Baldur's Gate #BaldurGate: Siege of Dragonspear

[Lilura]

one writer and her own opinions about "fixing" the BG series. As if it needed fixing.

I just wish they enforced rest restrictions and didn't go full-linear mode.

I don't really care about Mizhena's dialogue (because I'm not all that interested in dialogue and story in general; I play mostly for combat), but it seems to have upset some ppl from two camps: the ones that don't want that sort of content in their games, and the ones that want that sort of content but want it to be represented with more depth and meaning.

Beamdog have bowed to what the second camp wants. That dialogue pic is from my walkthrough, one that I've recently slacked off on for no real reason, other than laziness.

 

[Space Insect]

I do still think they could have come up with a better way for her to reveal her transexualism than a "strange name" in a setting complete with Drizzt, Elminister, Sarevok, Bodhi, and others.

 

[Mustawd]

and the ones that want that sort of content but want it to be represented with more depth and meaning.

Meh. I can take it or leave it. I've already talked about this ad naseum, but if you're gonna do it make it a real character or at least make it consistent with the rest of the characters. Make it believable in a way that fits into the world.

Don't just start throwing in characters for the sake of diversity like some SJW try-hard retard.

 

[Lilura]

Don't just start throwing in characters for the sake of diversity like some SJW try-hard retard.

Well yeah, that's what Beamdog have admitted to and since addressed. They also addressed the Minsc dialogue that offended some ppl, and lots of other stuff. Of course, they should have been more thoughtful in the first place, but what's done is done.

 

[pippin]

How are they going to stand up for their new product(s) now? Their reputation is more or less destroyed, and I sincerely doubt SoD will ever be seen as a success for anyone, especially the guys giving money to Beamdog. Besides, their "enhancements" are of dubious taste in terms of aesthetics, and let's not even talk about the bugs. Is "written by David Gaider" enough as a marketing hook for them?

 

[Lilura]

I do still think they could have come up with a better way for her to reveal her transexualism than a "strange name" in a setting complete with Drizzt, Elminister, Sarevok, Bodhi, and others.

They are all pretty boring names compared to Portalbendarwinden.

Is "written by David Gaider" enough as a marketing hook for them?

I think so. He wrote Irenicus, and a lot of other good stuff afterwards (HK-47, f.e).

 

[Trashos]

Imagine what we would be reading here if Beamdog had not advertised themselves that they were pushing an agenda.

Also, groups who want to help "oppressed" people, try to do so by oppressing the former "oppressors". It reminds me of the "Burn all violent people!" joke. They are just the other side of the same coin, and sometimes I wonder if they have the intelligence to realize that.

 

[Jick Magger]

Anyways, they supposedly fixed the gay character. Anyone know how that turned out, or did they just erase him from the world?

I believe they kept the character in. What they removed was a quote from Minsc that was a jab at Gamergate ("Actually it's about ethics in adventuring" or somesuch). While I don't agree with the removal and think that GG did overreact to it, I do think it was a pretty shitty joke (The reference itself is the only humorous thing about it and it doesn't fit the character at all), and that the Beamdog writers was seriously naive if they did not expect it to garner the attention it ultimately got, especially in combination with all their other attempts to 'modernize' Baldur's Gate.

 

[Malpercio]

If you can't see the problem with writing that goes 'HELLO. I WAS A MAN, NOW I AM A WOMAN.' in the first line of dialogue in a Baldur's Gate game...

It's not the theme itself, it's the absolutely hamfisted way in which they throw it in your face, treating you like an infantile console gamer.

Oh, I absolutely agree. Mizhena is a pretty poor character ("character" eh. Like 2 lines). So are Jaheria and Khalid to some degree, maybe their questline would make sense if they were 16 and just married. Safana is not as bad, though she talks too much which it's weird compared to other NPCs.

But to think the whole game is some giant SJW propaganda because it as refugees in a war setting, or Irenicus use the word privilege (He's not telling you to check your privilege ffs, he's using the very dictionary definiton of it. You can replace i with "pampered" or "spoiled" and the sentence still flows), I'm sorry, but that's downright moronic.

 

[Lilura]

While I don't agree with the removal

Why don't you agree with the removal ("shitty joke, OOC, hate-fuel"), or do you just mean devs should not bow to public pressure like that?

 

[Jick Magger]

While I don't agree with the removal

Why don't you agree with the removal ("shitty joke, OOC, hate-fuel"), or do you just mean devs should not bow to public pressure like that?

