Review Another retarded...er, I mean, Armchair Empire likes KOTOR

[Rosh]

EvoG, just when I start to get some respect for you, here you go and do something quite foolish.

It's not that hard to expect some quality when people review a game. That pretty much relies upon that they've played it and that they know what they are trying to talk about.

Just like the FOS review at 411mania.com, the reviewer of the article in question failed to do their research, yet will gladly start verbally jerking BioWare off. Frankly, I'm sick of the kneepad service given to developers while the actual review is utter garbage or has laughable aspects to it.

So this site is against poor reviews. I'm all for that. We need less clueless idiots cluttering up the gaming media.

 

[Elwro]

Exit, I think you shouldn't *zing* your own posts. :D Leave it for others.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I am two people trapped in the body of one.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I've been lurking around here for a while, but I feel it's time to chime in about this whole KOTOR thing.

Ever since the PC release, the front page has been littered with incessant bashing of even remotely positive KOTOR reviews. It's one thing to laugh at PROFESHUHNAL reviewers making factual errors (To be honest, I'd love to be able to get an extra character in the party), but it's different story to use bonehead reviews as an excuse to bash the game itsel or ppl who enojyed it. Now, it only takes about a couple of hours of reading these forums to realize that almost everyone here hates Bioware and worships guys like Troika (Arcanum and ToEE were both great games though).

Well, Arcanum was okay, and I played it through to level 50 a few times, but got bored with it after that because there was nothing more to build towards. The combat wasn't good at all, and was often boring in both turn based and real time. It was much more linear than Fallout and even featured a lovely choke point in the game you could screw up that would break the game(not getting those glasses on the Isle of Despair). The character system was pitiful and advancing your character just wasn't that much of a thrill - you get one point that can go to any number of things.. Whoopeee!

Personally, I think Arcanum really only deserves credit for the dialogue and the setting.

With ToEE, I really didn't mind what most people complained about - the dialogue, some bugs in the game, and so forth. What I would have liked would be more dungeons and towns. Two towns and two dungeons just really didn't seem to cut it, even though one of those dungeons was friggin' huge.

Frankly, it seems to me that the one and the only reason people hate KOTOR so much is because, unlike The Neverending Fights, Bioware managed to make a game that is both financially and critically successful and called it an RPG. If it was labeled as "action-adventure" this site wouldn't give a flying fuck about it.

Overall, I think KotOR was an okay game, and I think the only reason most people say it's a great game is because it's got the BioWare logo on it.

But you know what? With enough time and motivation, anyone comb though games like Fallout, ToEE, Arcanum, or the good old PS:T, and type up a list of issues that will make those games sound like shit to people who never played them. The only reason people here aren't doing this is because everyone knows that those games have enough good things about them to almost completely outweigh the bad ones.

You'd be surprised. I've seen several really negative things written about all of those games. Finding a review of a recent BioWare game that's negative though, it's easier to find the Holy Grail. What's even more interesting is that you'll find reviews of a BioWare game on some sites which talk about how great something in that game is when they pan another for doing the same thing.

Another thing I've noticed is that many, many of the KotOR reviews have plugged in some BioWare marketting ploys. Most all of them mention how great a job BioWare did on porting it to the PC so it doesn't feel like a console port. Well.. bull. shit. But this was something BioWare's been hyping since the XBox one was released. Also, the bit about KotOR being turn based is a BioWare PR plant. It's also bullshit, but the majority of reviews of the game I've seen state this. Rather amazing.

 

[EvoG]

EvoG, just when I start to get some respect for you, here you go and do something quite foolish.

