Eternity Avowed - Obsidian's first person action-RPG in the Pillars of Eternity setting

[The Wall]

Infinitron shills, Roguey obsidiansplains and Vic happily consooooomes. Three Stooges enabling Decline. Not talking about them personally, talking about archetypes. We all know Roguey, Infinitron and Vic or two in our daily lives

 

[Old Hans]

Soil erosion is not a system in Oblivion. Are you referring to the meme where their level designers allegedly studied geology so they'd know where to place rocks in the world?

I remember Todd talking about how they had people studying soil erosion

 

[anvi]

It sounds super basic and dumb. But it depends on what the game is.

Spoiler

He's being ironic.

I'm just arguing the point. Not every game needs immersive Bethesda stuff in it. If it is supposed to be like Skyrim then ok it does. But if it's supposed to be an exciting action game then nobody needs all that shit.

"Skyrim stuff" happened 14 years ago, on 30 year old game engine. With background of this moment we live through being modern robotics, AI models that write new Shakespear work and then narrate it with JFK voice, landing rockets, and Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, how the FUCK and more importantnly WHY THE FUCK you seek to find excuses for turd called A V O W E D (even name is retarded) produced by merry band of lesbian retards at Obsidian?

I don't know anything about Avowed lol. I am arguing that every RPG / actionRPG does not need to be like Skyrim. So what if you can't shoot birds or knock over tables? If it is trying to be like Skyrim then fair enough. But is that what anyone really wants? No wonder RPGs suck if the audience only care about stupid shit.

 

[luj1]

Attention to detail can result in a worse game

Maybe for some 4X game with overdesigned systems. But what a dumb thing to say for Avowed. I just hope you don't become a lawyer, cause whoever is defended by you is proper focked.

 

[JarlFrank]

Also, the whole line of argument that Avowed doesn't follow the same design philosophy, that it's a "Bioware style" game, that it doesn't need to have any of these details... it's just a fucking cop out.

Pick any classic from the golden age of gaming and you'll see a shitload of unnecessary details. Did the games need those? No, but the devs implemented them anyway because they cared!
Even when technology wasn't quite there yet to have physics and all that stuff, developers cared about making the world interesting and reactive.

Games like Morrowind and Gothic didn't have physics, but they let you pick up clutter, and you would provoke guards if you picked up things that belonged to others.
Ultima VII also let you pick up and move everything, and NPCs had schedules, and you could BAKE BREAD because why the fuck not? Was there any gameplay reason for baking bread? No, but you COULD because it is COOL! And it wasn't a stupid abstract crafting screen like we get now, but you put FLOUR into WATER to get DOUGH which you put in the OVEN which creates BREAD. And baker NPCs would do this as their job schedule. Was it needed? No, but it's great and people still remember the game for this reason.

Fucking adventure games in the 1980s took care to give you feedback for trying things on background items. If there's a rock in the scenery and you try to pick it up the game says "This rock is too heavy to lift." Yeah, it's not a system, it's just specifically hand-written descriptions for every impossible action, but the developers CARED! They could as well have written "You cannot do this." (which some adventure games, particularly later ones, do, showing a lack of effort compared to the earlier games that have unique responses) but they paid attention to add little details that enhance the experience.

FPS games, particularly the Build Engine games, added lots of little environment details to make clutter and even some wall textures react to being shot, like a computer screen texture turning into a broken screen and throwing sparks when shot. Was it necessary for gameplay? No, but it enhanced the atmosphere and the feeling of being in a world that reacts to your input.

Avowed shows the exact opposite: devs who don't give a shit. They just phoned in the "Bioware style" game they had to, and called it a day. Who cares about superfluous flavor elements, right? It's not necessary for the game!
No, it's not. But it shows love for your craft, and that you actually cared about delivering a believable world to play in, and cared about giving the player feedback for his actions, whether they are intended by the developer or not. Avowed instead just wants you to follow the intended path and never stray from it, which is lame and boring.

 

[luj1]

You can just make a forum bot that automatically rates Rogay's posts on Avowed with retarded and never be wrong

 

[The Wall]

Again, Oblivion's problems derive from bad systems design that was done deliberately, particularly to target a playerbase that was too stupid to find Caius Cosades in Morrowind.
Lack of development time or cut content were not a source of its problems, so I don't know what you're trying to get at.

Here's a long list of developer lies about Oblivion https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/which-oblivion-dev-lied-the-most.15427

There were multiple devs who outright stated that they weren't going to scale the whole world to your level knowing full-well the issues that would cause. They ended up shipping like that anyway, they just had no time to fine-tune it. They corrected it with Fallout 3.

