KickStarter ATOM RPG - Wasteland Soviet style! - now with Dead City update

[Max Edge]

It's professional, but the beginning looks a bit jarring because you are weak as shit and it takes some time to get used to the controls.

All these NPCs which give you 33 xp for picking line #5 are nothing but filler and should have been replaced with melcars from Fallout; the writing from them should have been pulled and went into more Dan-like quests.


It's your eastern european fallout clone 101, 500% potato vodka concentration. But it's not buggy or anything, it's competent, has good C&C, and developers obviously invested lots of love in it. Just... not entirely in the right places and they copied a bit too much from Fallout without thinking, while also failing to copy some of the good things (like Skill Index).

Thank both of you. It's looks like I expected.

I will buy this one.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

the writing from them should have been pulled and went into more Dan-like quests.

I cannot argue with that.

 

[Max Edge]

What means Dan-like?

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

What means Dan-like?

Dan is a NPC. His quests are some of the most interesting in the game.

 

[Technomancer]

Since we are speaking about writing they could use a little moderation sometimes. As fans of AoD they could take some clues on enemy battle blurbs on critical hits from that game. In AoD critted people will say curse words and short phrases and that is normal human reaction for injury. In ATOM people go: "Aww, damn, you got me in me eyes! Never gonna see shit from now on!" or "Ain't worth to live like this even if we win!". That is silly and off-putting. If you fighting someone you never should say aloud to your opponent how much of a good strike he gave you, in fact usually people pretend that it was not as bad as it looked because no one wants to give an edge to your enemy in combat, even psychological one. I get why they did it - to make the targeted strikes feel more distinct but it is overdone a bit.

 

[Shadenuat]

They're fans of AoD? Strange, because AoD has completely different writing by design. I'm not sure it wastes a single line of dialogue. It makes it somewhat dry, but at the same time everything you say usually affects the story.

 

[Drowed]

All these NPCs which give you 33 xp for picking line #5 are nothing but filler and should have been replaced with melcars from Fallout; the writing from them should have been pulled and went into more Dan-like quests.

I think your notion of waste/filler isn't necessarily universal. I mean, I agree with the idea that since we're going to invest working time in the dialogues of any character, it would be nice to invest that time in something more productive as a good quest with multiple solutions, for example.

But we have two contrasting design philosophies. On one hand, we have the notion that "a game is a game", so all productive time should be directly invested in things that have a direct reflection on the gameplay - like items, quests, enemies, etc. On the other hand, there is the idea that a game is also an audiovisual (or even literary) work, which means that it tries to build a real-like world. And in a world that tries to be "real", people don't exist just to offer you quests or XP, but they exist because they simply live there. Talking to these people and knowing a little about their life is something that expands the world's setting, shows that people live there, that they have their problems, their opinions and their own goals.

It's as filler as the furniture in someone's house. Maybe they don't use 10% of what's there, and probably in their living room all you'd need is the couch, a table, a chair and a TV. And that house would be perfectly functional. But it's all the rest, all the decorations, paintings, photos and "useless" objects that create the personality of the environment and make you feel that someone really lives there. On the opposite side of this you have games like Witcher 3 where 99% of the NPCs are just objects in the map where the maximum interaction you can have with them is bumping into them or running over them with your horse. Which is funny sometimes, I give you that.

I mean, maybe ATOM didn't really balance the investment of time in the dialogues well and in fact could (or should) have really directed the efforts towards more productive interactions, and it would be a better game for it. My only point is that the idea that NPCs that don't offer quests or are part of quests aren't necessarily a waste of time either.

 

[Shadenuat]

They may be not a waste of time, but only if they're done in a non-copypasted graphomania way. See how they're done in Planescape. Prostitutes, dabus, guides, bandits, bariuar, traders, abishai, dustmen - they're optional, but they have unique interactions, sometimes with your companions, different flow in dialogue (do not fuck with abishai) and add to the setting and support the narrative of the game.

Atom is like downgraded Numanuma in that sense. This writing is boring and useless.