Oh please Rosh, you know what the heck I'm saying. I rip on everyone. I bash on all levels of stupid. What I was trying to say is that sometimes it gets old, and in this case, I felt it was reaching a bit to make the rip work. When you guys point out real cases of ignorance or neglect, more than not I find the bashing hilarious...but in THIS particular case, you guys were trying too hard just to get another KotoR bash in. The ONLY inaccurate things were calling combat TB ( yes VD, people by now should understand the concept of PausePlay so I dunno ), and he mention 4 people instead of 3 ( both keys are right next to eachother *shrugs* guilty of not checking his work? ). Personally I had no issue with inventory other than the lack of a more convenient sorting method, but it wasn't a big deal, as thats more opinion than inaccuracy. On top of that, he seemed like a competent writer so maybe I'm just given to letting people having the benefit of the doubt. He just wasn't a tard the way others have clearly excelled at it before.

You know what though...I don't REALLY care about all this(I do like to argue I guess)...but what probably set me off on the first place was how much that post just reminded me of any inane post on DaC and I feared that this place would fall further into this fanaticism of finding every possible way, no matter how tiny, to bash and rip on the games you hate, deflating the impact the good bashes make.

I thought it was rather petty is all, and not one of codex's better ones. :wink:

Cheers

 

[dagamer667]

I've been lurking around here for a while, but I feel it's time to chime in about this whole KOTOR thing.

Ever since the PC release, the front page has been littered with incessant bashing of even remotely positive KOTOR reviews. It's one thing to laugh at PROFESHUHNAL reviewers making factual errors (To be honest, I'd love to be able to get an extra character in the party), but it's different story to use bonehead reviews as an excuse to bash the game itsel or ppl who enojyed it. Now, it only takes about a couple of hours of reading these forums to realize that almost everyone here hates Bioware and worships guys like Troika (Arcanum and ToEE were both great games though).

Well, Arcanum was okay, and I played it through to level 50 a few times, but got bored with it after that because there was nothing more to build towards. The combat wasn't good at all, and was often boring in both turn based and real time. It was much more linear than Fallout and even featured a lovely choke point in the game you could screw up that would break the game(not getting those glasses on the Isle of Despair). The character system was pitiful and advancing your character just wasn't that much of a thrill - you get one point that can go to any number of things.. Whoopeee!

Personally, I think Arcanum really only deserves credit for the dialogue and the setting.

With ToEE, I really didn't mind what most people complained about - the dialogue, some bugs in the game, and so forth. What I would have liked would be more dungeons and towns. Two towns and two dungeons just really didn't seem to cut it, even though one of those dungeons was friggin' huge.

Frankly, it seems to me that the one and the only reason people hate KOTOR so much is because, unlike The Neverending Fights, Bioware managed to make a game that is both financially and critically successful and called it an RPG. If it was labeled as "action-adventure" this site wouldn't give a flying fuck about it.

Overall, I think KotOR was an okay game, and I think the only reason most people say it's a great game is because it's got the BioWare logo on it.

But you know what? With enough time and motivation, anyone comb though games like Fallout, ToEE, Arcanum, or the good old PS:T, and type up a list of issues that will make those games sound like shit to people who never played them. The only reason people here aren't doing this is because everyone knows that those games have enough good things about them to almost completely outweigh the bad ones.

You'd be surprised. I've seen several really negative things written about all of those games. Finding a review of a recent BioWare game that's negative though, it's easier to find the Holy Grail. What's even more interesting is that you'll find reviews of a BioWare game on some sites which talk about how great something in that game is when they pan another for doing the same thing.

Another thing I've noticed is that many, many of the KotOR reviews have plugged in some BioWare marketting ploys. Most all of them mention how great a job BioWare did on porting it to the PC so it doesn't feel like a console port. Well.. bull. shit. But this was something BioWare's been hyping since the XBox one was released. Also, the bit about KotOR being turn based is a BioWare PR plant. It's also bullshit, but the majority of reviews of the game I've seen state this. Rather amazing.

I'm sure that BW's marketing department had a lot to do with KOTOR's success and I agree that it would be less successful if the exact same game came out from a less known developer with less hype. But it would not be because it's an "okay game" instead of a "great game." If anything, it would get less praise because the reviews on most major sites seem to be directly proportionate with the advertising budget. There is no way in hell Halo PC could get a 9.0 from Gamespot if it wasn't for "Microsoft" printed on the box and the two years of hype from x-brick users. That also explains the amount of virtual ass kissing going on in far too many reviews.

