Baldur's Gate #BaldurGate: Siege of Dragonspear

[Delterius]

Add a few lines hear and there.

Lol no, what you are suggesting is what's lazy. A few lines here and there actually mean bunch of banters with the upwards of two dozen characters, comments on quests and the environment as well as specific dialogue.

 

[Lilura]

No not proof at all. It's you who doesn't know what a tank is. Is Khalid not mitigating damage for your party with the second highest hit points of the NPCs in the whole game going toe to toe with enemies while the rest of your party destroys said enemies? It's actually laughable for you to suggest that Khalid isn't a tank.

You said "Minsc was the only tank before Dorn" (yes, I remember more than two posts back)... in Siege, both can absorb about 80 dmg before they're dead. How much damage can an arcane spell-caster absorb with Stoneskin and Mirror Image, throwing another up when they're depleted. And another. And another... Jaheira with Ironskins?

That's why I said they are subpar tanks, not that they are not tanks.

 

[Ezrite]

Sounds really boring.

Why would it be? I find it interesting to be able to frontline fight with an arcane class instead of siting in the back, slinging stones for hundreds of turns when the magic is out.

Not that hilarious. All fighters should be multi-classing into wizard for stone skin / tensers / time stop.

I never do that when I play.

 

[Theldaran]

Please go back to butchering SoD.

 

[Ezrite]

Please go back to butchering SoD.

Am I supposed to be offended? :D

 

[Mustawd]

^ huh?

No, he meant go back to shitting on it.

I think that's what he meant...

 

[Theldaran]

I said, stop the offtopics and keep the deep analysis of this gem of coding. Pretty please?

 

[pippin]

There's another topic to discuss the game. This is about shitposting.

 

[Theldaran]

I'd like more people making an analysis like Lilura. I'll be doing my own ongoing little analysis, but as I'm not touching the expansion with a ten foot pole, I'll be following a YT gameplay.

For starters,

Spoiler

Imoen mentions in Korlasz's tomb (the very first dungeon and start of the game) that it was Duchess Liaa Jannath whom taught her magic. This is just stoopid. The city was in shambles prior to Sarevok's death, and now it's all jokes and games and Dukes training with adventurers? I dread the time when they actually visit the Gate. The hippies might as well have taken over.

 

[pippin]

Again, there's another thread for that. People talk about mechanics and etc. Here we just celebrate the drama and butthurt around Beamdog.

 

[Metal Hurlant]

No not proof at all. It's you who doesn't know what a tank is. Is Khalid not mitigating damage for your party with the second highest hit points of the NPCs in the whole game going toe to toe with enemies while the rest of your party destroys said enemies? It's actually laughable for you to suggest that Khalid isn't a tank.

You said "Minsc was the only tank before Dorn" (yes, I remember more than two posts back)... in Siege, both can absorb about 80 dmg before they're dead. How much damage can an arcane spell-caster absorb with Stoneskin and Mirror Image, throwing another up when they're depleted. And another. And another... Jaheira with Ironskins?

That's why I said they are subpar tanks, not that they are not tanks.

And when those spells are depleted, what then? How are they going to tank? Oh that's right, you have to go to bed. With Minsc, you can just heal him (if he gets hit with his low AC) and continue tanking and no need for rest.

 

[Lhynn]

You are all being retarded, tanking is a party effort, a lot of party members can take care of different needs and hits, for example against many weak enemies nothing beats a fighter, but against one very strong heavy hitter you want either summons or magically protected wizards taking the hits.
The beauty of these games is that you can make due with almost anything, and the best tactic varies from encounter to encounter.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

Hillariously enough, the Dragon Disciple with a stupidly high roll on the stats of like 97 and the overall bonuses of the DD and stone skin among other buffs, left my wizard meleeing with the staff of Aulee +3 (I think it was called) in BG1:EE and some times beating Minsc to it. She also out Hped some of the fighters with a con of 19.

AFAIK constitution is capped at somwhere around 16 for mages, so the extra 3 points are worthless. You can get natural regeneration at some point, but it's so slow that it's almost of no help in combat.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Hillariously enough, the Dragon Disciple with a stupidly high roll on the stats of like 97 and the overall bonuses of the DD and stone skin among other buffs, left my wizard meleeing with the staff of Aulee +3 (I think it was called) in BG1:EE and some times beating Minsc to it. She also out Hped some of the fighters with a con of 19.

AFAIK constitution is capped at somwhere around 16 for mages, so the extra 3 points are worthless. You can get natural regeneration at some point, but it's so slow that it's almost of no help in combat.

Non-warriors get a max of +2hp per level from Con 16+. To get higher hp benefits from Con, you have to be a warrior class (fighter, paladin, ranger, barbarian).