Todd got that 80s Fleetwood Mac song as his theme meme song for a reason. He lies, that is, he promises features that end up having to be cut for time.

This shit from Oblivion development days, I'm VERY much informed on it, shows 2 things: "Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies" and FUCKING AMBITION! Back when Games Industry had BALLS and was made by men for men every new big budget game had AMBITION. Game Studios wanted to one up each other, and be better then their past selfs, push the limit of possible. Now when it's made by eunuchs, lesbians and trannies, it's just one more corporate office job to them. More fun to be had in Microsoft Excel then in Avowed

 

[Roguey]

You said "Because it's a Bioware game with a first-person camera hack."

From the article you posted:

"I think the best comparison is The Outer Worlds. I think that gives a much clearer idea of the scope of the game and also the design and layout."

Is Outer Worlds a Bioware game or a game closer to Mass Effect then New Vegas.

"Best comparison" doesn't mean "We're exactly like The Outer Worlds" which definitely wasn't exactly like New Vegas.

It's clear that Carrie that didn't go around in TOW killing randos, stealing things. She doesn't care about any of that.

 

[Sibelius]

I was reviewing the Microsoft Gamedev Guidelines to see if there were any guidelines around attacking NPCs etc that could explain the decline being discussed.

Didn't find anything like that, but I did gather some crucial information that can help us rationalise the design of this game.

25-30% of Xbox Gamers identify as having a disability

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-...on-actions/accessible-by-design-from-day-one/

Side note, wtf does 'identify as having a disability' mean? I'm not really disabled, but I think I am?

 

[anvi]

There should be BARE MINIMUM of game sandbox simulation expected from AAA game with million$ in budget published by TRILLION $ worth company. Especially when such game is announced as "SKYRIM KILLER", when the same company 6 YEARS AGO made turd less shitty then this

You know who isn't to blame? Devs. Devs who FUCKING! MADE! THE! GAME! are NOT! to be blamed. Do you know WHY? Because I'm 3000IQ REDDITOR and I SAY SO

I agree but what is the combat like? If it was great at some things I can accept half assed immersion.

 

[Morgoth]

Comparisons, expectations... NPCs squabbling among themselves like defective algos.

 

[JarlFrank]

It's clear that Carrie that didn't go around in TOW killing randos, stealing things. She doesn't care about any of that.

So basially Carrie doesn't care about games actually reacting to player actions, and we're supposed to be fine with that because it just happens to be her design principles.

If a designer's principles are SHIT then the resulting games will also be SHIT, it's that simple.

 

[luj1]

It's clear that Carrie that didn't go around in TOW killing randos, stealing things. She doesn't care about any of that.

This is like saying, Soyer is a retard who cannot design systems, so we should forgive him anyway

Why are you such an excuse machine? Just what is wrong with you, you idiotic tranny? You should be publicly flogged by a Cossack militia with sticks

 

[Roguey]

So basially Carrie doesn't care about games actually reacting to player actions, and we're supposed to be fine with that because it just happens to be her design principles.

If a designer's principles are SHIT then the resulting games will also be SHIT, it's that simple.

As Tim Cain would say "it's not for you."

Still Mostly Positive on Steam. The core Obsidian demographic is happy as they usually are. They're admittedly not a very large bunch, maybe a few hundred thousand at most. Bioware Jr never got anywhere close to a Bioware-sized audience, much less Bethesda.

 

[The Wall]

It's clear that Carrie that didn't go around in TOW killing randos, stealing things. She doesn't care about any of that.

And market doesn't care about things Carrie cares. Which is clearly shown in <48h since release by Steam. Why will Carrie be again Game Director on next flop? That's lesser question. Better question is: why should Codex care about Carrie Patel's Obsidian when Her Obsidian doesn't care about things we care? Care to explain

 

[The Wall]

IF this is Obsidian, and after Avowed there are no questions that Avowed = Modern Obsidian, why should We, with our priorities in RPG Design, give a fuck about Obsidian? I wish them and their Art Director bankruptcy

 

[Old Hans]

Obsidian needs to go back to the basics. They should just go download the New Vegas creation kit and make a new game with that. There is no downside to this at all

 

[markec]

You said "Because it's a Bioware game with a first-person camera hack."

From the article you posted:

"I think the best comparison is The Outer Worlds. I think that gives a much clearer idea of the scope of the game and also the design and layout."

Is Outer Worlds a Bioware game or a game closer to Mass Effect then New Vegas.