 

[Rosh]

(Snip a whole lotta stupid.)

You know, it's funny that you say it's to KoTOR bash, when the news bit comments (or to use your vernacular, "bash") about the reviewer. Please tell me how that is in any way an affront to the game, unless you're going to count a reviewer as a living, breathing extension of the game itself. Apprently, this "Armchair Empire" has some direct connection to Interplay, else I really cannot fathom how the fuck you got this warped conclusion.

Nice try, but you're not blowing smoke up my ass that easily, and you should know it by now.

 

[EvoG]

*burp*

What the hell are you talking about, "blowing smoke up your ass"? Simple fact, you guys rip KotoR and NWN, non-stop. Don't try to tell me you will go out of your way to deride ANY reviewer of ANY game other than those two if they are indeed in error. No. You pretty much only find all KotoR/NWN reviews and focus on them if the reviewers screwed up the facts, and go to town on what fucktards they are for liking these games.

Either way, again, if you can manage to stay focused on what I've been trying to say...regarding codex...that I hoped you guys could get PAST KotoR and NWN for the love of fucking god and leave it be...because it just isn't funny anymore, and comes across fanatical and inane. Especially in this case, where the errors were so god damn minor. FINE, KotoR and NWN are NOT masterpieces and reviewers screw up their facts consistently. Keen eyes there folks. Take a bow. Next time make it funny instead of just name calling.

Again, I'm fucking baffled at your ability to not only be so aggressive without much provocation, but to work yourself up into a frothy-mouthed berserker-state. You need to cool your jets, as I haven't said anything worth raising your blood pressure.

We're on the same team here bub, sheesh.

Cheers

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Re: Another retarded...er, I mean, Armchair Empire likes KO

Well, at the risk of just waltzing into this fairly old discussion (?) and just write things which (probably) already has been said a dozen of times but which I couldn't care less about since it sickens me to death. Or could sickens me to death, anyway. I thought I'd just comment your (VDs) comments on this review.

Conclusion: typical gamer=moron who can't add two plus two and notice anything.

Well, aside from this share of boring elitism and arrogance for "typical gamers", I've decided that I have to agree with you here. Although, not with the elitism of "adding two plus two and notice nothing" or with the arrogance of having no respect to those who with all right don't know these things, but with the way you put the comment. In the case of Knights of the Old Republic, I bought the game, played it a dozens of time and eventually got bored at it for not giving me that real RPG-feeling. It was more a (the horror!) Final Fantasy-game than a Baldurs Gate- or a Neverwinter Nights-game which just didn't add up all right since KotOR were supposed to be using the rules for, uh, D&D (yeah, yeah, I'm not the brightest guy when it comes to these matters) and these rules were nowhere to be found or just completely hidden behind the simplification of the popular "add 1 point to dexterity"-event.

For the love of God, can somebody explain why people think that it's turn-based?

I can, and so can probably everyone. It isn't. The game plays in real time, but you can pause the game to give out orders and so on. Nothing else.

Oh, I see, that certainly explains a lot. Another review written without the added benefit of actually playing the game.

The best (see: "the funniest") reviews are those which the reviewer actually don't have a clue at what they're doing and just gathers bad information and writes something quick to get it over with. I'd say we take a moment to badmouth all these reviewers. No, wait - let's take two moments: "... and the best part of Knights of the Old Republic" is that you can choose to play as any of the races in the Star Wars-universe!" Uh, no you can't. This reviewer probably mixed up KotOR with Star Wars Galaxies. The quote was taken from an anonymous magazine here in Sweden. I'll tell you, it's stuff like that which gets us swedes a bad reputation.

