KickStarter ATOM RPG - Wasteland Soviet style! - now with Dead City update

[krilcebre]

Guys I think I've found their tester.

 

[razvedchiki]

he is practising bullshido?

 

[krilcebre]

What ever he is practicing, it's OP.

 

[pm_675]

And now, some insight into the next patch, as written by the balance guy and translated by me:


2. Casual-proofing pistols, SMGs and some ARs. All weapons were perfectly balanced before, but to see it you had to look at bullet properties. Since this is too hard for the casuals, we will be making it so low ap guns will have low damage and low armor piercing qualities, and high ap guns will have high damage and high armor piercing qualities, so the casual could be all like "ug, this gun has big number on it so it must be good" and he will be correct, instead of wrong, like before.

Or instead of being passive-agressive about "casuals" not understanding the brilliancy of your system, you could, maybe I don't know, explain the systems?

Grotesque above asked how Shields works. RK47 and myself had asked clarification on how the systems works 10 or 15 days ago. It has been near a month from release and zero information given on how systems works.

I think that is in a large part, why some people are confused and demanding changes.

 

[Van-d-all]

I thought I even answered in the 2ch thread! That's another huge problem players get with out balance. Shooting weapons are not just AP and DAMAGE, they also have the percentage of going through armor. If you fire at a low tier rat or a naked man, 2ch would be completely correct - the tri-barrel one will be more efficient. However, attacking armored foes (and everyone is armored once you're in the big boy regions) you will deal much more damage with the 4-barrel, since the 4-barrel has the superior armor piercing qualities. That's how our balance guy explains it. That's why, for example, a shot from the Nagant costs 4, and has higher damage, but the Makarov costs 5 AP and has lower damage. The Makarov is still better, because it has higher armor piercing %. So when fighting rats or wasps that have no armor, you will deal more damage and have more DPS with the Nagant, but if it's a guy in armor, you'll have higher DPS with the Makarov, despite it having lower damage and higher AP values. That's pretty unintuitive though, I agree. I actually never knew this before I asked this for 2ch...

Except both 3 and 4 barrel rifles use same 12ga ammo, so unless there's an undocumented penetration stat for the guns themselves, there's pretty much no way of knowing that...

Also this is definitely not right:

Spoiler

 

[Cadmus]

Ok I started playing.
Just reached the Krasnosomething town.
I got a couple questions:
1) a patch just started downloading - what is it?
2) did I make a shit character?
Luck 10
Attn 7
Personality 7
STR 4
Dex 5
I think..

Speech I got 70 and still failed some checks already.

3) will I ever be able to get more Dex? 7 AP seems too little

So far the writing seems really nice, except for the fucking adventurer with wounded knees, fuck me I hope that meme dies finally.

 

[bataille]

Ok I started playing.
Just reached the Krasnosomething town.
I got a couple questions:
1) a patch just started downloading - what is it?
2) did I make a shit character?
Luck 10
Attn 7
Personality 7
STR 4
Dex 5
I think..

Speech I got 70 and still failed some checks already.

3) will I ever be able to get more Dex? 7 AP seems too little

So far the writing seems really nice, except for the fucking adventurer with wounded knees, fuck me I hope that meme dies finally.

Damn, that's a pretty monocled character. Go to Peregon and crash that space-faring hardware ASAP!

 

[krilcebre]

If you want to focus on combat, make a char with 10 dex.

 

[bataille]

postmodernist writers (direct citations from Vladimir Sorokin, Ilya Masodov, Venedikt Erofeyev)

Damn, Masodov... now I fantasize a rpg based on his novels, now that would be something terrific.

It's that supposedly fictional writer right? Presumably a Sorokin or/and someone else?

Dude, man, I don't know. Personally, I think that those rumors that Masodov isn't a real writer are a load of horseshit. You won't find a post-WWII Russian writer with a writing style as unique as his PERIOD. Sure, there are, like, three dozen examples of Sorokin passages scattered throughout his bibliography, but that doesn't mean shit. I say that Masodov is a real writer that's got some unconscious inspirations from Sorokin's early novels and that's it. His own writing is such a rare example of vision that I find it hilarious that some critics try their hardest to link him to some established postmodern writers. Dummies gonna dummy.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

And now, some insight into the next patch, as written by the balance guy and translated by me:

