KickStarter BATTLETECH - turn-based mech combat from Harebrained Schemes

[Harthwain]

And then you have their technical ineptitude. They are terrible at getting their shit to run and you just have to wade through and try to enjoy the rest of what they have made. For Shadowrun it's worth it. For Battletech, it isn't.

I don't agree with this bit. I think the main reason Battletech isn't as good as it could have been lies in how they handled the weights of the mechs, not in their "technical ineptitude".

Instead of allowing you to drop as many mechs as you can (max drop weight limit + however many mechwarriors you have at the moment) in order to try to outmaneuver and outnumber the opponents, you are limited to a certain maximum number of mechs. So you want to drop the heaviest mechs possible, always, especially considering you are going to be outnumbered yourself, because reasons. This is limiting player's strategical options for no good reason (is this tabletop limitation or something?). 4 mechs in a lance is not great number at all. Why not give player the ability to command 2-3 lances? You could also make the player take part in larger battles between factions, where you could play key role by tipping the balance, instead of doing literally all of the work.

Besides that, I would love a proper large-scale strategy game based on Battletech.

 

[FreshCorpse]

And then you have their technical ineptitude. They are terrible at getting their shit to run and you just have to wade through and try to enjoy the rest of what they have made. For Shadowrun it's worth it. For Battletech, it isn't.

I don't agree with this bit. I think the main reason Battletech isn't as good as it could have been lies in how they handled the weights of the mechs, not in their "technical ineptitude".

Instead of allowing you to drop as many mechs as you can (max drop weight limit + however many mechwarriors you have at the moment) in order to try to outmaneuver and outnumber the opponents, you are limited to a certain maximum number of mechs. So you want to drop the heaviest mechs possible, always, especially considering you are going to be outnumbered yourself, because reasons. This is limiting player's strategical options for no good reason (is this tabletop limitation or something?). 4 mechs in a lance is not great number at all. Why not give player the ability to command 2-3 lances? You could also make the player take part in larger battles between factions, where you could play key role by tipping the balance, instead of doing literally all of the work.

Besides that, I would love a proper large-scale strategy game based on Battletech.

No, I think we are in total agreement. I'm saying that the core problem with Battletech is that the mechanics are weak - as you said: the moronic "4 mechs" rule instead of a weight based system. The fact that the runtime is awful is just extra really.

 

[Cael]

And then you have their technical ineptitude. They are terrible at getting their shit to run and you just have to wade through and try to enjoy the rest of what they have made. For Shadowrun it's worth it. For Battletech, it isn't.

I don't agree with this bit. I think the main reason Battletech isn't as good as it could have been lies in how they handled the weights of the mechs, not in their "technical ineptitude".

Instead of allowing you to drop as many mechs as you can (max drop weight limit + however many mechwarriors you have at the moment) in order to try to outmaneuver and outnumber the opponents, you are limited to a certain maximum number of mechs. So you want to drop the heaviest mechs possible, always, especially considering you are going to be outnumbered yourself, because reasons. This is limiting player's strategical options for no good reason (is this tabletop limitation or something?). 4 mechs in a lance is not great number at all. Why not give player the ability to command 2-3 lances? You could also make the player take part in larger battles between factions, where you could play key role by tipping the balance, instead of doing literally all of the work.

Besides that, I would love a proper large-scale strategy game based on Battletech.

Performance is already fucked at 4 'mechs. You want them to allow 8-12?

 

[Average Manatee]

I don't think its necessarily related to how many mechs are on the board. Performance is awful whether its just your 4 mechs or there's also a dozen enemy targets present. There's just some incredibly awful overhead and processing that is done for every time you make an action. The game fucking stutters bringing up the SHOOT AT THE DAMN TARGET UI ELEMENT. This is not related to some graphically or processor-demanding task, this is just an incredible fuckup of an awful programmer. They need someone who can competently profile the amount of time various functions take up, find the one that is taking approximately 1000x more CPU time than it would if written correctly, and fix it.

I doubt that any super high level programming wizardly would be required to get them game just running decent. An excellent programmer could probably cut load times by 90% and make an option to make AI turns effectively instant. But just making basic gameplay not stutter is all I'm asking.

 

[Cael]

I don't think its necessarily related to how many mechs are on the board. Performance is awful whether its just your 4 mechs or there's also a dozen enemy targets present. There's just some incredibly awful overhead and processing that is done for every time you make an action. The game fucking stutters bringing up the SHOOT AT THE DAMN TARGET UI ELEMENT. This is not related to some graphically or processor-demanding task, this is just an incredible fuckup of an awful programmer. They need someone who can competently profile the amount of time various functions take up, find the one that is taking approximately 1000x more CPU time than it would if written correctly, and fix it.