 

[Lilura]

And when those spells are depleted, what then? How are they going to tank? Oh that's right, you have to go to bed. With Minsc, you can just heal him (if he gets hit with his low AC) and continue tanking and no need for rest.

Healing is tedious, too, unless you Rest Until Healed (a cheese setting introduced by the BG2 engine, for newbies like yourself). Otherwise, Minsc needs potion spam or a healbot, and then the healbot needs to rest just like the arcane spellcaster.

Think about this:
Compared to Minsc's 80 HP, how much dmg does Mirror Image mitigate? Stoneskin? Ironskin?
Lrn2tank, fuckstick.

I'd like more people making an analysis like Lilura.

Analysis? I'm just writing a walkthrough for newbies like Metal Hurlant.

 

[Lilura]

Gregory A. Wilson interviews Trent & Phil: paraphrased extracts
Source: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussi...ith-trent-and-phillip-on-thursday-april-21/p1

Spoiler

- SoD initially intended to be a 4 or 5 hours adventure
- expanded the adventure and budget midway through
- Initial sketch and plan of adventure was much larger than it was even now
-Initially was going to be a DLC, but then as expanded, considered makeing it stand alone.
-Phil always wanted it to be standalone
-it's really an expansion pack rather than DLC. DLC is a little misleading
-GOG and Beamdog promote it well, kind of buried on steam since it is listed as DLC
-I feel we are getting ready to do something on our own
- have been developing the scope of what we can do as a company
- Most challenging technical aspect was the UI
- new UI allows us to do thinks fundementally impossible in the original game
-relatively easy to make photorealistic isometric art style but frustrating to to sort of down grade and match it to original 1998 games
-UI engine still a little difficult to work with
-will have to either roll IE forward in a fundamentally big way for future projects or just start over from scratch
- BG was as close to 2ed as any D&D game that has ever been made .a new engine will have to be just as close to whatever edition when write (probably 5ed)
- D&D is really not a good ruleset for a diablo type action game
- more tactical and thoughtful game like bg is better suited to the rules.
- Have good relationship with WOTC. Trent and Phil are definitely rule nerds
Phil- Would be extremely excited to make a 5ed game if that ever happens
-Turn based with pausing is best D&D experience
Trent- Diseased gibberlings were originally created because gibberlings were too tough as soon as you left candlekeep
- kobald commandos AI was so effective at killing you that they had to scale it back

Trent
- internet can be so negative
- I look to our forums. If they are freaking out it has my attention. if the internet as a whole is, then less so.
- minsc line was the only thing I saw that I thought: I can't really stand behind this
- For controversy: Dont care so much about what joe average thinks, cares more about fans of the game think and more likely to listen
- I am a stubborn person. if someone tells me to do somethinbg and I disagree. its not happening

Phil
- We are a team, if one person or the game is getting called out we all know about it
- BG is huge, we couldn'#t possible think of every single angle. We need community feedback to create a quality game
- Take away something valuable from criticism
-
Trent:
-half of our team was our community originally. we feel very integrated with our bg community
- working with modders to make aspects of the game easier for them

Phil
-Balancing act of what criticism to accept and which to ignore
- Basic guideline principle to follow is "Does it feel like BG?"

Trent
- we listen to every bit of feedback, sometimes we just have to make a call to disagree with it

trent:
-everyone at there heart is a reasonable person. if you explain why you are doing something, even if disagree, they are more likely to accept it

regarding bg3 what engine would you like to use
trent: would be a new engine

-phil: not saying that this is the engine we would use but would love to play around with larians divinity original sin engine
- I wouldnt let you rotate the camera

Trent and Phil:
PST:EE would be cool

-I think cheese is ok. it's outsmarting the designer

-SoD is linear because of the limitations we have to work in.
Originally in the sketch it was more in bg1 free roaming style
Also bridging the gap between 1 and 2 is going to requires a certain amount of linearity

Phil
- In terms of story, Siege creates a number of plot threads we could revisit later if we chose to go back and create more content for bg
- Feel bg saga is pretty full at the moment in terms of content
- some parts of bg2 could be filled in. Maybe some more content between bg2 and ToB
- i have some ideas if we choose to do something

Phil: My favourite game of the last 10 years is FTL (faster than light)
-Permadeath is not for everyone, but I personally love games like that

 

[Bubbles]

regarding bg3 what engine would you like to use
trent: would be a new engine

-phil: not saying that this is the engine we would use but would love to play around with larians divinity original sin engine

Brrr!

 

[Dreaad]

Gregory A. Wilson interviews Trent & Phil: paraphrased extracts

- new UI allows us to do thinks fundementally impossible in the original game


Trent
- I look to our forums. If they are freaking out it has my attention. if the internet as a whole is, then less so.
- minsc line was the only thing I saw that I thought: I can't really stand behind this
- For controversy: Dont care so much about what joe average thinks, cares more about fans of the game think and more likely to listen
- I am a stubborn person. if someone tells me to do somethinbg and I disagree. its not happening

Phil

- Take away something valuable from criticism

Is that why they delete all criticism from their forums
No visible criticism = everything is fine.

