Game News Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition has a release date, available for pre-order

[Leimreу]

Yeah, most of us are BG 2 experts- especially those who dislike the game, haha!
It's actually one of my favorite games and I'd like to consider myself a "codex veteran" - whatever that means.


I do feel that the evil party is a bit too strong- if you have Korgan, Viconia and Edwin what are you missing? You have a powerful melee character, the best cleric in the game and the best, most charismatic wizard, too- he's better than any PC wizard! What does team good bring to the table? Keldorn, of course- he's a badass, too, but I find it hard to pass up Edwin who is so extremely overpowered; he should be the bhaalspawn.

First of all, I would like to state that you can easily solo vanilla BG2 even with a gimped character, regardless of class or stats. It's piss easy and any discussions about "party composition" in BG2 are pretty much redundant, since you can take whatever characters you want and still come out on top without problems.

Now, if we're taking into accout difficulty enhancing mods like Tactics and Ascension, party composition beomes actually important (though you can still solo the game with a powerbuild, if you know the ins and outs of the system).

Edwin is far from overpowered, more than that, I would claim that he is a shit wizard, UNLESS you have a second generalist wizard or a cleric in the party. The problem with Edwin is that he specializes in Conjuration, which means that he cannot cast spells from the Divination school of magic (even from scrolls), which, in turn, means that he cannot cast the Spell True sight - one of the most important counterspells for Ascension/Tactics, since many powerful enemies will use Improved Invisibility (like Improved Mae Var), mirror image and some other Illusion spells. Basically, Edwin alone is not capable of fully covering your party's arcane needs and you need another wizard or cleric to back him up.

Next, evil parties are far from overpowered, since they will not have access to Aerie (inarguably the most powerful party member in ToB/Ascension due to the ability to instantaneously fire triple cleric Quest level spells from Chain Contingency) and Keldorn, who has access to the holy avenger (unless you're a thief with UAI).

 

[Jasede]

Okay, except we were talking about BG 2 and we've probably all soloed the game far too often. Yes, sure, if we're talking about ToB or some mods or Ascension, yeah right, but the topic of discussion was BG 2.

 

[Leimreу]

Okay, except we were talking about BG 2 and we've probably all soloed the game far too often. Yes, sure, if we're talking about ToB or some mods or Ascension, yeah right, but the topic of discussion was BG 2.

I understand that, I'm just surprised that people are discussing party composition for vanilla BG2 from a combat effectiveness point of view. Personally, I didn't have any problems with BG2 even on my first playthrough due to stuff like Cloak Of Mirroring and scrolls of protection from magic.

Edit: oh, and don't forget the Robe Of Vecna, Vhailor's Helm and Shiled Of Balduran. BG2 simply has too much cheeze to be difficult.

 

[Arkeus]

Edit: oh, and don't forget the Robe Of Vecna, Vhailor's Helm and Shiled Of Balduran. BG2 simply has too much cheeze to be difficult.

It's not about "being difficult", it's about doing something that is clearly weaker. Basically, it's like having your people in leather armor because your prefer how they look when there are full plate armors everywhere. A lot of people will not want to use the ones they think is better looking because they will like even less to use nerfed gear.

 

[Monty]

Edit: oh, and don't forget the Robe Of Vecna, Vhailor's Helm and Shiled Of Balduran. BG2 simply has too much cheeze to be difficult.

It's not about "being difficult", it's about doing something that is clearly weaker. Basically, it's like having your people in leather armor because your prefer how they look when there are full plate armors everywhere. A lot of people will not want to use the ones they think is better looking because they will like even less to use nerfed gear.

To me, it's all about what you find the most enjoyable way of playing. In the same way as some enjoy the challenge of 'soloing', when the game allows for 6 party members, I prefer not to use cheesy items like the cloak of mirroring as it makes entire areas of the game rather pointless. As I mentioned earlier, without the Cloak of Mirroring and the Shield of Balduran the beholder lair is one of the toughest parts of the game imo, with them it's just tedious.