Because it doesn't really change anything, and it's just cowtowing to mob mentality, which is just as bad as when SJW's do it. Ultimately the opinions of the writers probably has not changed (possibly even become more extreme, if anything), the opinions of those who were against it probably has not largely changed (As you can see in this thread and in the steam reviews, people are still counting "Excessive pandering to the social justice crowd" as a criticism), and ultimately all that's really gotten accomplished is that a game's gotten censored and everyone feels awful.

 

[Kaivokz]

But to think the whole game is some giant SJW propaganda because it as refugees in a war setting, or Irenicus use the word privilege (He's not telling you to check your privilege ffs, he's using the very dictionary definiton of it. You can replace i with "pampered" or "spoiled" and the sentence still flows), I'm sorry, but that's downright moronic.

Does anyone here think the game is SJW propaganda just because it has refugees and Irenicus uses the word privilege? Or did you just decide to let us know that if someone did, they would be retarded?

 

[Mustawd]

But to think the whole game is some giant SJW propaganda because it as refugees in a war setting, or Irenicus use the word privilege (He's not telling you to check your privilege ffs, he's using the very dictionary definiton of it. You can replace i with "pampered" or "spoiled" and the sentence still flows), I'm sorry, but that's downright moronic.

Does anyone here think the game is SJW propaganda just because it has refugees and Irenicus uses the word privilege? Or did you just decide to let us know that if someone did, they would be retarded?

Some people have been complaining about that issue, yes. Not so much here, specifically.

 

[Theldaran]

While I don't agree with the removal

Why don't you agree with the removal ("shitty joke, OOC, hate-fuel"), or do you just mean devs should not bow to public pressure like that?

I think: to put this kind of content in the game is stupid enough, but putting it in, then getting embarrassed and removing it due to outside pressure is doubly stupid.

 

[Kaivokz]

But to think the whole game is some giant SJW propaganda because it as refugees in a war setting, or Irenicus use the word privilege (He's not telling you to check your privilege ffs, he's using the very dictionary definiton of it. You can replace i with "pampered" or "spoiled" and the sentence still flows), I'm sorry, but that's downright moronic.

Does anyone here think the game is SJW propaganda just because it has refugees and Irenicus uses the word privilege? Or did you just decide to let us know that if someone did, they would be retarded?

Some people have been complaining about that issue, yes. Not so much here, specifically.

Complaining about the issue is different. I can't imagine many people at all hold:

(1) If there are refugees or Irenicus talks about privilege, then "the whole game is some giant SJW propaganda."
(2) There are refugees or Irenicus talks about privilege.
Therefore, (3) the whole game is some giant SJW propaganda.

Anyone who believes (3) almost certainly has more to ground that belief than (2). Like I said, seems like an obvious straw man, or an argument from someone who is clinically retarded. If you change (2) from, as Malpercio had it, a disjunction of the things someone thinks are propaganda to a conjunction of all the things someone thinks are SJW propaganda, then that would be what grounds the belief of the average person in (3). But then his point doesn't make any sense, because only a true retard would think one instance of propaganda makes the entire game a giant piece of SJW propaganda; "a giant piece of SJW propaganda" implies by its very definition that the propaganda is pervasive and fundamental, so "something only a retard would believe is downright moronic"... well, no shit.

 

[Space Insect]

Complaining about the issue is different. I can't imagine many people at all hold:

(1) If there are refugees or Irenicus talks about privilege, then "the whole game is some giant SJW propaganda."
(2) There are refugees or Irenicus talks about privilege.
Therefore, (3) the whole game is some giant SJW propaganda.

Anyone who believes (3) almost certainly has more to ground that belief than (2). Like I said, seems like an obvious straw man, or an argument from someone who is clinically retarded. If you change (2) from, as Malpercio had it, a disjunction of the things someone thinks are propaganda to a conjunction of all the things someone thinks are SJW propaganda, then that would be what grounds the belief of the average person in (3). But then his point doesn't make any sense, because only a true retard would think one instance of propaganda makes the entire game a giant piece of SJW propaganda; "a giant piece of SJW propaganda" implies by its very definition that the propaganda is pervasive and fundamental, so "something only a retard would believe is downright moronic"... well, no shit.