"Best comparison" doesn't mean "We're exactly like The Outer Worlds" which definitely wasn't exactly like New Vegas.

It's clear that Carrie that didn't go around in TOW killing randos, stealing things. She doesn't care about any of that.

The point still stands that the game was marketed as game similar to Skyrim/New Vegas/Outer Worlds depending on the source, not a Bioware like game.

Also just because she doesnt care about that doesnt mean we too should not care and just accept lazy design.

 

[luj1]

"it's not for you."

Still Mostly Positive on Steam. The core Obsidian demographic is happy

 

[JarlFrank]

Refer to my signature: simulationism and player reactivity are the ONLY design principles that actually lead to great games, always has been, always will be.
Fallout, Arcanum, Elder Scrolls, Gothic, Ultima, Deus Ex, all cared about giving the player choices in what actions to perform, and consequences for performing these actions.
Recent big hit RPGs like Larian's Original Sin and BG3 also care a lot about cool systems that interact, and letting the player have fun with that. They became HUGE hits and even convinced big publishers that turn based RPGs are a viable genre again!

Meanwhile stuff that might as well be CYOA because it barely lets the player interact with its world keeps failing, because nobody cares.

 

[Butter]

I was reviewing the Microsoft Gamedev Guidelines to see if there were any guidelines around attacking NPCs etc that could explain the decline being discussed.

Didn't find anything like that, but I did gather some crucial information that can help us rationalise the design of this game.

25-30% of Xbox Gamers identify as having a disability

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-...on-actions/accessible-by-design-from-day-one/

Side note, wtf does 'identify as having a disability' mean? I'm not really disabled, but I think I am?

Playing on a console means they're certified retarded. 70-75% of them just don't identify as such.

 

[Roguey]

The point still stands that the game was marketed as game similar to Skyrim/New Vegas/Outer Worlds depending on the source, not a Bioware like game.

They never said Skyrim or New Vegas. They said it was similar to The Outer Worlds. Feargus also namedropped Dragon Age and Mass Effect.

When we're starting up a product we basically say, all right, go play all these games, and even play our own games," said Urquhart. "It sounds silly, like why should we have our people play our own games? But it's important, and so we do.

"For Avowed, weirdly, it is go play BioWare games," said Urquhart, "go play Dragon Age, play Mass Effect,"

 

[The Wall]

Obsidian needs to go back to the basics. They should just go download the New Vegas creation kit and make a new game with that. There is no downside to this at all

I wish for Life to give me as many second chances as some people give studios like Obsidian, Bethesda and Bioware. All I need is one more second chance. If Obsidian can get it, I see no reason why shouldn't I

 

[luj1]

They never said Skyrim or New Vegas

 

[Litmanen]

Again, Oblivion's problems derive from bad systems design that was done deliberately, particularly to target a playerbase that was too stupid to find Caius Cosades in Morrowind.
Lack of development time or cut content were not a source of its problems, so I don't know what you're trying to get at.

Here's a long list of developer lies about Oblivion https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/which-oblivion-dev-lied-the-most.15427

There were multiple devs who outright stated that they weren't going to scale the whole world to your level knowing full-well the issues that would cause. They ended up shipping like that anyway, they just had no time to fine-tune it. They corrected it with Fallout 3.

Todd got that 80s Fleetwood Mac song as his theme meme song for a reason. He lies, that is, he promises features that end up having to be cut for time.

This shit from Oblivion development days, I'm VERY much informed on it, shows 2 things: "Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies" and FUCKING AMBITION! Back when Games Industry had BALLS and was made by men for men every new big budget game had AMBITION. Game Studios wanted to one up each other, and be better then their past selfs, push the limit of possible. Now when it's made by eunuchs, lesbians and trannies, it's just one more corporate office job to them. More fun to be had in Microsoft Excel then in Avowed

You've already posted a bunch of messages in the thread, and not a single one is actually about THE GAME. You keep going on these rants about the developers, the industry, the agenda, Infinitron, Roguey, and everything else. It's nonstop. You're painfully boring and obnoxious. All your posts are the same and say absolutely nothing.

And just to be clear: is the game bad? Does it suck? Is it nowhere near as good as some other games? I might even agree with you on that, sure. But you're fucking unbearable with all these USELESS, identical posts in every thread. You make it impossible to read a discussion and actually get opinions on THE GAME BEING PLAYED.

I want to know HOW and WHY the quest design in THIS GAME is bad, IN THIS GAME. I don't give a damn about reading a hundred posts about how the devs have pink hair. You're fucking unbearable, idiot.

"Why was The Wall banned again?"