Baldur's Gate 1/2 gameplay is total shit.

[bhlaab]

Baldur's Gate isn't total shit or very very good

it's more like a "you must be at least this tall to ride" barometer of crpg quality

 

[Texas Red]

Reading this thread it's fun to think that we probably won't ever see an original setting for an RPG nor good TB combat.

There's VD but gambling everything on an Indie dev just says that, despite the massive industry, nobody will ever meet our tastes.

 

[LittleJoe]

Baldur's Gate isn't total shit or very very good

it's more like a "you must be at least this tall to ride" barometer of crpg quality

It's the fourth best crpg ever made.

BG2 is the second best.

 

[Gragt]

And Oblivion is the first best.

 

[Xor]

AND FALLOUT 3 IS EVEN BETTER THAN THE BEST

 

[LittleJoe]

And Oblivion is the first best.

AND FALLOUT 3 IS EVEN BETTER THAN THE BEST.

Does this pass as humour on the Codex these days?


No real thinking person could make a top ten of crpgs without the BG saga in it.

 

[deranged]

Just saying.

Bollocks

 

[DraQ]

BG 2 seemed pretty interesting, for what I've seen, but BG1 was definitely rather banal and boring.

 

[LittleJoe]

BG 2 seemed pretty interesting, for what I've seen, but BG1 was definitely rather banal and boring.

It helps if you actually try playing the game, rather than relying on other peoples opinions.

 

[DraQ]

It helps if you actually try playing the game, rather than relying on other peoples opinions. I fail and I am an uninformed moron jumping to conclusions.

Yes. Yes, you do. Yes, you are.

FYI:

I made it some way past Nashkel mines during my first playthrough before succumbing to the overwhelming bland, and have a more recent save with my fighter-to-be-dualed-to-mage-because-I-want-more-of-a-caster-than-with-multi-and-also-consider-lolves-gay, but despite my intention to use this character in BG 2 after completing BG 1 (a bit of a completionist I am) I'm not sure I will make it before bland sucks all my motivation out.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Nashkel mines is definitely lowest point in BG. Long, boring dungeon which is essentially a maze, all enemies have bows which are "imba" in BG and drop nothing and give next to no experience.

 

[Murk]

First play through its annoying because you run around checking shit/talking to people. There-after it takes me like 5 minutes tops to clear the mines.

If you plan to take an actual party then just equip everyone with ranged shit to take on the annoying kobolds until you get deep enough that the enemies have more than 1 hit's worth of hp.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

First play through its annoying because you run around checking shit/talking to people. There-after it takes me like 5 minutes tops to clear the mines.

If you plan to take an actual party then just equip everyone with ranged shit to take on the annoying kobolds until you get deep enough that the enemies have more than 1 hit's worth of hp.

Exactly. If the Nashkel mines are the low point then BG is indeed a classic. Low level adventuring should be about ranged weapons. Compared to most fantasy RPGs BG is just flat out realistic. Kobolds with fire bows should be more than a nuisance. I actually had fun in the mines.

 

[Murk]

They're a nuisance in that they can potential cause problems - two kobold commandos can kill a level 1-3 character pretty easily, especially if its not a warrior or cleric.

In my party play throughs I always found it easy to either make one of my warriors invisible and ambush them from behind (thus disabling their ranged attacks) or to backstab with a rogue and follow up with bows on the other. regular kobolds with bows, while dangerous, aren't half as bad as a kobold commando with fire arrows. When a character with a ranged weapon enters melee they suffer a major attack penalty and if I'm not mistaken the melee attacker gets an attack bonus -- very much in your interest to close the gap quickly.

Then again, in unknown dungeons you should always be scouting areas out with a stealthed rogue first...

 

[DraQ]

I don't have problems with kobolds sniping the shit out of my party. I have problems with bland.

 

[Murk]

Then... play something that you like?

 

[bhlaab]

Then... play something that you like?

Do you know where you are?

 

[Murk]

In wishful thinking logic land?

 

[octavius]

To get the most out of Bakdur's Gate 1, add the following mods:

EasyTutu or Baldur's Gate Trilogy - use the BG2 engine to play BG1.

NPC Project - characters become more fleshed out, have more banters and some have quest(s).

Sword Coast Stratagems - makes most enemies smarter and Priests and Mages buff at start
of combat. Some mages are extremely nasty with this mod installed.