If you choose to use them, but then complain that they remove any challenge from the game and so reduce your enjoyment.... well, it doesn't make much sense to me. Yes, it would be better if blatantly OP items weren't in the game, but noone is forced to use them.

 

[Rake]

BG2 simply has too much cheeze to be difficult.

Here is the key word. Someone who comes to BG with no prior knowlege of D&D cannot solo the game period in his first time, unless he cheeses the whole game. But even the loopholes take some time to be discovered. BG2 was my first contact with D&D and the difficulty was just fine. It was difficult without feeling artificial and bloated hp enemies dancing around.

 

[Lhynn]

I soloed that game while keeping a couple companions just for the banter, it was a rather strong character tho, a kensai from bg 1 with stats at around 16-21 and i did use the most powerful items as soon as they were avaible, with a couple mods for added difficulty, and i can tell you, it was a hard game even in some of the vanilla encounters, and it never got boring, because having high AC really made for some dramatic moments were me critting was the only thing that could keep me from dying.
BG2 was a masterpiece and the fact that we are discussing it here shows it, even the ones that didnt like the game played it more than once so either they are huge masochists or they actually enjoyed it.
I dont have a problem with cheeze, i dont have a problem with the game not being balanced, i have a problem with "balanced" games, they feel stiff and artificial and that detracts from the whole experience more than the cloak of mirroring (which you could always RP as missing it because it just looked like any other piece of clothing and you wouldnt waste a detect magic on it) ever could.

 

[GarfunkeL]

The one I currently use is BGT spawns that spawn once and then never again.

The issue is not the respawning, that is easily adjustable to different periods between spawns, random chance and turned off, the problem is the monsters spawned are not like the original game and it's the one thing both mods fail hard at. Tutu just less so. I still think Tutu spawns are better because the absurd amount of monsters are less of an issue considering how overpowered characters with the BG2 kits and proficiencies are by comparison.

I also like how the BGT modder had to copy the easytutu spawn system to the best of his ability because the Tutu modder didn't want to share his code. IE Mod scene sure is full of cooperation

I like the BGT-spawn system better. Instead of facing five wolves, you face three gnolls and their pet wolves/dogs. Sometimes you face a pack of wolves led by a dire wolf or a pack of dire wolves led by a dread wolf. Okay, the pack of wardogs led by a wolf was pretty amusing. Gibberlings and xvarts spawn in their own groups, though xvarts will occasionally have a pet-bear with them. As fitting BG1, the bandit groups have both human and demi-humans in them. Having three or four different types of spiders spawn together in Cloakwood doesn't kill my immersion either. I really don't understand the complaint about the spawns, unless it stems from a really old version of BGT.

As for folks preferring the GFX of BG1 over BG2, check what 1 Pixel Productions have managed to do:
http://www.spellholdstudios.net/ie/1pp

This mod offers the player the option to change the paperdolls and inventory icons of Baldur's Gate II to those of Baldur's Gate, and add a number of completely new fixes, additions and alterations to the original BGII game. Technically speaking, One Pixel Productions is an attempt to fix "cosmetic flaws" that should have never made it through QA, as well as improve upon a number of other of things

I can heartily recommend it!

 

[CSM]

What is all that 3d shit? I don't recognize a single one of those locations.

 

[vorvek]

I like the BGT-spawn system better. Instead of facing five wolves, you face three gnolls and their pet wolves/dogs. Sometimes you face a pack of wolves led by a dire wolf or a pack of dire wolves led by a dread wolf. Okay, the pack of wardogs led by a wolf was pretty amusing. Gibberlings and xvarts spawn in their own groups, though xvarts will occasionally have a pet-bear with them. As fitting BG1, the bandit groups have both human and demi-humans in them. Having three or four different types of spiders spawn together in Cloakwood doesn't kill my immersion either. I really don't understand the complaint about the spawns, unless it stems from a really old version of BGT.

You also get many spawns that include some kind of undead; three gnolls and a ghast, a xvart and two skeletons, a couple hobgoblins and a ghoul, a few kobolds with some skeletons... These happen in the latest BGT, and are kind of... well, harder to explain than the ones you mentioned.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Huh, I must have forgotten them. I do get a ghast with two ghouls and so on but I can't remember getting living and undead monsters in the same spawn.