Anyway, that's what I wanted to write. Feel free to ignore, reply or just hitch my e-mail to someone who's intentions are nothing but pure evil. Please don't.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Locue, you are my new best friend :D

Seriously though, that's the point that I made, and I believe that there are certain standards that should be met, and while it's sad that we can't expect a review to be objective and unbiased, it's totally unacceptable when a review is inaccurate. I don't think that many people here would rely on reviews written by so-called gaming journalists, and what we discussed here is the main reason.

Btw, welcome

 

[Nightjed]

I think EvoG is forgetting the fact that ppl buy games based on those reviews, thats why badly written clueless reviews from ppl that havent played the game for more than 10 minutes cause hate and flames.

Check out lionheart reviews, the first batch of reviews were all "wooo barcelona is sooooo goood" you can easly tell how many reviewers didnt play after the first half, imagine buying that game just to find out everyone lied about it ?

when i want info about a game i always read the reviews with the worst rating because i dont really care to hear how GOTY it is, i care about whats bad about it, what i might not like, and at least ive found that on codex even tho they sometimes take it a step too far :D

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I still read reviews, but I don't normally base any sort of purchase off of them nowadays. I ask friends who have played the game or hit some of the forums I know are decent for honest opinions and see what they have to say. When I do a review of a game, I play it through all the way. I learned a lesson with KOTOR though and realize that any game that gives you 'multiple' paths should be played through more than once before giving a fair review.

 

[Nightjed]

*possible kotor spoiler*

you mean like ... reloading a 30 mins old savegame and telling bastila youll spank her instead of telling her to come back to the light ? :D

edit : and btw i dunno if i should trust my friends like that, some of em think halo is good ... urgh

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I do trust my friends simply because anything they have ever recommended, I found I enjoyed as well. Be it an FPS or CRPG or whatever. Problem is, they tend to come to me about a game more than I come to them.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You pretty much only find all KotoR/NWN reviews and focus on them if the reviewers screwed up the facts, and go to town on what fucktards they are for liking these games.

Like I said many times before, nobody gives a damn if a reviewer likes a game, but we expect them to like games for what they are, not for some made up shit that defies the whole idea of a review.

Don't try to tell me you will go out of your way to deride ANY reviewer of ANY game other than those two if they are indeed in error

Check this out http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3117. One out of many examples.

...because it just isn't funny anymore, and comes across fanatical and inane. Especially in this case, where the errors were so god damn minor.

Minor? A hypothetical situation: a person who likes TB combat reads several reviews, including the one in question, and learns that KOTOR is TB, runs to the store, buys it, and ...surprise, surprise ! It's RT (with teh pause)!

FINE, KotoR and NWN are NOT masterpieces and reviewers screw up their facts consistently. Keen eyes there folks. Take a bow. Next time make it funny instead of just name calling.

It stops being funny after tthe first 20 idiotic reviews claiming things that are not there. That's retarded. Fuck political correctness! If people were complaining about quality of the review maybe, just maybe reviewers and editors would think next time before writing something. KOTOR is a decent game overall, it has plenty of strength and a good appeal, there is no need to lie on top of that to make people like it.

We're on the same team here bub, sheesh.

It looks like you are on the Gromnir's team now, bub
Gromnir: from now on we just refer to this thread, where a developer is saying pretty much same stuff as Gromnir, though he were trying to be polite until recently.

 

[Astromarine]

that's true. I think what's bothering EvoG, though, and has been bothering me just a tad, is that this is the kind of stuff that defines a community. Just to let you know what I mean, I was brought to this site by a friend who is a major RPG fan. He one day showed me a site where I could actually read about stuff not on the mainstream, indie projects, eastern-europe stuff, etc. He was the guy who introduced me to Exile by the way.

Problem was, he kinda liked Dungeon Siege, for some reason, and got into a huge row here in the codex, making him leave and start thinking of you as a whole as idiots. I happen to be on everyone else's side here, and it didn't help that in his discussion he failed to actually defend his DS love to our satisfaction, but that's the problem right there: people here seem to divide the world into two camps, the ones who like good RPGs and the ones who like the bad. It has to cross your minds sometimes that people can like both, for whatever reason. That guy I mentioned played and liked Dungeon Siege, NWN, all Ultimas, all Wizardries, all Fallouts, etc. He opens the main Codex page, and sees 20 news stories likening him to an amoeba, he's likely to be pissed off, and there goes another round of the Codex dance.