New UI looks like it belongs in a shadowrun game not a fucking fantasy adventure. If the idiots can do so much with their new UI why did they make it stand out so garishly from everything else.

 

[pippin]

In short, they have no idea what they are doing.

 

[Lilura]

Is that why they delete all criticism from their forums
No visible criticism = everything is fine.

I heard they del some criticism.. wasn't on the forums back then, so not sure. I suppose some of it might have been vociferous/over-the-top, in which case I wouldn't blame them. SCL forums were killed by negativity.

New UI looks like it belongs in a shadowrun game not a fucking fantasy adventure. If the idiots can do so much with their new UI why did they make it stand out so garishly from everything else.

Hah, I actually don't mind the Siege UI... it has some annoying quirks and the reskin could have been better, though.

 

[Reinhardt]

trent:
-everyone at there heart is a reasonable person. if you explain why you are doing something, even if disagree, they are more likely to accept it

What? Even transphobic bigots? Maybe Trent should tell this to Amber "Fuck you, BG-shitlords" Scott?

Or "fuck you, you are not real fans" was Trent and Amber was "i do what i want, deal with it"?

 

[Metal Hurlant]

Healing is tedious, too, unless you Rest Until Healed (a cheese setting introduced by the BG2 engine, for newbies like yourself). Otherwise, Minsc needs potion spam or a healbot, and then the healbot needs to rest just like the arcane spellcaster.

Think about this:
Compared to Minsc's 80 HP, how much dmg does Mirror Image mitigate? Stoneskin? Ironskin?
Lrn2tank, fuckstick.

Analysis? I'm just writing a walkthrough for newbies like Metal Hurlant.

So how do you get your spells back when you've been tanking goblins with your Mage idiot? Yeah, that's a good strategy. If you're tanking with your Mage with defensive spells, you're the one that's going to be rest spamming to get those spells back. Not me with my fighters. As Lhynn pointed out, Fighters are good tanks as well depending on the situation.

Also, try and think before you make an argument. Minsc's 80 HP is not the only thing that's mitigating damage. It's also his lower AC compared to a Mage.

You need to learn to tank. At least I don't rest spam like the loser that you are. We have a rest spammer here. And the walkthrough you're doing? Sounds like it's there to help you get through the game.

 

[Rivmusique]

He's writing a walkthrough to help himself through the game? That was embarrassing.

 

[Lilura]

If you're tanking with your Mage with defensive spells, you're the one that's going to be resting spamming to get those spells back.

You are potion quaffing and rest-spamming healbots to keep your fighters afloat, fuckstick. How many castings of Mirror Image do Edwin and Baeloth get before they have to rest?

Also, try and think before you make an argument. Minsc's 80 HP is not the only thing that's mitigating damage. It's also his lower AC compared to a Mage.

As I pointed out, non-mundanes attain ACs of about -20; mundanes only -10 or so (vanilla OC).

And the walkthrough you're doing? Sounds like it's there to help you get through the game.

Read my walkthrough and lrnsmth, you fuckstick.

 

[Lilura]

A few other random thoughts on Siege:

- journal pop ups are a lil' annoying -> can be disabled.
- sprite outlines ppl can STOP bitching about -> can be disabled.
- many of the cutscenes can be skipped with esc key -> good for replays.
- Grayscale on pause can be disabled -> stop bitching
- the Reveal Items button under the portrait panel is welcome, though I'm used to just tapping Tab to make things flash.
- zoom out is a lil' buggy and doesn't let you scroll at its extreme -> you have to mouse-wheel back in somewhat, if you want to continue scrolling.
- you can't switch from other modes directly to journal mode (ghosted) because it's a sidepanel now. I'm still getting to grips with this...
- you can't double-click a spell to assign it in the new list-based mage book and priest scroll (it should let you)
- when you reload a save-game it remembers the last save slot, even if it's 20 down from the top (maybe this was an EE thing, too)
- IWD2 style quick weapon switching (i.e, now you can have bow AND sword n board equipped)
- Tabs in charsheet ala IWD2. Everyone loves tabs.
- Dialogue window can sometimes block loot mode -> annoying.
- interparty banters don't interrupt play, they are floaty text and voiced.
- waylay zones are more interesting than either BG1 or BG2. The first one I found was troll vs. orc, also hosting a sub-AR (troll cave) in which I found a treatise that provided lore on Dragonspear castle. Someone on my blog told me that there is a second AR within this cave, revealed by an Infravision check.
- why are ppl saying the backdrops suck?