 

[AbounI]

You He must gather your enhance his party before venturing forth.

fixed :D

 

[Nikaido]

Edwin is not better than your player character. The best wizard is the kensai mage. You won't understand until you duo bg2 with the patch that makes ToB bosses harder. You can actually get through it with just two characters, the kensai mage and a berserker-cleric. Dual classing > Edwin. I used to play bg2 in multiplayer with a friend, just two (player created) characters to spice things up. I wouldn't trade a kensai-mage for Edwin. Dual class at level 9 and get tenser's transformation. You have less spells than Edwin but you can kill a ton of the trashier mobs with just tenser's transfo and keep your spells for the mobs that matter.

 

[Jasede]

I meant he is a better wizard than a pure PC wizard.
I didn't mean, though I may have implied, that he is also better than some bullshit dual-class.

And we probably all solo'd the game with a Kensai/Mage before here, because we're dumb and bored. Well, I am at least!

 

[Jvegi]

I meant he is a better wizard than a pure PC wizard.
I didn't mean, though I may have implied, that he is also better than some bullshit dual-class.

And we probably all solo'd the game with a Kensai/Mage before here, because we're dumb and bored. Well, I am at least!

Well, this is an ancient debate. Many people believe that inability to wear amulets, the Amulet o Power in particular, would make him lose to the PC mage every time, skill being equal. Number of slots is just not that important. Also he cannot use Divination school spells, so no True Sight for him. Also, lower strength, AC, saving throws (assuming you were to play a gnome or a dwarf), and lack of special Bhaal abilities.

 

[Jasede]

Ah well, I suppose; but spell slots are king if you rest as if there was a DM watching .

 

[octavius]

And we probably all solo'd the game with a Kensai/Mage before here, because we're dumb and bored. Well, I am at least!

I tried playing a Kensai/Mage, but it was the most boring character I ever played in a BG game.

 

[Lhynn]

And we probably all solo'd the game with a Kensai/Mage before here, because we're dumb and bored. Well, I am at least!

I tried playing a Kensai/Mage, but it was the most boring character I ever played in a BG game.

Its a single player rpg, what did you expect? cookie cutter builds arent fun to play, unless the character resonates with you somehow you will get bored.

 

[Dreaad]

I still think the most overpowered cookie cutter build was a kensai/thief. At least in the long run it was, which made it relatively fun during the bg2 campaign and then god mode for any tactics or difficulty mod once you hit epic abilities. At the end of the day anything dueled with thief was ridiculous. Whoever thought that making an ability that lets a character use any items in the game, with no restriction, in any combination, including spell scrolls was a major troll.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Well it works fine in P&P, where the GM can control what items the players get their greedy mitts on.

 

[Bilgefar]

Ah well, I suppose; but spell slots are king if you rest as if there was a DM watching .

Even then he's worse than a PC Wild Mage. Having an instant cast first level spell that can turn into any other known spell is wayyyyyyyyy better than the extra spells Edwin gets. Once you can cast level 4 spells and get the all-day buff spell that makes wild surges very rare with that spell, I'm not sure even any of the cheesey dual-classes can beat a wild mage in terms of effectiveness.

PC Sorcerer is probably better than Edwin too.

 

[Jasede]

I was comparing Edwin to PC /mages/, not to PC sorcs or Wild Mages.
I never had Wild Mages; I never had ToB. PC Sorcs rule supreme.

 

[Bilgefar]

Ah, fair enough. Though technically in BG2 a wild mage is just a type of specialist mage, same as a conjurer. But yeah, without ToB, Edwin probably is better than any single class PC mage, or at least close to (PC does have Bhaal powers/Slayer, better stats usually, access to divination, and the ability to use the amulet of power).

 

[Jasede]

True about the Bhaal powers; you don't really need them but they do speed things up when solo-Edwin would have to summon or Lower SR.

 

[~RAGING BONER~]

Assassin PC, Viconia, Edwin and Korgan...best team, only team.