After a while, all we see here are Codex dances. Is that where you want to take the site? In my mind, the Codex is not a humor site, written at the expense of mainstream RPG fans. It is an alternative RPG site, where I can read stuff about the games coming out that are REALLY interesting. Games that are not interesting to the readership of the Codex SHOULD BE ONLY MINIMALLY COVERED. Fuck, I can ask any Codexer around on a given day "Which do you prefer, Bioware games or Spiderweb?" and I'd get close to 100% answers for Vogel, right? Now please check the database and find out for me the ratio of posts relating to games from these two companies in the last six months.

I know that content is sparse, and I'll try to help. I'll head to the games section, and comment a bit tonight. I am available to write any piece the Codex wants me to, from reviews to, well, anything else really. But there's stuff around to be reviewed or otherwise covered. There is no need to go so low as to make a news post about another site's news post. THAT is the threshold people complaining here wish you hadn't crossed: KOTOR, as you yourself pointed, wasn't even the subject of your news post, the *review* was. For myself, as much fun as I derive from "look at him, he's TEH STOOPID" threads (hell, I even made one myself once), I wish you'd keep them in the forums where they belong, instead of on the news page. Keep that for stuff that's actually news.

Thanks for reading. The style is rushed, I'm at work.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Locue, you are my new best friend :D

Seriously though, that's the point that I made, and I believe that there are certain standards that should be met, and while it's sad that we can't expect a review to be objective and unbiased, it's totally unacceptable when a review is inaccurate. I don't think that many people here would rely on reviews written by so-called gaming journalists, and what we discussed here is the main reason.

Btw, welcome

Thank you for the welcoming, and for being your new best friend.

Like you say; there are standards that should be met when it comes to writing reviews. This goes for pretty much everything, and not just games.

 

[Vault Dweller]

that's true. I think what's bothering EvoG, though, and has been bothering me just a tad, is that this is the kind of stuff that defines a community. Just to let you know what I mean, I was brought to this site by a friend who is a major RPG fan <snip> Problem was, he kinda liked Dungeon Siege, for some reason, and got into a huge row here in the codex, making him leave and start thinking of you as a whole as idiots. I happen to be on everyone else's side here, and it didn't help that in his discussion he failed to actually defend his DS love to our satisfaction...

I get what you are saying, and I thought a lot about what EvoG said, and what Skorpio was saying while he was here, but I just can't agree, can't feel what they feel, etc. This site isn't about love, understanding, and converting idiots into thinking people. This site, at least for me, is a gentlemen's club sorta. You are either a gentleman or you are not. If you are not, you have no business being here, simple and blunt as that. Contrary to popular opinion, you can like whatever the hell you want as long as you can defend your position, even if you fail, you can move on and focus on something else, like many people who got flamed at first have done.

but that's the problem right there: people here seem to divide the world into two camps, the ones who like good RPGs and the ones who like the bad. It has to cross your minds sometimes that people can like both, for whatever reason. That guy I mentioned played and liked Dungeon Siege, NWN, all Ultimas, all Wizardries, all Fallouts, etc. He opens the main Codex page, and sees 20 news stories likening him to an amoeba, he's likely to be pissed off, and there goes another round of the Codex dance.

I disagree. You can like both as long as you realize what exactly you like. I like BG2, of course it sucked as an RPG, but it was a great adventure game. As long as people aren't trying to convince me that it's the greatest RPG of all time, I have no problems with them. Same goes for KOTOR. Volourn, for example, likes Bio games, and he's doing fine here, in fact, he's the one who flames and trolls the most. Of course we disagree a lot, but that what makes a good discussion fun. We discussed KOTOR's issues with him a lot, sometimes he sees my point, sometimes he pretends that he doesn't , but he knows what we are talking about and he doesn't take personal offense every times he sees a news post trashing KOTOR.