 

[Drowed]

Well, one thing I agree with is the fact that the conversations are overwhelmingly generic. Atomboy commented somewhere that there was a reason why all interactions follow exactly the same pattern: "work", "how's life", "talk about yourself", "rumors"; and that's it. Sometimes a new option or two depending on some quest or context. I do understand the logic of "why I could ask this question to certain people and not to others" (that ended up leading to this), but the final effect really didn't turn out to be very organic, precisely because the characters end up stuck to that same basic skeleton of interaction. I think I liked the motivation behind their existence more than the final outcome, I guess.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

They may be not a waste of time, but only if they're done in a non-copypasted graphomania way. See how they're done in Planescape. Prostitutes, dabus, guides, bandits, bariuar, traders, abishai, dustmen - they're optional, but they have unique interactions, sometimes with your companions, different flow in dialogue (do not fuck with abishai) and add to the setting and support the narrative of the game.

Atom is like downgraded Numanuma in that sense. This writing is boring and useless.

I must have played a different game then, because I loved the NPCs. Their different personalities and stories, their unique portraits… I can’t remember a single cRPG with so many unique portraits. The way I see things the problem does not lie int the quality of the dialogue, but in the quests. You have Fedex quests that don’t their NPCs any justice.

Well, one thing I agree with is the fact that the conversations are overwhelmingly generic. Atomboy commented somewhere that there was a reason why all interactions follow exactly the same pattern: "work", "how's life", "talk about yourself", "rumors"; and that's it. Sometimes a new option or two depending on some quest or context. I do understand the logic of "why I could ask this question to certain people and not to others" (that ended up leading to this), but the final effect really didn't turn out to be very organic, precisely because the characters end up stuck to that same basic skeleton of interaction. I think I liked the motivation behind their existence more than the final outcome, I guess.

The entry for most dialogues is formulaic and should be improved, but their reactions to your questions are varied as it gets.

 

[Sòren]

They may be not a waste of time, but only if they're done in a non-copypasted graphomania way. See how they're done in Planescape. Prostitutes, dabus, guides, bandits, bariuar, traders, abishai, dustmen - they're optional, but they have unique interactions, sometimes with your companions, different flow in dialogue (do not fuck with abishai) and add to the setting and support the narrative of the game.

Atom is like downgraded Numanuma in that sense. This writing is boring and useless.

this is just wrong. think of the writing quality what you like, i won't waste my time with such discussions. npcs in ATOM are contributing a hundred times more to the world however than those in planescape torment.

 

[Shadenuat]

If bigger picture means better argument I have a lot of screenshots from anime I like.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

lot of screenshots from anime I like.

Nah, we're good.

 

[Shadenuat]

like, I once posted that cute elf girl in elf thread--

Nah, we're good.

Alright, alright.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

cute elf girl in elf thread--

You shall burn for this though.

 

[Atomboy]

Since we are speaking about writing they could use a little moderation sometimes. As fans of AoD they could take some clues on enemy battle blurbs on critical hits from that game. In AoD critted people will say curse words and short phrases and that is normal human reaction for injury. In ATOM people go: "Aww, damn, you got me in me eyes! Never gonna see shit from now on!" or "Ain't worth to live like this even if we win!". That is silly and off-putting. If you fighting someone you never should say aloud to your opponent how much of a good strike he gave you, in fact usually people pretend that it was not as bad as it looked because no one wants to give an edge to your enemy in combat, even psychological one. I get why they did it - to make the targeted strikes feel more distinct but it is overdone a bit.

Weird, there's as much of "AAARGH" and "AIIIIAAA" as more cohesive phrases! We'll check the percentages.

Well, one thing I agree with is the fact that the conversations are overwhelmingly generic. Atomboy commented somewhere that there was a reason why all interactions follow exactly the same pattern: "work", "how's life", "talk about yourself", "rumors"; and that's it. Sometimes a new option or two depending on some quest or context. I do understand the logic of "why I could ask this question to certain people and not to others" (that ended up leading to this), but the final effect really didn't turn out to be very organic, precisely because the characters end up stuck to that same basic skeleton of interaction. I think I liked the motivation behind their existence more than the final outcome, I guess.

They are generic with generic people. Like, when you get to Patryk the grenade-necklace wearing freak based on our favorite Polish letsplayer you won't get boring stuff about beetroot. But normal "boring" mundane people are a huge part of our worldbuilding. We want to show, that this is a relatively normal, toned down world where some people's biggest worry is beetroot harvest or spooky stories about mud ants. We'd fail at that pretty hard, if we would make every character a unique and unforgettable roller coaster ride. I remember like ten times when I toned down an NPC because he was too entertaining.

Spoiler

Though to be honest, I don't actually see any NPCs as boring, because not a single one is a copypasta of another one, most have hidden clues, checks, or simply just stories. But that's just me.