The idea is to make Combat System v2.0.
1. More variety in combat: enemy tiers that will intermix in combat. You only met one level enemies before. Now encounters will have mixed tiers - for example 1lvl cultists may be joined by a 5lvl gunner, or, a 10lvl gunner squad may partially consist of naked peasants. Works both to make game easier and harder, depending on the kind of mixture you will stumble upon.
2. Casual-proofing pistols, SMGs and some ARs. All weapons were perfectly balanced before, but to see it you had to look at bullet properties. Since this is too hard for the casuals, we will be making it so low ap guns will have low damage and low armor piercing qualities, and high ap guns will have high damage and high armor piercing qualities, so the casual could be all like "ug, this gun has big number on it so it must be good" and he will be correct, instead of wrong, like before.
3. Adding new melee and fist weapon friendly abilities to the now useless perks. Maybe a free running perk if it's not hard to create.
4. Respecking option written by one of the writers (it's gonna be me, Atomboy!)
5. Final solution to NPC behavior - some new scripts that will make them act more human, hopefully.

There you go!
I really hope this one is going to hit home for everybody that has a hard time with the weapons mentioned.
He asked for my feedback, so I sent him most of the codex suggestions. Any new ones are also welcome.

you can do many things to properly balance the weapons,you can decrease the ammo spawn rate for automatics/rifles decrease the chance of automatics/rifles spawning (after all enemy npcs dont use most of the best weapons up until very late game),so us casuals that cant understand the brilliant never-seen-before current balance that your amazing beta testing team has made have a chance to win the very hard fights you can solo with a rusty knife.

And now, some insight into the next patch, as written by the balance guy and translated by me:


2. Casual-proofing pistols, SMGs and some ARs. All weapons were perfectly balanced before, but to see it you had to look at bullet properties. Since this is too hard for the casuals, we will be making it so low ap guns will have low damage and low armor piercing qualities, and high ap guns will have high damage and high armor piercing qualities, so the casual could be all like "ug, this gun has big number on it so it must be good" and he will be correct, instead of wrong, like before.

Or instead of being passive-agressive about "casuals" not understanding the brilliancy of your system, you could, maybe I don't know, explain the systems?

Grotesque above asked how Shields works. RK47 and myself had asked clarification on how the systems works 10 or 15 days ago. It has been near a month from release and zero information given on how systems works.

I think that is in a large part, why some people are confused and demanding changes.

THIS. Maybe its a translation thing, but I think you got the definions of a casual played mixed up with, lets say .... a "CRPG enthusiast" who likes to understand the underlying game system rules and limitations to make a informed decision while creating a character and playing your game.

For examples - check out UnderRail, Age of Decadence, Dungeon Rats for examples how its done right in a clean, systematic way. There is zero shame in emulating quality work, it would only improve your game.

Also, whats the 1.0.7.1 patch notes? Cant find em

 

[Zer0wing]

DO NOT SPEAK OF THAT NAME EVER AGAIN.

?

What was wrong about Insomnia?

 

[krilcebre]

How odd, I took up the scrapyard mission, did the whole 'all out assault' option (it's the fastest and most profitable) and the quest giver told me there are still mutants around the scrapyard to kill.

Spoiler

Hah, picked the same dialog option, got the same outcome. Now I cannot get that damn chainsaw. I'm not under influence of a mushroom, so I don't think there is a problem (although I did that quest that requires you to eat a mushroom earlier). Atomboy can you look into it, now I cannot even use chainsaw for my melee build.

 

[RK47]

It's ok, you can always use a Dragunov in melee.

 

[Lhynn]

How important is attention? can you shoot shit with attention 1 if you invested skillpoints?

 

[krilcebre]

How important is attention? can you shoot shit with attention 1 if you invested skillpoints?

Yes but you will need to invest a lot of skill points. Plus you will be useless first 5-6 levels, and even more if you divide skill points for speechcraft and some other stuff. With Attention 1, you better max out the gun skill you want to use. I've tested it with grenades, and at 155 throwing weapons I have around 80-90 percent chance to hit at max range.

 

[Cadmus]

Fuck!
I made a save before leaving the bunker 371 cuz I suspected an ambush and ofc I died.
But when I reload previous two saves, my character is just lying on the ground, dead.

Any advice? Seems the game bugged up and I can't continue...

 

[Atomboy]

Does anyone know how shields work in this game?