It is an alternative RPG site, where I can read stuff about the games coming out that are REALLY interesting. Games that are not interesting to the readership of the Codex SHOULD BE ONLY MINIMALLY COVERED.

Name 5 RPGs that you are looking forward to in 2004. It's not that many. I played KOTOR mainly because I didn't have anything else to play. I would have bought HotU but I strongly dislike uber classes, and I returned NWN. I'm sure that many people are playing all these lesser RPGs for the same reason. SInce people play them, we cover them. The Codex is a news site, so discussing news items and reviewers opinion is a part of the deal. It seems to many that we pick only KOTOR reviews and trash the hell out of them, but actually the ratio of KOTOR reviews vs ToEE reviews is 5 or 10 to 1, for obvious reasons: everybody wants to review KOTOR, even those who didn't play it yet .

I do realize though that some people are turned off by what they see as negativity and what I'd like to call "low tolerance for stupidity". Well, in that case..no, it's not "fuck you", although that would be my second choice ... these people can start new in-depth discussions. Mind blowing concept, eh?

There is no need to go so low as to make a news post about another site's news post.

I don't see anything wrong with covering reviews. In an ideal word, the reviews would be well written discussing games strength and weaknesses, and we'd discuss that as well, giving our readers every opinion that exists on a given game. Well, it aint an ideal world, but it's still a task worth doing.

THAT is the threshold people complaining here wish you hadn't crossed: KOTOR, as you yourself pointed, wasn't even the subject of your news post, the *review* was. For myself, as much fun as I derive from "look at him, he's TEH STOOPID" threads (hell, I even made one myself once), I wish you'd keep them in the forums where they belong, instead of on the news page. Keep that for stuff that's actually news.

Why? There are many reviewers who came to us defending their positions, actually I'm surprised that the armchair guys didn't show up, but anyway, a lot of evil in the gaming industry starts with media coverage. They are the ones who create hype and drive people into frenzy, who knows, if they start being more objective, maybe the overall quality of games would increase.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

A gentleman is "a man whose conduct conforms to a high standard of propriety or correct behavior". There's something dreafully wrong here if you think this is a gentlemen's club

And Vol, the one who flames and trolls the most? :shock:

Ok, i guess somehow i am another victim of the Twilight Zone or something

 

[EvoG]

that's true. I think what's bothering EvoG, though, and has been bothering me just a tad, is that this is the kind of stuff that defines a community. Just to let you know what I mean, I was brought to this site by a friend who is a major RPG fan. He one day showed me a site where I could actually read about stuff not on the mainstream, indie projects, eastern-europe stuff, etc. He was the guy who introduced me to Exile by the way.

Problem was, he kinda liked Dungeon Siege, for some reason, and got into a huge row here in the codex, making him leave and start thinking of you as a whole as idiots. I happen to be on everyone else's side here, and it didn't help that in his discussion he failed to actually defend his DS love to our satisfaction, but that's the problem right there: people here seem to divide the world into two camps, the ones who like good RPGs and the ones who like the bad. It has to cross your minds sometimes that people can like both, for whatever reason. That guy I mentioned played and liked Dungeon Siege, NWN, all Ultimas, all Wizardries, all Fallouts, etc. He opens the main Codex page, and sees 20 news stories likening him to an amoeba, he's likely to be pissed off, and there goes another round of the Codex dance.

After a while, all we see here are Codex dances. Is that where you want to take the site? In my mind, the Codex is not a humor site, written at the expense of mainstream RPG fans. It is an alternative RPG site, where I can read stuff about the games coming out that are REALLY interesting. Games that are not interesting to the readership of the Codex SHOULD BE ONLY MINIMALLY COVERED. Fuck, I can ask any Codexer around on a given day "Which do you prefer, Bioware games or Spiderweb?" and I'd get close to 100% answers for Vogel, right? Now please check the database and find out for me the ratio of posts relating to games from these two companies in the last six months.