A lot of people critique Atom for these walls of text, but we don't actually push the player to read them. You're good if you only speak to important people. These dialogues are there as much for the player to read, as they are to make the world believable. Like, you don't talk to every single person on a street when you drive to some town for some reason in the real world, right? But if you WOULD, they would all have some boring (or not so boring) unique shit to tell you, right? They would not have a single line of text or just nothing. That's why Atom's NPCs are like that. You are not obliged to talk to them, and most of the times it's pretty easy to see which NPC is a quest giver and which one is not, and we'll try to make this difference even larger in Trudograd. But in case you would for some reason WANT TO chat with a rando grandma, you will be able to do it. I know it's not OBJECTIVELY better than games with single line NPCs or things like Skyrim where every single NPC is fun and entertaining. But it's something I will do even if I make an FPS. My biggest rage moment in any otherwise good game (not just RPG, even god damn GTA 5 I dropped because I couldn't talk to my character's friends when I visited them while not doing a quest) is meeting a one-line NPC who serves as a decoration. So yeah, there's some of my freaky OCD thing with one line NPCs in the pile of reasons for this in Atom too, won't lie...
Oh and the other part you remembered correctly, the system must be there, because if you can ask one NPC about the weather, but you can ask the other one about pine trees, it would be illogical. So we even wrote in that story about you being trained to ask these specific 4 questions unless you can't for some reason :D

They may be not a waste of time, but only if they're done in a non-copypasted graphomania way. See how they're done in Planescape. Prostitutes, dabus, guides, bandits, bariuar, traders, abishai, dustmen - they're optional, but they have unique interactions, sometimes with your companions, different flow in dialogue (do not fuck with abishai) and add to the setting and support the narrative of the game.

Atom is like downgraded Numanuma in that sense. This writing is boring and useless.

B-but almost every dialogue in Atom has companion interaction and different stories and none are copypasted and most have differing tones... While all prostitutes, dabus and other nameless folks are basically a single NPC... Like, I understand that the game hurt you, dude, but now you're just being mean If it offended you, offending it in return won't soothe the wounds and will only breed more offense. You played through it, you read through it, you know it pretty well, since you seem to be okay with stating things about it as facts and recommending or not recommending it to folks. Thus, you know, that every single NPC, even those you don't need to talk to unless you for some reason wanna, contributes to lore and worldbuilding, and at least 70% of them have companions saying something. So what gives?!

Also, while not Anne Rice novels, the dialogues are competently written, especially in Russian. There is a huge difference between factually bad written, and written in a way that you do not enjoy. Like, if someone makes a very rich and funny joke about my mom, I would not like it (I would actually, she's lame) but it won't make the joke unfunny or badly written...


====
Also to RK47 who's post I could not find because I'm a boomer, I fucked up, they don't have the bunker key they have a stash key. So I wondered why that is. Then I replayed that part and when the dude opens the bunker for you he says he's BREAKING IN, not opening with key! My bad. This was one of the first locations so I forgot :''\

 

[Shadenuat]

We want to show, that this is a relatively normal, toned down world where some people's biggest worry is beetroot harvest or spooky stories about mud ants

Are you serious? I mean, in the very first location of the game you can

Spoiler

summon cthulhu, make goldfish give u wish and kill a rat from nutcracker. THE MAIN PLOT IS ABOUT A SENTIENT MUSHROOM!

Having people just talk about mud ants is not really a best way to make your point what the world is about. Quest lines like Dan quest or caravan quests are however. You should have focused on that instead.

If you want an example of competent falloutesque writing focusing on earthly things, I just finished Fallout Nevada and in my opinion it did a better job by far.

A lot of people critique Atom for these walls of text, but we don't actually push the player to read them.

You're doing exactly that.

First of all, the existence of content already means content would or should be approached by the player, otherwise why have it?

Second, you reward players with XP for these interactions. Furthermore, you hide them behind Charisma checks which means people probably would re-roll with high CHA; which I did; then to learn that hidden things are mostly just fluff.

But most importantly, this design by default means that players would have to read through all NPCs. Why? Because when every NPC is named and has unique dialogue, it means that ANY NPC can have unique quests or be important to the story. If in Fallout you meet 5 melcars walking around and 1 dude in black jacket, you probably would guess that you need to talk to dude in a jacket since he has unique sprite and melcars just usually go around and at most react to you clicking on them with a few default strings of text.