I have a shield with +10% damage resistance (shield)
+ 3 damage threshold (shield)

When stats on an armour reads "(body)" I guess it applies when being hit to the body.

What does "(shield)" means?
So the shield must be targeted by the enemy ?
Its bonuses applies to the body by default?
Why its bonus are not shown on the inventory UI where dmg. res/threshold is?
When equipping the shiled, I see only str and dex debuff shown.

This is confusing as fuck

As far as I understand, if you hold your shield between yourself and an enemy who is shooting at you, you will get lower damage (the damage will be lowered by the body armor the shield has, summed with the armor you are wearing), or even no damage, because inside of the game shields have this total absorption % thing.

I can't wait for them to change perspective to first person so the casuals can rely more on reflex instead of counting AP and switching attacks.
By April 1st, 50% of the companions will be voiced and romance will be available.

I really hope it won't come to that. Pleasing everyone sounded pretty flawless, but I think it's failing. Although, if the new combat system will actually be understandable by those outside of the ranks of its creators, it will be a good thing.

And now, some insight into the next patch, as written by the balance guy and translated by me:


2. Casual-proofing pistols, SMGs and some ARs. All weapons were perfectly balanced before, but to see it you had to look at bullet properties. Since this is too hard for the casuals, we will be making it so low ap guns will have low damage and low armor piercing qualities, and high ap guns will have high damage and high armor piercing qualities, so the casual could be all like "ug, this gun has big number on it so it must be good" and he will be correct, instead of wrong, like before.

Or instead of being passive-agressive about "casuals" not understanding the brilliancy of your system, you could, maybe I don't know, explain the systems?

Grotesque above asked how Shields works. RK47 and myself had asked clarification on how the systems works 10 or 15 days ago. It has been near a month from release and zero information given on how systems works.

I think that is in a large part, why some people are confused and demanding changes.

Don't shoot the messenger, man! I just translated the thing. I explained about the shields to the best of my knowledge in this very post. Firearms, as far as I understand it, have damage, AP cost, accuracy limiter and chance to punch through armor (which comes from the bullet type), so that supposedly explains the inconsistencies in specking the weapons. So on the ground level, a burst from VSS costing 4 while burst from AR costs 6 looks retarded. But actually, it's supposedly balanced, because VSS has lower armor piercing qualities, and it's second and third bullets in the burst have lower chance to hit than the AR bullets. I argued that even if it's so, it's not noticeable. So now the guy is making an overhaul of the most criticized branches, begrudgingly. Now that overhaul will probably have actual formulae which I will copypaste to those who want them. It doesn't have those now, that's why I couldn't answer your question before if that was you on the Steam forum.

How odd, I took up the scrapyard mission, did the whole 'all out assault' option (it's the fastest and most profitable) and the quest giver told me there are still mutants around the scrapyard to kill.

Spoiler

Hah, picked the same dialog option, got the same outcome. Now I cannot get that damn chainsaw. I'm not under influence of a mushroom, so I don't think there is a problem (although I did that quest that requires you to eat a mushroom earlier). Atomboy can you look into it, now I cannot even use chainsaw for my melee build.

Try it now. Can you get it now? The 1.0.7.1 was a fix to this situation.

And now, some insight into the next patch, as written by the balance guy and translated by me:

The idea is to make Combat System v2.0.
1. More variety in combat: enemy tiers that will intermix in combat. You only met one level enemies before. Now encounters will have mixed tiers - for example 1lvl cultists may be joined by a 5lvl gunner, or, a 10lvl gunner squad may partially consist of naked peasants. Works both to make game easier and harder, depending on the kind of mixture you will stumble upon.
2. Casual-proofing pistols, SMGs and some ARs. All weapons were perfectly balanced before, but to see it you had to look at bullet properties. Since this is too hard for the casuals, we will be making it so low ap guns will have low damage and low armor piercing qualities, and high ap guns will have high damage and high armor piercing qualities, so the casual could be all like "ug, this gun has big number on it so it must be good" and he will be correct, instead of wrong, like before.
3. Adding new melee and fist weapon friendly abilities to the now useless perks. Maybe a free running perk if it's not hard to create.
4. Respecking option written by one of the writers (it's gonna be me, Atomboy!)
5. Final solution to NPC behavior - some new scripts that will make them act more human, hopefully.

