Decline And the Codex Bests RPGs 2022 Poll?????

[Peachcurl]

first we need to review codex random number generator

deterministic system > rng

It's pseudo random number generation. Which means it's really deterministic.

 

[Kruno]

Is already January 19 and no poll has been made for the best RPG in 2022.

What RPG

There is no consensus, and so I have to ask, where is the next iteration of the "What is an RPG?" thread?

Doom is technically an RPG given what some people's definition of what an RPG is.

Why is there a definition for what a roguelike is, but nothing for RPGs?

A roguelike is a sub genre of an RPG, so it makes sense to include the entire roguelike genre under the banner of what an RPG is, but how do we reconcile all the other games counting as RPGs into a cumulative definition?

Even if you divorce the definition of an RPG from the mediums they are played on, what would a major technological leap do for RPGs? Will the definition change again?

What about card collecting games? They have elements from other RPGs within them, are they now RPGs? What elements separates each CCG from each other and how much separation changes it from an RPG into a purely CCG genre?

There is no definition for an RPG, and any definition anyone has come up with is heavily flawed. I think there needs to be a board of directors in the world that is paid to come up with a global definition of what an RPG is.

RPGs came from war sims that naval recruits came up with, but would they be considered RPGs nowadays? They would be considered "sims" instead, at least on the Steam product pages.

Stories don't make an RPG either, as early games classified as RPGs had little to no story.

So a good start at defining an RPG would be to look at how the definition changes over time and according to medium.

What about mechanics of games classified ass RPGs? These days games have vastly simplified mechanics compared to the checks and rolls AD&D 2e had, but so have RPGs that came out early because they were limited to the hardware they ran on. There was a review of an ancient PC that had a transparent piece of plastic placed on the screen and games were played on that, so if an RPG designed to be played on an ancient PC like that were to come out on Steam would people agree that it is an RPG? You can't simply say the product you are releasing is an RPG just because you said so, this isn't a choose your own gender adventure!

The next question is, how much or how little complexity defines an RPG? If all you had was one number, say HP, on the screen and a linear progression, would that count as an RPG? It could have if it were released in 1972, but not if it were released today. Today it would be classed as an indie "action adventure" game.

So we have come to at least an idea of how we can start to classify as an RPG:
* Time it was released
* Genre it was released under at that time
* Hardware limitations
* Complexity of mechanics, such as progression systems

What is an RPG?

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/chat/message/1180258/view
An RPG or Role Playing Game is a choice simulator where chosen characters are simulated to choose

So Doom is an RPG? I can choose to enter a secret level, or spend time chasing secrets, which is useful on Nightmare difficulty.

 

[puur prutswerk]

Is already January 19 and no poll has been made for the best RPG in 2022.

What RPG

There is no consensus, and so I have to ask, where is the next iteration of the "What is an RPG?" thread?

Doom is technically an RPG given what some people's definition of what an RPG is.

Why is there a definition for what a roguelike is, but nothing for RPGs?

A roguelike is a sub genre of an RPG, so it makes sense to include the entire roguelike genre under the banner of what an RPG is, but how do we reconcile all the other games counting as RPGs into a cumulative definition?

Even if you divorce the definition of an RPG from the mediums they are played on, what would a major technological leap do for RPGs? Will the definition change again?

What about card collecting games? They have elements from other RPGs within them, are they now RPGs? What elements separates each CCG from each other and how much separation changes it from an RPG into a purely CCG genre?

There is no definition for an RPG, and any definition anyone has come up with is heavily flawed. I think there needs to be a board of directors in the world that is paid to come up with a global definition of what an RPG is.

RPGs came from war sims that naval recruits came up with, but would they be considered RPGs nowadays? They would be considered "sims" instead, at least on the Steam product pages.

Stories don't make an RPG either, as early games classified as RPGs had little to no story.

So a good start at defining an RPG would be to look at how the definition changes over time and according to medium.

What about mechanics of games classified ass RPGs? These days games have vastly simplified mechanics compared to the checks and rolls AD&D 2e had, but so have RPGs that came out early because they were limited to the hardware they ran on. There was a review of an ancient PC that had a transparent piece of plastic placed on the screen and games were played on that, so if an RPG designed to be played on an ancient PC like that were to come out on Steam would people agree that it is an RPG? You can't simply say the product you are releasing is an RPG just because you said so, this isn't a choose your own gender adventure!