In ATOM, you don't know if NPC is just furniture or maybe he hides a quest. Even early locations are example of this, like brick factory, where one guard has miniquest and unique interaction with female character, another is a gal, but there are also those which are not really important.

Also if you're adding NPC dialogue to the game, don't you think player would always read it at least because they won't want to miss important information or clues about the world? Obsidian had to give baker NPCs golden plackets to show they're optional and that was an issue with that game.

So yeah, there's some of my freaky OCD thing with one line NPCs in the pile of reasons for this in Atom too, won't lie...

There is a word for this

It's called

GRAPHOMANIA

Get over it, or at least try to, and your next game would have much better writing for sure.

B-but almost every dialogue in Atom has companion interaction and different stories and none are copypasted and most have differing tones...

Having thing and making thing work and contribute to the game are two different things.

If it offended you, offending it in return won't soothe the wounds and will only breed more offense.

I cannot provide answers to arguments like "it's competent u just don't like it", factually vs not factually, objective vs subjective and all that tumblr steam and other common non argument things.

How did I offend the game? Did I downvote it on steam or something and didn't notice? Or was that:

It's your eastern european fallout clone 101, 500% potato vodka concentration. But it's not buggy or anything, it's competent, has good C&C, and developers obviously invested lots of love in it. Just... not entirely in the right places and they copied a bit too much from Fallout without thinking, while also failing to copy some of the good things (like Skill Index).

a terrible recommendation?

If you mean readability and no mistakes is competent for a dialogue then I can't argue with that.

If you think quantity can turn into quality I am not sure I can change your opinion on the matter either.

I know there are some reactions from companions like one dude knows Hexagen past. But it doesn't go any further than that I think, it's not like you unveil something complicated Morte/Dakkon style. Of course this comparison is kinda silly and I don't expect that level of writing or detail, but since some people think ATOMs named NPCs are better and they have buttons to press to prove it... what can u do.

every single NPC, even those you don't need to talk to unless you for some reason wanna, contributes to lore and worldbuilding

I am sure they thought as much when they wrote Numenera too.

 

[Atomboy]

We want to show, that this is a relatively normal, toned down world where some people's biggest worry is beetroot harvest or spooky stories about mud ants

Are you serious? I mean, in the very first location of the game you can

Spoiler

summon cthulhu, make goldfish give u wish and kill a rat from nutcracker. THE MAIN PLOT IS ABOUT A SENTIENT MUSHROOM!

Having people just talk about mud ants is not really a best way to make your point what the world is about. Quest lines like Dan quest or caravan quests are however. You should have focused on that instead.

If you want an example of competent falloutesque writing focusing on earthly things, I just finished Fallout Nevada and in my opinion it did a better job by far.

A lot of people critique Atom for these walls of text, but we don't actually push the player to read them.

You're doing exactly that.

First of all, the existence of content already means content would or should be approached by the player, otherwise why have it?

Second, you reward players with XP for these interactions.

But most importantly, this design by default means that players would have to read through all NPCs. Why? Because when every NPC is named and has unique dialogue, it means that ANY NPC can have unique quests or be important to the story. If in Fallout you meet 5 melcars walking around and 1 dude in black jacket, you probably would guess that you need to talk to dude in a jacket since he has unique sprite and melcars just usually go around and at most react to you clicking on them with a few default strings of text.

In ATOM, you don't know if NPC is just furniture or maybe he hides a quest. Even early locations are example of this, like brick factory, where one guard has miniquest and unique interaction with female character, another is a gal, but there are also those which are not really important.

Also if you're adding NPC dialogue to the game, don't you think player would always read it at least because they won't want to miss important information or clues about the world? Obsidian had to give baker NPCs golden plackets to show they're optional and that was an issue with that game.

So yeah, there's some of my freaky OCD thing with one line NPCs in the pile of reasons for this in Atom too, won't lie...

There is a word for this

It's called

GRAPHOMANIA

Get over it, or at least try to, and your next game would have much better writing for sure.

B-but almost every dialogue in Atom has companion interaction and different stories and none are copypasted and most have differing tones...

Having thing and making thing work and contribute to the game are two different things.

If it offended you, offending it in return won't soothe the wounds and will only breed more offense.

I cannot provide answers to arguments like "it's competent u just don't like it", factually vs not factually, objective vs subjective and all that tumblr steam and other common non argument things.