I know that content is sparse, and I'll try to help. I'll head to the games section, and comment a bit tonight. I am available to write any piece the Codex wants me to, from reviews to, well, anything else really. But there's stuff around to be reviewed or otherwise covered. There is no need to go so low as to make a news post about another site's news post. THAT is the threshold people complaining here wish you hadn't crossed: KOTOR, as you yourself pointed, wasn't even the subject of your news post, the *review* was. For myself, as much fun as I derive from "look at him, he's TEH STOOPID" threads (hell, I even made one myself once), I wish you'd keep them in the forums where they belong, instead of on the news page. Keep that for stuff that's actually news.

Thanks for reading. The style is rushed, I'm at work.

This post sums it up for me, and I appreciate the time spent writing it Astro.

You see, VD, Rosh, I wasn't attacking you guys, nor defending idiot reviewers as much as I was hoping that I wouldn't see Codex sink to the levels of DaC, which I tolerated for a year and a half. I LIKE seeing intelligent conversation. I like positive people interested and passionate about what they love. The negativity is exhausting, old and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm a very positive person, and I enjoy a good debate. I did NOT need even post in this topic and could have let it go, but stupid me, I felt that my concerns would be open to receptive ears. My case has been about keeping Codex from the fringes of jaded, negative gamers miserable that the world seems to inch further away from their ideal of perfect rpg, where we sit and sulk at the 'new world order' while pining over days of yore. I AGREE, and I've even become a bit more jaded with games....but hell there are still great games out there, and focusing daily on negativity is a real turn-off.

This isn't 'smoke blowing' or being like some 'gromnirnionoin'(or whatever) guy...this is about a site I enjoy, becoming something I enjoy less, or at the very least, a site I'll visit less frequently.

Saint turned me on to this place and I was thrilled initially, but damn if it isn't starting to feel like DaC from time to time. At least if you have to write news threads like this, make them funny, so there's some substance. Merely going "wrong, dumbass" after every mistake isn't funny, but thats just me.

There are still great posters here and great threads so maybe my reaction was knee-jerk(though still a valid concern of mine).

We can continure this or just let it go, both which is fine by me, but I meant no personal attack, and I'm not angry at any one person...no malice no hate no derision no nothing. This really was about the site.

Cheers

 

[mr. lamat]

at these new fangled "gentleman's clubs" you get to see titties, or watch a grrl shoots pingpongs balls out of her cunny.

good times!

 

[Vault Dweller]

A gentleman is "a man whose conduct conforms to a high standard of propriety or correct behavior". There's something dreafully wrong here if you think this is a gentlemen's club

In comparison, my dear Role-Player, in comparison. I'm sure that you would agree that a typical codexer conforms to higher standards of propriety and behavior then thousands of clueless morons roaming the virtual streets and mumbling nonsense.

And Vol, the one who flames and trolls the most? :shock:

Do you recall when a mob wanted to lynch him for derailing every other thread? Good times, good times, I miss that Volourn is quieter now but I suspect that it's the proverbial quiet before then storm

 

[Vault Dweller]

I did NOT need even post in this topic and could have let it go, but stupid me, I felt that my concerns would be open to receptive ears. My case has been about keeping Codex from the fringes of jaded, negative gamers miserable that the world seems to inch further away from their ideal of perfect rpg, where we sit and sulk at the 'new world order' while pining over days of yore.

Like I said earlier, I heard your concern, and I spent a lot of time considering it, but I didn't agree in the end. It's not about Bio, KOTOR, or anything else, it's about the stupidity that's spreading like a virus. There is nothing funny about it to make jokes. Look at it that way, you are working on a game that may flop simply because reviewers wouldn't bother playing it and instead would make something up. Would you still feel that it's not a big deal then?

We can continure this or just let it go, both which is fine by me, but I meant no personal attack, and I'm not angry at any one person...no malice no hate no derision no nothing. This really was about the site.

