact with the enemy, and defend likewise. The rest of it is much the same - you speak for your character, a DM/GM is present to set the scene and to control things etc.

Freeform roleplaying tends to involve no rules and no restrictions. Consequently there is no challenge other than in writing an engaging story. Nothing can ever "kill" a character unless that character decides to kill himself - as anything thrown at them by another player is just story told away. It can be entertaining in it's way - but eventually it gets weak as characters become more and more god like and nothing ever poses any threat. Even a DM controlled freeform RPG can get quite weak - rules and stats help keep the challenge. Of course, the other option is to have an adventure/scenario in which combat doesn't play a part and in which it's all down to the characters speech - that could be possible. It does depend on all players having a reasonable grasp of a common language, and still would require someone to force some direction or aim upon the adventure, otherwise, once again, there is no challenge.

 

[whitemithrandir]

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... 385922&hl=