How did I offend the game? Did I downvote it on steam or something and didn't notice? Or was that:

It's your eastern european fallout clone 101, 500% potato vodka concentration. But it's not buggy or anything, it's competent, has good C&C, and developers obviously invested lots of love in it. Just... not entirely in the right places and they copied a bit too much from Fallout without thinking, while also failing to copy some of the good things (like Skill Index).

a terrible recommendation?

If you mean readability and no mistakes is competent for a dialogue then I can't argue with that.

If you think quantity can turn into quality I am not sure I can change your opinion on the matter either.

I know there are some reactions from companions like one dude knows Hexagen past. But it doesn't go any further than that I think, it's not like you unveil something complicated Morte/Dakkon style. Of course this comparison is kinda silly and I don't expect that level of writing or detail, but since some people think ATOMs named NPCs are better and they have buttons to press to prove it... what can u do.

every single NPC, even those you don't need to talk to unless you for some reason wanna, contributes to lore and worldbuilding

I am sure they thought as much when they wrote Numenera too.

I don't know how to automate those cool quote thingies so I'll just use bold!

Are you serious? I mean, in the very first location of the game you can

Spoiler

summon cthulhu, make goldfish give u wish and kill a rat from nutcracker. THE MAIN PLOT IS ABOUT A SENTIENT MUSHROOM!

You're talking about an easter egg, a very hard to get secret thing and another easter egg and the sci-fi part of the plot. The world is weird, mystical, a little sci-fi and crazy, but we're talking about NPCs here, and the society in the game is mostly very down to Earth. NPC wise the village has a chick doing book keeping for a bar, a former poacher, a silly bartender, an old widow, a former militia dude, etc. Pretty down to Earth!


Having people just talk about mud ants is not really a best way to make your point what the world is about. Quest lines like Dan quest or caravan quests are however. You should have focused on that instead.

If you want an example of competent falloutesque writing focusing on earthly things, I just finished Fallout Nevada and in my opinion it did a better job by far.

Well we did focus on that, since there are quests like these! But everyone can't be linked to an awesome major quest, it's just not real. Some people just wanna live their lives and eat potatos. It's what makes fun things stand out and be fun.

You're doing exactly that.

First of all, the existence of content already means content would or should be approached by the player, otherwise why have it?

Second, you reward players with XP for these interactions.

But most importantly, this design by default means that players would have to read through all NPCs. Why? Because when every NPC is named and has unique dialogue, it means that ANY NPC can have unique quests or be important to the story. If in Fallout you meet 5 melcars walking around and 1 dude in black jacket, you probably would guess that you need to talk to dude in a jacket since he has unique sprite and melcars just usually go around and at most react to you clicking on them with a few default strings of text.

That's a pretty munchkin approach. If there's XP to be had, you don't need to grab it as if your life depends on it. You can ignore it in one place and get it in another. If I remember correctly (and I don't, but close) there's around 5 or 6 obligatory dialogues in the game if you count 3 VILa dialogues as separate dialogues. You can win by killing everyone in the world and getting your intel off their corpses. You can get the same experience (and more) by killing stuff. We have a few players that just did the main mission and a few in-your-face side quests. The hidden quests, XP and checks are rewards for those who play as a talker who likes talking to everyone. Those who don't like that get awarded by combat encounters. If there's a quest or dialogue we'd like to show off, (but still not force on the player) like the Lenin statue one, we'll have an NPC look weird and flail about or scream stuff above his head and not walk around usually. It's not a black jacket, or a gold plaque, but it does the trick. There's XP everywhere, like around 20 instances where a certain perk or stat combination gives you XP in a dialogue. Are we forcing the people to become possessed morphine addicts with 11 luck and an STD from a tri-boob lady because there's extra XP in that? Don't think so!

GRAPHOMANIA

Nope, graphomania is usually used to describe writing for the sake of writing or some weird banana shit like that - which is why nobody apart from Russian Intelligentsia ever uses the term - and even then uses it as a fancy way to say "I don't like you" - I mingled with writers most of my teens, and I saw many Writers become Graphomaniacs because they didn't give money they loaned back to other writers, or got drunk and touched boobs of other writers during a writer vodka drinking party (yeah that's a thing) - Me and my buddy are writing for the sake of making the world look alive - with it's own books, newspapers, and people who know more than one line of text and have personalities and backstories. The short stories and /b/ pastas I write once in a blue moon for my own satisfaction and laughs look nothing alike to the in-game dialogues, because in-game dialogues serve a completely different, logical purpose.