I doubt that any super high level programming wizardly would be required to get them game just running decent. An excellent programmer could probably cut load times by 90% and make an option to make AI turns effectively instant. But just making basic gameplay not stutter is all I'm asking.

They did say that they restricted the maps to a small portion of a large one in order to not blow up people's computers. They even bragged about how they managed to do it in such a way that players don't even realise it is the same map over and over.

It points to a problem with stuff on the screen to me.

 

[Average Manatee]

They did say that they restricted the maps to a small portion of a large one in order to not blow up people's computers. They even bragged about how they managed to do it in such a way that players don't even realise it is the same map over and over.

It points to a problem with stuff on the screen to me.

But you have to keep in mind that the people who did that are also the same incompetent people who can't fix the problem in the first place. They can't be judged capable of understanding why their game has problems and performs poorly because otherwise they'd be able to fix it. Programmed by someone of even average competence the engine should be stuttering exactly the same with 4 mechs onscreen as with 40 mechs on screen, which is to say not at all.

 

[Cael]

They did say that they restricted the maps to a small portion of a large one in order to not blow up people's computers. They even bragged about how they managed to do it in such a way that players don't even realise it is the same map over and over.

It points to a problem with stuff on the screen to me.

But you have to keep in mind that the people who did that are also the same incompetent people who can't fix the problem in the first place. They can't be judged capable of understanding why their game has problems and performs poorly because otherwise they'd be able to fix it. Programmed by someone of even average competence the engine should be stuttering exactly the same with 4 mechs onscreen as with 40 mechs on screen, which is to say not at all.

Of course. But we are not talking competent people. We are talking tranny soibois who screamed at how they are not appreciated when they made the game FOR YOOOOOUUUUU!!!!!

 

[Shitty Kitty]

I think the funniest thing is that someone made a mod for MW5M that, aside from not being turn-based, does Battletech better than HBS (even if that's a low bar to clear). And it'll probably get better once people start figuring out how to make custom maps, scenarios and campaigns with triggers. They might even figure out a way to make it turn-based. I haven't checked on it in a while, but the work they're doing is impressive - the start of a silk purse from a sow's ear.

 

[Cael]

I think the funniest thing is that someone made a mod for MW5M that, aside from not being turn-based, does Battletech better than HBS (even if that's a low bar to clear). And it'll probably get better once people start figuring out how to make custom maps, scenarios and campaigns with triggers. They might even figure out a way to make it turn-based. I haven't checked on it in a while, but the work they're doing is impressive - the start of a silk purse from a sow's ear.

Buying the base game to play a mod is putting money into the pockets of arrogant fucktard cunts who don't deserve it. Pass!

 

[Agesilaus]

The game is already fucked due to the way they altered the btech rules. Playing megamek is a thousand times better, the only downside is the lack of all the bells and whistles and the Pokémon collect 'em all campaign experience.

Mods fix the rules a lot and add a ton of mechs, weapons, and lore, but the performance and simplistic game play loop/campaign ultimately kills the deal. Which is truly unfortunate, because Btech is one of the best game universes out there. It's still going strong after all these decades, as the recent Clan Invasion Kickstarter proved, so maybe we'll get a worthy video game title yet.

 

[Cael]

The game is already fucked due to the way they altered the btech rules. Playing megamek is a thousand times better, the only downside is the lack of all the bells and whistles and the Pokémon collect 'em all campaign experience.

Mods fix the rules a lot and add a ton of mechs, weapons, and lore, but the performance and simplistic game play loop/campaign ultimately kills the deal. Which is truly unfortunate, because Btech is one of the best game universes out there. It's still going strong after all these decades, as the recent Clan Invasion Kickstarter proved, so maybe we'll get a worthy video game title yet.

I wish there was a way to easily add your own weapons and alter armour in MegaMek. It would be so much more fun.

 

[lightbane]

I don't think its necessarily related to how many mechs are on the board. Performance is awful whether its just your 4 mechs or there's also a dozen enemy targets present. There's just some incredibly awful overhead and processing that is done for every time you make an action. The game fucking stutters bringing up the SHOOT AT THE DAMN TARGET UI ELEMENT. This is not related to some graphically or processor-demanding task, this is just an incredible fuckup of an awful programmer. They need someone who can competently profile the amount of time various functions take up, find the one that is taking approximately 1000x more CPU time than it would if written correctly, and fix it.

Does the game still have enemy mechs delay their reaction to being shot 1 second and then act as if they had a heart-attack, nu-XCOM style?

Buying the base game to play a mod is putting money into the pockets of arrogant fucktard cunts who don't deserve it. Pass!

Who said anything about buying?

 

[Shitty Kitty]

Who said anything about buying?