There you go!
I really hope this one is going to hit home for everybody that has a hard time with the weapons mentioned.
He asked for my feedback, so I sent him most of the codex suggestions. Any new ones are also welcome.

you can do many things to properly balance the weapons,you can decrease the ammo spawn rate for automatics/rifles decrease the chance of automatics/rifles spawning (after all enemy npcs dont use most of the best weapons up until very late game),so us casuals that cant understand the brilliant never-seen-before current balance that your amazing beta testing team has made have a chance to win the very hard fights you can solo with a rusty knife.

And now, some insight into the next patch, as written by the balance guy and translated by me:


2. Casual-proofing pistols, SMGs and some ARs. All weapons were perfectly balanced before, but to see it you had to look at bullet properties. Since this is too hard for the casuals, we will be making it so low ap guns will have low damage and low armor piercing qualities, and high ap guns will have high damage and high armor piercing qualities, so the casual could be all like "ug, this gun has big number on it so it must be good" and he will be correct, instead of wrong, like before.

Or instead of being passive-agressive about "casuals" not understanding the brilliancy of your system, you could, maybe I don't know, explain the systems?

Grotesque above asked how Shields works. RK47 and myself had asked clarification on how the systems works 10 or 15 days ago. It has been near a month from release and zero information given on how systems works.

I think that is in a large part, why some people are confused and demanding changes.

THIS. Maybe its a translation thing, but I think you got the definions of a casual played mixed up with, lets say .... a "CRPG enthusiast" who likes to understand the underlying game system rules and limitations to make a informed decision while creating a character and playing your game.

For examples - check out UnderRail, Age of Decadence, Dungeon Rats for examples how its done right in a clean, systematic way. There is zero shame in emulating quality work, it would only improve your game.

Also, whats the 1.0.7.1 patch notes? Cant find em

Hope it will become possible in the future. I have no problem with sharing those, it's just that currently they only exist as a jumble of code. The 1.0.7.1. is basically the part of 1.0.7 that didn't post correctly with 1.0.7. it's the very same thing 1.0.7. is all about, but actually working. For example, some bugfixes we implemented did not activate and now they did.

 

[Atomboy]

I thought I even answered in the 2ch thread! That's another huge problem players get with out balance. Shooting weapons are not just AP and DAMAGE, they also have the percentage of going through armor. If you fire at a low tier rat or a naked man, 2ch would be completely correct - the tri-barrel one will be more efficient. However, attacking armored foes (and everyone is armored once you're in the big boy regions) you will deal much more damage with the 4-barrel, since the 4-barrel has the superior armor piercing qualities. That's how our balance guy explains it. That's why, for example, a shot from the Nagant costs 4, and has higher damage, but the Makarov costs 5 AP and has lower damage. The Makarov is still better, because it has higher armor piercing %. So when fighting rats or wasps that have no armor, you will deal more damage and have more DPS with the Nagant, but if it's a guy in armor, you'll have higher DPS with the Makarov, despite it having lower damage and higher AP values. That's pretty unintuitive though, I agree. I actually never knew this before I asked this for 2ch...

Except both 3 and 4 barrel rifles use same 12ga ammo, so unless there's an undocumented penetration stat for the guns themselves, there's pretty much no way of knowing that...

Also this is definitely not right:

Spoiler

Well, that's part of the reason to overhaul the penetration thing.

 

[Atomboy]

Fuck!
I made a save before leaving the bunker 371 cuz I suspected an ambush and ofc I died.
But when I reload previous two saves, my character is just lying on the ground, dead.

Any advice? Seems the game bugged up and I can't continue...

Never heard about that one before. So the game autosaved on your corpse? Weird. Can you email us the saves from %AppData%/../LocalLow/AtomTeam/Atom to support@atomrpg.com ? We'll look into it, and revive your char if that's the case.

 

[jungl]

this game would be fun to play real time if it was like fallout tactics but impossible lol. Combat system of fallout 1-2 is shit

 

[Cadmus]

Fuck!
I made a save before leaving the bunker 371 cuz I suspected an ambush and ofc I died.
But when I reload previous two saves, my character is just lying on the ground, dead.

Any advice? Seems the game bugged up and I can't continue...

Never heard about that one before. So the game autosaved on your corpse? Weird. Can you email us the saves from %AppData%/../LocalLow/AtomTeam/Atom to support@atomrpg.com ? We'll look into it, and revive your char if that's the case.