Having thing and making thing work and contribute to the game are two different things.

But they actually do though. How else would you know that this universe actually had a city called Kitezh and it sunk after being nuked or that one of the moonshiners' wives had a thing with the lispy grandpa from Otradnoye? :D See, this is not a non-argument, subjectivity is part of the nature of a man, not unlike loving Planescape which I also do by the way, but I have nothing but respect for those who don't because it's not their thing. Atom worked for a lot of folks and it didn't work for you and some other folks. And even for these other people it worked and didn't work for entirely different reasons. We had a positive review saying This game has so much Soviet klykva stuff hahaha noice work dudes! And a negative review saying This game has not enough Soviet klyukva, it's a soulless americanized ZOG propaganda piece. Saying they are wrong and you are the one holding the facts here because Я скозал and making 4 pages of posts over it is the non-argument

Spoiler

And using anime reaction pics is the tumblr steam.

There was no REAL offense, and I wasn't talking about that awesome recommendation you gave. As you can see I'm a playful, childlike video game developer and I use my words lightheartedly and without putting too much serious meaning into them. But saying the writing is objectively bad and useless and doesn't contribute to world building and companion interaction was pretty much uncalled for.

Now I know I'll look like I'm licking my own balls here, but believe me, I'd say it if Atom wasn't made by me at all. I don't glorify it, I'm the first one to admit the skill tree is retarded, and many other flaws, but still... Come on. The dialogues are not just readable with no mistakes (because some are not readable and have tons of mistakes). They are also nicely stylized - a babushka speaks like a babushka while a gopnik speaks like a gopnik and an anime villain from the Death Quest speaks like an anime villain. They are full of literary references and homages style-wise, tons of tongue and cheek and mostly unfunny humor, they give a lot of lore and character background, and last but not least, they don't seek an easy way out of a situation by making everything klyukva and tovarish. They are creative, varied, beautiful! ... In my opinion. And I'd totally respect yours, though I have this nagging feeling you saying the opposite is not the matter of taste but another thing.

I know there are some reactions from companions like one dude knows Hexagen past. But it doesn't go any further than that I think, it's not like you unveil something complicated Morte/Dakkon style. Of course this comparison is kinda silly and I don't expect that level of writing or detail, but since some people think ATOMs named NPCs are better and they have buttons to press to prove it... what can u do.

I don't like romance. And being able to befriend and open new and new topics with your companion will lead to romance and plowing poor old Hexogen in a barn somewhere. They have opinions on your actions, push you to do certain things and not do other things, and even leave you or turn against you in some situations, but making Fidel learn a new action move because you studied the writings on his tubetayka with 21 INT was too much for me.

I am sure they thought as much when they wrote Numenera too.

I bet they didn't! I bet they just wanted to make it bizarre and funky to the max! And they sure did that! Yes they did! Oh, how much they did... Oh God. Still 4/5 for me though!

 

[Shadenuat]

I don't think there's way to automate quotes; I copypaste lines then select them and press quote button - the ' ' one.

You're talking about an easter egg, a very hard to get secret thing and another easter egg

In a single location. You don't think you went overboard with this?

munchkin approach
The hidden quests, XP and checks are rewards for those who play as a talker who likes talking to everyone.

So you hide them behind Charisma checks which means people probably would re-roll with high CHA, which say I did, only then to learn that many hidden things are mostly just fluff. Is that also munchkin approach then? Is unlocking game content munchkinism?

You cannot use anime pictures on Steam. There's no code for it.

Your further answers make no sense to me. First you admit that you can't stand NPCs with just 1 line of dialogue, then go back on it. Licking balls indeed. How exactly should I make arguments, 3 pages instead of 4? What would a respectable number be? Or should I just never played the game but shitposted about it regardless?

I gave you my arguments why this NPC design doesn't really work. I don't think any good RPG ever did it, because wasting all the writing on them like that is a waste of resources, it confuses people and doesn't help to focus the writing into right direction (like quests). I think only RPGs with systemic dialogue (keywords) like Morrowind sorta approached it. You just say "don't read it", but that's not much of an answer.

They are full of literary references and homages style-wise... and mostly unfunny humor

That is indeed true.