I didn't think it was personal, and I apprecaite your opinion.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

In comparison, my dear Role-Player, in comparison. I'm sure that you would agree that a typical codexer conforms to higher standards of propriety and behavior then thousands of clueless morons roaming the virtual streets and mumbling nonsense.

Notice the difference between "behaviour" and "correct behaviour". At best we'd hang around, speaking about what interests us, about what we believe to be quality games, and wouldn't just act like this. Dwelling on what we dislike isn't healthy or productive (i should know). One thing is to casually point out someone's ignorance and their statements regarding what we dislike; the other is to actively seek out reviews to mock the reviewers and bash the games. Somehow, i don't remember it being this bad when i first got here (could just be my fleeting memory, though, so don't hold me to that).

Also note the difference between having your standards set higher than others, and constantly mocking those who would be below you. One doesn't justify the other. A gentleman, as you put it, would project his high moral values and emphasize their reasons and virtues, not enforce them or egotistically judge others because they are of different positions, or do not share similar, or equal, mindsets. Confront your enemies, don't try to bring them down from a distance. This site is about intelligent discussion, not about criticizing others because they don't share your brand of intelligence (not that doing it isn't fun, but it should be treated like a sport, not a way of life).

In retrospect, i wonder how my attitude would be if i had decided to join the staff.

Do you recall when a mob wanted to lynch him for derailing every other thread? Good times, good times, I miss that Volourn is quieter now but I suspect that it's the proverbial quiet before then storm

Being opinionated and more vocal hardly qualifies as flaming. He did troll somewhat. But that's like blaming a bear for attacking you after you shot him




PS: Also, you need to look like this to be a gentleman:

 

[Astromarine]

I understand what you're saying, VD, but about the scouring of the Net looking for good RPGs, I thought that was *your* job as a news site, and my job to be awed at the depth of your knowledge

Seriously, yours is a valid attitude and opinion, of course. Still, I can't help thinking sometimes that the Codex suffers a bit from split personality. This is the site that introduced me to EVN, Geneforge, ToEE, PtD, etc, and also where I learned to pay a bit more attention to the faults of media-hyped games. BUT, it was also the place of endless discussions about racism, pissing contests between adolescents (v. bladen and his boyfriend), page upon page of bile when the point had been hammered into our skulls already. I mean, you posted a review of SoU one week ago! The major publications reviewing a game completely outside reality, sure, I'd like to know about. But you scour the net looking for whatever kiddie that has a site made in Frontpage and who wants to get into Da INDUZZTRI WIF DA BIG PAYOLA! I mean, is it news that those guys overhype? Hell, to get recognition and viewership they'll lick the ass clean from whoever in the industry has still a little shit hanging from their asshairs.It just gets tiring, and I feel like it reduces the valuable (INvaluable) service this site has.

Understand: I, like I would assume a lot of other people here, came to the site completely fresh from any history with other sites. It is noticeable that this site was created, I'd guess, as a kind of reaction to the years of history the founders of the site have with Internotpay, Bioware, other forums, other sites, whatever. The people that came here following that, I can perfectly see being the ones that like to dig on other reporters and the shitty games they cover. I just want you to consider that since the site opened, it became available to a lot of OTHER people, who have not and care not to have this history of yours. I managed to take the time and read a lot of the discussions between Codex members and their old "enemies", but for each one like me, (who managed to slog through it, come out the other side with an understanding of where you came from, and willing to keep reading what you write, taking care to discount the more "extreme" attitudes) how many left because they just confused you all with whiny angst-ridden 13 year-olds? I mean, maybe the whole staff has this view that they want to continue to be bold, ugly, and in people's faces, and if they have to keep their readership to a minimum because of it, great. If it does, if that's the idea, then please tell me and I'll shut up. I'll hang in here, too. Just, in that case, don't bother programming neat stuff like the game database. The people who are willing to become regulars already know those games, so who are you making it *for*?

Love the place, love the people, but some stuff deserves thinking about, and taking hard decisions on. I guess this is one of those things.

Peace