I mean, I'm just pretty proud of those modders for figuring out all these things that can be done (and consequently making both PGI and HBS look like asses).

 

[Average Manatee]

I don't think its necessarily related to how many mechs are on the board. Performance is awful whether its just your 4 mechs or there's also a dozen enemy targets present. There's just some incredibly awful overhead and processing that is done for every time you make an action. The game fucking stutters bringing up the SHOOT AT THE DAMN TARGET UI ELEMENT. This is not related to some graphically or processor-demanding task, this is just an incredible fuckup of an awful programmer. They need someone who can competently profile the amount of time various functions take up, find the one that is taking approximately 1000x more CPU time than it would if written correctly, and fix it.

Does the game still have enemy mechs delay their reaction to being shot 1 second and then act as if they had a heart-attack, nu-XCOM style?

Of course.

 

[Cael]

Who said anything about buying?

I mean, I'm just pretty proud of those modders for figuring out all these things that can be done (and consequently making both PGI and HBS look like incompetent, arrogant, totalitarian, retarded asses).

Fixed.

 

[Shitty Kitty]

Who said anything about buying?

I mean, I'm just pretty proud of those modders for figuring out all these things that can be done (and consequently making both PGI and HBS look like incompetent, arrogant, totalitarian, retarded asses).

Fixed.

While you're not wrong, at some point it just starts looking like punching the bejesus out of a retarded wheelchair-bound kid in a frothing fury. Just saying.

 

[Cael]

Who said anything about buying?

I mean, I'm just pretty proud of those modders for figuring out all these things that can be done (and consequently making both PGI and HBS look like incompetent, arrogant, totalitarian, retarded asses).

Fixed.

While you're not wrong, at some point it just starts looking like punching the bejesus out of a retarded wheelchair-bound kid in a frothing fury. Just saying.

If the retarded wheelchair-bound kid insists on trolling and flaming everyone within reach, he deserves all he gets.

 

[Shitty Kitty]

If the retarded wheelchair-bound kid insists on trolling and flaming everyone within reach, he deserves all he gets.

If you actually got trolled by Russ, Paul or Chris you have my condolences... but, like, actually getting trolled by a retard ain't a good look.

 

[Cael]

If the retarded wheelchair-bound kid insists on trolling and flaming everyone within reach, he deserves all he gets.

If you actually got trolled by Russ, Paul or Chris you have my condolences... but, like, actually getting trolled by a retard ain't a good look.

More like seeing Kevin's nonsense, and him being backed up by Jordan and that fat black fuck, and going, "Let's have ourselves a bit of fun."

 

[lightbane]

I will find it difficult to forget how the game during production seemingly became worse and worse overtime, as well as how Kevin became "Kevina" in a move that has little to do with the game itself, but was a signal that things were going to get MUCH worse. Also, the blatant rape of the setting and having the nerve of saying it is "canon-friendly".

 

[Shitty Kitty]

I will find it difficult to forget how the game during production seemingly became worse and worse overtime, as well as how Kevin became "Kevina" in a move that has little to do with the game itself, but was a signal that things were going to get MUCH worse. Also, the blatant rape of the setting and having the nerve of saying it is "canon-friendly".

After the Jihad and Dark Age most of the HBS setting rape doesn't really register on my scale

 

[Serious_Business]

I played a shitton of that game. I don't agree with the KKK here, I think it's a good game, even vanilla. It presents enough tactical scenarios and has a good level of difficulty, even though of course you'll get to dominate the vanilla dynamic fairly easily. So you have to get to mods, and the really good point is that modders have got a firm handle on AI. You can play agaisnt semi-smart enemies in this game if you use mods. This is a big deal for any kind of tactical game, I don't care about how much you're disgusted at transexuals. Of course the mods are somewhat bloated, but the variety in all of them is pretty staggering. The community of BT neckbeards is powerful indeed. I mostly avoided RT myself so far, the 3025 mod presents a pretty sharp level of difficulty in itself and doesn't slow down everything so much. If you want customization 3062 is alright, although I find the difficulty in fact less present. Having only 4 units sounds miserable, but sometimes you make more with less. I guess I've been influenced enough by nu-XCom over the years to accept these kind of minimalistic, abstract tactical games that don't emphasise on simulation so much.

 

[Monk]

"Harmony Gold and Big West Reach Landmark Agreement For Global Distribution Of Macross and Robotech"

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

"Harmony Gold and Big West Reach Landmark Agreement For Global Distribution Of Macross and Robotech"

Is the nightmare finally over?

 

[Black]

"Harmony Gold and Big West Reach Landmark Agreement For Global Distribution Of Macross and Robotech"

Is the nightmare finally over?

It never is.