I don't like romance. And being able to befriend and open new and new topics with your companion will lead to romance and plowing poor old Hexogen in a barn somewhere. They have opinions on your actions, push you to do certain things and not do other things, and even leave you or turn against you in some situations, but making Fidel learn a new action move because you studied the writings on his tubetayka with 21 INT was too much for me.

Still 4/5 for me though!

I thought comparing your game saying it's worse than Numenera, a game which still featured a few talented guys like Avellone, Ziets & MRY, was a terrible offence?

 

[Technomancer]

Weird, there's as much of "AAARGH" and "AIIIIAAA" as more cohesive phrases! We'll check the percentages.

Nah, it's not about the percentages, it is about that silly stuff, that the enemies say sometimes. You don't want to let your foe know that he got you good, it just doesn't work like that for humans so it looks artificial and forced in-game. If it is necessary for targeted hits/crits - keep it simple, that was my point.

I don't mind it that much, but that line about how it "Ain't worth to live like this even if we win!" is the worst offender, stuff like that I would prefer not to see at all in your future projects.

 

[Shadenuat]

We had a positive review saying This game has so much Soviet klykva stuff hahaha noice work dudes! And a negative review saying This game has not enough Soviet klyukva

Good world building is not about klyukva. There can be lulzy settings and games where it makes sense and serves the game (idk, say Dungeon Keeper - humorous setting, serves the game). You want a particular (let's call it artistic) interpretation of things from real world, with a distinctive visual style and theme. That is what you are so trying to copy - you want to copy Fallout, which managed to mix everything together just in right proportions without being retarded about it like Bethesda made it.

But you (and Russian developers in general, due to being enamoured with our beloved childhood games) fail because you don't know how exactly to do it or what things to copy I think.

At the same time games like Stalker and Metro seem to accomplish this quite well, it's just that RPGs for some reason usually do not.

 

[Atomboy]

I don't think there's way to automate quotes; I copypaste lines then select them and press quote button - the ' ' one.

You're talking about an easter egg, a very hard to get secret thing and another easter egg

In a single location. You don't think you went overboard with this?

munchkin approach
The hidden quests, XP and checks are rewards for those who play as a talker who likes talking to everyone.

So you hide them behind Charisma checks which means people probably would re-roll with high CHA, which say I did, only then to learn that many hidden things are mostly just fluff. Is that also munchkin approach then? Is unlocking game content munchkinism?

You cannot use anime pictures on Steam. There's no code for it.

Your further answers make no sense to me. First you admit that you can't stand NPCs with just 1 line of dialogue, then go back on it. Licking balls indeed. How exactly should I make arguments, 3 pages instead of 4? What would a respectable number be? Or should I just never played the game but shitposted about it regardless?

I gave you my arguments why this NPC design doesn't really work. I don't think any good RPG ever did it, because wasting all the writing on them like that is a waste of resources, it confuses people and doesn't help to focus the writing into right direction (like quests). I think only RPGs with systemic dialogue (keywords) like Morrowind sorta approached it. You just say "don't read it", but that's not much of an answer.

They are full of literary references and homages style-wise... and mostly unfunny humor

That is indeed true.

I don't like romance. And being able to befriend and open new and new topics with your companion will lead to romance and plowing poor old Hexogen in a barn somewhere. They have opinions on your actions, push you to do certain things and not do other things, and even leave you or turn against you in some situations, but making Fidel learn a new action move because you studied the writings on his tubetayka with 21 INT was too much for me.

Still 4/5 for me though!

I thought comparing your game saying it's worse than Numenera, a game which still featured a few talented guys like Avellone, Ziets & MRY, was a terrible offence?

Oof! Sorry dude, I might have missed the part where you said that the dialogues are bad because theys confuses people and doesn't help to focus the writing into right direction (like quests), I'll take your word for it, because I thought your complaints were based around you not liking the way they are written, not the fact that they are written at all. This is a completely respectable position unlike that of some other guy using your exact username who bit his tongue so pain would make it easier to go through writing in this game on russian (He thinks if you're russian, you should play this on english, that way less of all that writing gets translated because a lot of it is awful references and graphomania, and the writing is boring and useless and doesn't do anything and doesn't work and companions do not say anything.

I can argue with the latter, because the writing is pretty kewl, and every line has it's meaning for the world, but we can agree to disagree with this actual position you actually have as it turned out. I don't believe games with unimportant NPCs not having dialogues are bad, I just don't like them and wanna do my thing, even though it might confuse someone.