Well, not really.
The game autosaved somewhere in the bunker and then I made a save before the exit.
When I load any of them, my character is dead for no reason.

The game somehow overwrote my saves and made my character dead.
Gonna mail you now.

Btw it would be a great idea to make 5-10 quicksave slots, not just one. Helps with these bugs.

 

[Cadmus]

Anyway, I wanted to say I really like the game so far. Hope I can continue playing and you guys fix my saves cuz otherwise I delete it and wait for some definitive edition.

Its surprising to me that you managed to make the game look and play better than Wasteland 2 when we compare the studio sizes.

- what the fuck do I load into the crafted guns? "a round" ?? wtf, can you identify it somehow? I dont have anything called "a round" in my inventory as far as I can tell yet the guns get loaded by some white shitty powder I crafted
I have a zip-gun round, but having received a pipe gun BEFORE crafting a zip gun, I had no idea that the zip gun was a basic component to the crafted guns and therefore they all use zip-gun rounds. You should call the ammo in the weapon description a "zip gun round" as it appears in the inventory

- add an autobalance button to trading, searching for the roubles is horrible

 

[pm_675]

And now, some insight into the next patch, as written by the balance guy and translated by me:


2. Casual-proofing pistols, SMGs and some ARs. All weapons were perfectly balanced before, but to see it you had to look at bullet properties. Since this is too hard for the casuals, we will be making it so low ap guns will have low damage and low armor piercing qualities, and high ap guns will have high damage and high armor piercing qualities, so the casual could be all like "ug, this gun has big number on it so it must be good" and he will be correct, instead of wrong, like before.

Or instead of being passive-agressive about "casuals" not understanding the brilliancy of your system, you could, maybe I don't know, explain the systems?

Grotesque above asked how Shields works. RK47 and myself had asked clarification on how the systems works 10 or 15 days ago. It has been near a month from release and zero information given on how systems works.

I think that is in a large part, why some people are confused and demanding changes.

Don't shoot the messenger, man! I just translated the thing. I explained about the shields to the best of my knowledge in this very post. Firearms, as far as I understand it, have damage, AP cost, accuracy limiter and chance to punch through armor (which comes from the bullet type), so that supposedly explains the inconsistencies in specking the weapons. So on the ground level, a burst from VSS costing 4 while burst from AR costs 6 looks retarded. But actually, it's supposedly balanced, because VSS has lower armor piercing qualities, and it's second and third bullets in the burst have lower chance to hit than the AR bullets. I argued that even if it's so, it's not noticeable. So now the guy is making an overhaul of the most criticized branches, begrudgingly. Now that overhaul will probably have actual formulae which I will copypaste to those who want them. It doesn't have those now, that's why I couldn't answer your question before if that was you on the Steam forum.

Sorry if I sounded cranky. I knew that you didn't make the changes or the combat system, and in any case you are only a part of the team. I appreciate and thank you for your willingness to be here and answer the questions of codexers.

My problem was with the "casualisation" of the game. First of all neither you or apparently the combat tester are alright with it. Wich is a perfect reason no to do it . Especially if it's by listening the morons at Steam. They are lowest common denominator and you will never be able to satisfy them. It's a losing, neverending battle that leads to decline caving to retards.
Secondly, the real problems with combat don't lie in the balance between firearms but in the way you are informed about the systems. I started playing rpgs with Realms of Arkania, Dark, Suns, Eye of the Beholders and others with out manual and I played Fallout 1 and 2 so I can kinda, somewhat understand what the hell is going under the hood and things like DT, DR, blindess and the rest mean. I don't have time nowadays to became autistic about it nor try to decipher how combat works. And thats without the problems with perks being underwhelming and strange to get, melee being kinda crap (it needs perks that lower AP cost, give free movent and special attacks to begin working) an auto being op as fuck (I think making each shoot in the burst be less accurate and with less channce to crit can start to make it less op).

Oh, and I second adding autobalance to trading at least. But I repeat myself by saying the inventory screen is cancer

 

[RK47]

Traded toy gun to Mikoyan. Tried to pickpocket some chems. Failed. He pointed the toy gun at me and shot me.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

How important is attention? can you shoot shit with attention 1 if you invested skillpoints?

Attention is too important a stat for both dialogue, enviroment interaction and combat to leave it at 1. Dont do it m8