Hard Times - magic items becomes scarse and all mundane iron weapons and armour can break. Watch and weep as the 22K Full Plate breaks...

Unfinished Business - completes some of the quests that didn't make it to the released game.

FixPack - fixes most glaring bugs

Rogue Rebalancing - makes thievies and bards more interesting, but does not unbalance things.

Widescreen Mod - to play in Widescreen and/or high resolution.


As for Mirror Image being buggy that is fixed in BG2 by using eiter Sword Coast Strategems II or Spell Revisions.

Thief backstabbing - I think Bioware decided it was to difficult to program properly and not worth the effort since there aren't many of those buggers in the vanilla game. It is kinda annoying, as it makes it very difficult to protect yourself from, especially since the spells that dispel illusions only kick in at the start of each round.

Agree that Animate Dead is the most disappointing spell in the game. You can even cast it sucessfully when there are no corpses around.

Biggest flaw IMO is lack of a grid, which leads to much frustration for a control-freak like me...

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I don't have problems with kobolds sniping the shit out of my party. I have problems with bland.

Well, it was bland, but it still had a nice atmosphere.
The atmosphere and the setting was the only thing that I've really enjoyed about Baldur's Gate. It took blandness to the level of art. I don't know any other game or setting that could handle blandness so well.
Hell, I even liked the mines.

I wish they'd add more details to the surroundings, though. For example all the inns and taverns were described in detail in the manual - implementing all these things, like various foods, service, etc. wouldn't require much effort but would add a lot to the game.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

I don't have problems with kobolds sniping the shit out of my party. I have problems with bland.

They're fucking mines. SORRY

 

[Murk]

Every game has some goddamn underground annoying shithole.

I wish they'd add more details to the surroundings, though. For example all the inns and taverns were described in detail in the manual - implementing all these things, like various foods, service, etc. wouldn't require much effort but would add a lot to the game.

Is this a purely flavor thing you're talking about or would this serve an actual purpose? The inns/taverns offer drinks with the possibility of rumors from the bartender already... so what difference would food serve? To heal? That's not a D&D mechanic and if it was cheap it might kind of break the whole "you pay out your ass for healing" feature the system has...

What services would a tavern offer other than sleep/drink and people to talk to?

 

[Wyrmlord]

No real thinking person could make a top ten of crpgs without the BG saga in it.

No person who actually played RPGs would be so biased.

Computer roleplaying games have existed for 33 years.

The Baldur's Gate games appear only in the past 12 years.

To make a list of the best RPGs by making such a contemporary bias is wrongfully limiting. And most contemporary games would belond more in a top 20 than a top 10 list.

The Gold Box games would kill it in terms of combat. Betrayal At Krondor would kill it in terms of exploration. Old RPG-adventure hybrids would kill in terms of interactivity. M&M games would kill in it variety. Wizardrys would kill it in challenge.

And I know I am sounding all smug and overly self-righteous in saying all this, but I am right.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Is this a purely flavor thing you're talking about or would this serve an actual purpose? The inns/taverns offer drinks with the possibility of rumors from the bartender already... so what difference would food serve? To heal? That's not a D&D mechanic and if it was cheap it might kind of break the whole "you pay out your ass for healing" feature the system has...

A purely flavour thing. As I've mentioned, the atmosphere and the FR setting is the only thing I've really enjoyed in BG. The rest is mediocre at the best and couldn't be improved without a substantial effort.

I've read the manual before playing BG and I was disappointed that all the stuff that was described in the world section wasn't there.

 

[DraQ]

They're It's fucking mines BG1. SORRY

Repaired.

I don't have problems with kobolds sniping the shit out of my party. I have problems with bland.

Well, it was bland, but it still had a nice atmosphere.
The atmosphere and the setting was the only thing that I've really enjoyed about Baldur's Gate.

Da fuck? How can the most generic DnD setting ever (FR, Sword Coast) be even considered a possible redeeming quality? And how does it help create any atmosphere?
Sure, great setting and atmosphere can go a long way, even if the gameplay is lacking (Morrowind, Daggerfall), but BG1 features bland setting and bland atmosphere atop of a towering mountain of blandness.

It took blandness to the level of art. I don't know any other game or setting that could handle blandness so well.

Play Oblivion (vanilla). It has all the bland you will ever want. This is the game that took blandness to the level of art, coincidentally making itself completely unfit for human consumption.