Not reading is an option, though! And not liking dialogues, not making your char dialogue-centered, and still wanting that XP from dialogues is pretty munchkin! The game even has a few non-charismatic non-smart options, so it's kinda fun either way, especially because awesome amulets work with low INT. Even though the game has more stuff for a talker than for a non-talker, I know for a fact, that we got players that skip most NPC interactions and give positive reviews.

4 pages is cool, as are 6 and 13. You said a lot of helpful stuff and helped me fill a few new lines of my Codex Advice txt file we're gonna use in the next project. I was kinda irked by the constant misinformation about the dialogues spread across these pages, so I summoned myself to tell you how it is. If I completely missed the point, I can take it. I'm a big boy! But I think I didn't miss nuthin...

Weird, there's as much of "AAARGH" and "AIIIIAAA" as more cohesive phrases! We'll check the percentages.

Nah, it's not about the percentages, it is about that silly stuff, that the enemies say sometimes. You don't want to let your foe know that he got you good, it just doesn't work like that for humans so it looks artificial and forced in-game. If it is necessary for targeted hits/crits - keep it simple, that was my point.

I don't mind it that much, but that line about how it "Ain't worth to live like this even if we win!" is the worst offender, stuff like that I would prefer not to see at all in your future projects.

Well, though it's pretty silly for an enemy to say this, stuff like that is pretty rewarding for the player. By the player I mean me, but I bet there are others. Like, whoaaa look how much I crippled this dude! He doesn't even wanna live anymore! But I get your point. Trudograd might have more screaming and less defeatist talk.

We had a positive review saying This game has so much Soviet klykva stuff hahaha noice work dudes! And a negative review saying This game has not enough Soviet klyukva

Good world building is not about klyukva. There can be lulzy settings and games where it makes sense and serves the game (idk, say Dungeon Keeper - humorous setting, serves the game). You want a particular (let's call it artistic) interpretation of things from real world, with a distinctive visual style and theme. That is what you are so trying to copy - you want to copy Fallout, which managed to mix everything together just in right proportions without being retarded about it like Bethesda made it.

But you (and Russian developers in general, due to being enamoured with our beloved childhood games) fail because you don't know how exactly to do it or what things to copy I think.

At the same time games like Stalker and Metro seem to accomplish this quite well, it's just that RPGs for some reason usually do not.

When did I say it was about klyukva though? This was an example of how polarizing the reviews might get for the game... Atom isn't a stylized setting at all, if you mean like the way Fallout's setting was deeply stylized. And that copying bit is just weird. You think I tried to copy Fallout with the setting? Have you played Fallout? O_O

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

That's a pretty munchkin approach. If there's XP to be had, you don't need to grab it as if your life depends on it.

You know that players react to incentives, in this case in the form of XP rewards. You give them XPs like candy in the hopes of luring them to read a text that is not related to any quest or gameplay event. That’s a style of design that is predicated on misleading the player to compel him to do stuff that is not in his best interest, and I’m saying this as a player who read every nook and cranny available.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

Not reading is an option, though! And not liking dialogues, not making your char dialogue-centered, and still wanting that XP from dialogues is pretty munchkin!

The problem is that the player can’t tell a priori whether if any given dialogue is quest-related or not, especially if we consider that the player is showered with XPs in every dialogue. It’s good to have flavour dialogue if you don’t have 100 NPCs with them. What is the point of so many NPCs if most of them are there just to add flavour to the gameworld? Moreover, in a text-heavy game such as this, it is taken for granted that a charismatic character with have many additional quests. That has nothing to do with being munchkin. It is just common sense.

 

[Atomboy]

That's a pretty munchkin approach. If there's XP to be had, you don't need to grab it as if your life depends on it.

You know that players react to incentives, in this case in the form of XP rewards. You give them XPs like candy in the hopes of luring them to read a text that is not related to any quest or gameplay event. That’s a style of design that is predicated on misleading the player to compel him to do stuff that is not in his best interest, and I’m saying this as a player who read every nook and cranny available.

Sorry, man! I just never saw it that way like at all, though I can totally get how it can be seen that way. We always worked from the opposite idea. Make texts, just because everyone should be able to speak, and if player chooses to speak to unneeded person, give him EXP for doing so. None of us cares for these texts so much we wanna deviously lure players to read them all. Even I don't read all of them. It's a real shame that it can be interpreted like that and right now I don't have any idea on how to make it not look like that :\