Most of the criticism on here has been the abhorrent writing which plagues the game. It does not fit in the setting and is just plain bad. If the potential SJW propaganda was written better, most of this thread would not be as filled with criticism. Also, you are ignoring the more "strong independent woman" stereotype that is present in the new writing that doesn't mesh with the original game.

 

[Infinitron]

This is a bit late but I'm amused by how Gauldur's Bait is scandalized by the game having 9/11 & War on Terror references. "Why aren't you mad, guys? PROPAGANDA!"

But most anti-SJWs are focused on the sexual identity stuff (trannies, feminism) and don't really care about that kind of political reference. As likely Trump supporters they're not big fans of Middle Eastern intervention anyway.

 

[Kaivokz]

Most of the criticism on here has been the abhorrent writing which plagues the game. It does not fit in the setting and is just plain bad. If the potential SJW propaganda was written better, most of this thread would not be as filled with criticism. Also, you are ignoring the more "strong independent woman" stereotype that is present in the new writing that doesn't mesh with the original game.

I wasn't defending the game. I was defending people who think the game has fundamentally crappy writing.

 

[Neanderthal]

Personally I don' gi a fuck about all that poncy shit, when you've got low levels marchin in to hells to take on a Baatezu noble on his home plane, then you realise somebodies got their head wedged right up their arse. Fuck me Nameless One were an immortal an feared Blood War but these dumb fucks wanna march right into middle on it an challenge numberless legions o Hell. Shit numpty writin, spits all oer settin an devalues everythin in favour o a cheap power trip.

 

[Space Insect]

Last, there is also some war criticism in the game, both against use of poison in warfare (closest thing to chemical warfare besides magic in that setting) which is seen as an item name “poison of terror” and Irenicus commenting that “even poison is not beneath you”. Further, torture as a poor means of gathering information is also treated:

and we are reminded that soldiers die in wars and not the officers, as a rebuke to an in-game officer, De Lancie, established as a coward:

Finally, combining this war criticism with an image of the large dragon skeleton now embedded in the Dragonspear tower:

the main story of Caelar’s Crusade can be read as an allegory criticizing USAs invasion of Iraq after 9/11, with a dragon the obvious substitute of the airplane. In the end of the game it becomes clear that one purpose of Caelar’s crusade was to “save the thousands that died at Dragonspear” and this is the reason that she has so many followers – they all had relatives or friends that perished at Dragonspear. The word crusade intrinsically includes a religious component, and remember that George W. Bush mentioned during the Iraq invasion that he has God on his side (I can’t recall the exact phrasing). And what would the outcome of the crusade have been, unless the CHARNAME had stepped in – a portal opening that causes terror and death to spread over the world, in the game in the form of demons from the Nine Hells. People probably have different opinions of the Iraq invasion and I won’t discuss it here, I just wanted to point out the reference. I had a chat about this with a senior game developer whose name will not be mentioned, just to make sure I hadn’t moved into tinfoil hat territory with this last one.

Anyway, due to shoving politics down my throat and a poor execution when it comes to gameplay , writing, and mechanics, this is without a doubt the worst “RPG” I have ever played by far, and my biggest disappointment when it comes to games. I was hoping for Beamdog to minimally just play it safe as already that would have satisfied a lot of people loving the series. Instead they chose…this. No thank you.

For reference to the post from Infinitron here is the entire thing about how SoD is about the Iraq War.

 

[SwiftCrack]

I don't think Beamdog has the intellectual prowess in their writing team to actually go that deep.

 

[Mustawd]

Agree. People are reading into it a bit too much. Besides, Fallout had all kinds of political statements that were sprinkled in here and there. Again, not a big deal as long as it fits the game. I see the whole refugee thing being blown out of proportion because of the other stuff Beamdog did.

 

[Jick Magger]

I should clarify that I haven't played Siege of Dragonspear, and never really intended to even before all of this controversy broke out since I've never really cared too much about a proper 'bridge' between BG1 and BG2 (I was always fairly satisfied with the explanation given to you in BG2's prologue) and I didn't really like the idea of it being done by some unknown studio.

I did, however, recently complete BG2:EE, and I am thoroughly unimpressed by Beamdog's writing skills if their original characters are anything to go by.

 

[Sizzle]

I did, however, recently complete BG2:EE, and I am thoroughly unimpressed by Beamdog's writing skills if their original characters are anything to go by.

Not that BG2 had particularly good writing to start with, but they've managed to make it seem stellar compared to their own drivel.

 

[Orobis]

So is Siege of Dragonspear canon now?