The next question is, how much or how little complexity defines an RPG? If all you had was one number, say HP, on the screen and a linear progression, would that count as an RPG? It could have if it were released in 1972, but not if it were released today. Today it would be classed as an indie "action adventure" game.

So we have come to at least an idea of how we can start to classify as an RPG:
* Time it was released
* Genre it was released under at that time
* Hardware limitations
* Complexity of mechanics, such as progression systems

What is an RPG?

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/chat/message/1180258/view
An RPG or Role Playing Game is a choice simulator where chosen characters are simulated to choose

So Doom is an RPG? I can choose to enter a secret level, or spend time chasing secrets, which is useful on Nightmare difficulty.

A bad one, it provides practically only cheese instead of choice.

Role Playing Games are a spectrum ok.

 

[Kruno]

Role Playing Games are a spectrum ok.

what spectrum? ZX Spectrum?
Choice is a matter of human decision. A lot of JRPGs give you almost no choice but to follow a straight path until the end, so are they RPGs?

 

[puur prutswerk]

Role Playing Games are a spectrum ok.

what spectrum? ZX Spectrum?
Choice is a matter of human decision. A lot of JRPGs give you almost no choice but to follow a straight path until the end, so are they RPGs?

If characters are simulated to choose then yes under this definition they are RPGs. Okay it's not a good definition, fuck you.

 

[Kruno]

Okay it's not a good definition

Therein lies the issue. What is an RPG?

Let us take an existing definition: https://www.techopedia.com/definition/27052/role-playing-game-rpg

What Does Role-Playing Game (RPG) Mean?

A role-playing game (RPG) is a genre of video game where the gamer controls a fictional character (or characters) that undertakes a quest in an imaginary world.

Defining RPGs is very challenging due to the range of hybrid genres that have RPG elements.

Traditional role-playing video games shared five basic elements:

1. The ability to improve your character over the course of the game by increasing his statistics or levels.

2. A menu-based combat system with several choices of skills, spells, and active powers as well as an active inventory system with wearable equipment such as armors and weapons.

3. A central quest that runs throughout the game as a storyline and additional (and usually optional) side quests.

4. The ability to interact with elements of the environment or storyline through additional abilities (e.g. lockpicking, disarming traps, communication skills, etc.)

5. The existence of certain character classes that define the characteristics, skills, abilities, and spells of a character (e.g. wizard, thief, warrior, etc.)

Modern and hybrid RPGs do not necessarily have all of these elements, but usually feature one or two in combination with elements from another genre.

This definition places Hexen: Beyond Heretic as an RPG, where it is never classified as an RPG. Borrowing one or two elements from this list doesn't make an RPG. Adventure games (Point and click) can tick off more points on this list, so is King's Quest an RPG?

This definition of RPG is shallow and encompasses almost every video game ever made.

 

[felipepepe]

The game_year column specifies the instance of Codex GOTY which is being held, while game_category specifies the actual release year of that game. This allows for missed GOTY years to be voted on in a single poll.

This was done because that poll was created for the "Age of Incline" poll, when we voted on the best games from 2012-2016.

Anyway, I suggest we use similar rules to before, only accounts that are at least 1 month old can vote - so no 2023 accounts, just to make it easier. I'm not a fan of any filter on post count, since we have a lot of lurkers.

Also, we need a game list. Abu Antar does a great job of tracking them, here's his list with a few things he missed. To keep the number reasonable, I removed games with less than 50 reviews:

Game List

GAME OF THE YEAR

1428: Shadows over Silesia

ANNO: Mutationem

Arcanium: Rise of Akhan

Asterigos: Curse of the Stars

ASTLIBRA Revision

Atelier Sophie 2: The Alchemist of the Mysterious Dream

Babylon's Fall

Batora: Lost Haven

Betrayal at Club Low

Black Geyser: Couriers of Darkness

BLACKTAIL

Bloody Spell

Brigandine The Legend of Runersia

Chained Echoes

Circus Electrique

Citizen Sleeper

Coromon

Crtrl Alt Ego

Crystal Project

Decision: Red Daze

Devil Spire

Digimon Survive

Digitizer

Dolmen

Dungeons of Edera

Dying Light 2

Eiyuden Chronicle: Rising

Elden Ring

ELEX II

Empire of Ember

Expeditions: Rome

Fabled Lands

Fear & Hunger 2: Termina

Gedonia

Gordian Quest

Grim Quest - Old School RPG

Hard West 2

HARVESTELLA

Hellslave

Hero's Hour

Heroine Anthem Zero 2 : Scalescars Oath

Home Behind 2

Imprisoned Hyperion

Infernax

Jack Move

Jettatura

Keplerth

Knights of the Chalice 2: Augury of Chaos

Kynseed

Loot River

Lost Epic

Made in Abyss: Binary Star Falling into Darkness

Mary Skelter 2

METAL MAX Xeno Reborn

MONARK

Monochrome Mobius: Rights and Wrongs Forgotten

Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord

Nobody Saves the World

Obsidian Prince

Out There: Oceans of Time

Path Of Wuxia

Potato Flowers in Full Bloom

Potion Permit

Queen's Wish 2: The Tormentor

Realms of Magic

Rebellion: A Rogue Souls Like

Ringlorn Saga

Rise of the Third Power

Roadwarden

Rogue Legacy 2

RPG Time: The Legend of Wright

Salt And Sacrifice

Samurai Bringer

Sea Horizon

Shadows Over Loathing

Sir Whoopass - Action RPG

Sonucido: The Mage - A Dungeon Crawler by Daniel da Silva

Soul Hackers 2

Soulash

Souldiers

Source of Madness

SpellMaster: The Saga

Star Ocean The Divine Force

Star Valor

Steelrising

Stranger of Paradise: Final Fantasy Origin

Sunday Gold

The Caligula Effect 2

The Last Oricru

The Sargosian Abyss

The Tarnishing of Juxtia

The Waylanders

There Is No Light

This Way Madness Lies

Thymesia

Tinyfolks

Unexplored 2: The Wayfarer's Legacy

Valkyrie Elysium

VARIOUS DAYLIFE

Vestaria Saga Gaiden: The Sacred Sword of Silvanister

Voice of Cards: The Beasts of Burden

Voice of Cards: The Forsaken Maiden

Warm Snow

Warsim: The Realm of Aslona

Watcher Chronicles

Weird West

Wigmund

XEL

Young Souls

Zorbus

TACTICAL RPGS

Absolute Tactics: Daughters of Mercy

King Arthur: Knight's Tale

Lost Eidolons

Marvel's Midnight Suns

Mech Armada

Prime of Flames

Reverie Knights Tactics

Stones Keeper

Symphony of War: The Nephilim Saga

Tactical Combat Department

Telepath Tactics Liberated

The DioField Chronicle

The Dragoness: Command of the Flame

The Hand of Merlin

The Valiant

TRIANGLE STRATEGY

Tyrant's Blessing

Vanaris Tactics

Vestaria Saga II: The Sacred Sword of Silvanister

Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate - Daemonhunters

Yaengard

PORTS/REMAKES/REMASTERS

Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II

Chrono Cross: The Radical Dreamers Edition

CRISIS CORE –FINAL FANTASY VII– REUNION

Demeo

DEMON GAZE EXTRA

Disgaea 6 Complete

Final Fantasy VI

FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE INTERGRADE

Makai Kingdom: Reclaimed and Rebound

NEO: The World Ends with You

Neptunia x SENRAN KAGURA: Ninja Wars

Persona 5 Royal

Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song - Remastered

Rune Factory 5

Tactics Ogre: Reborn

The Legend of Heroes: Trails from Zero

Tower of Fantasy

VenusBlood HOLLOW International

 

[Abu Antar]

^I would add Path of Wuxia, despite no official English translation.

You can safely remove Batora. It was terrible.

Do you want a list of games made by codexers?

 

[felipepepe]

Do you want a list of games made by codexers?

Yes, please do

 

[Abu Antar]

felipepepe
Games developed by codexer, and released in 2022. You'll be the judge if they are worthy to list or not. I don't know if I missed some.

Imprisoned Hyperion
Jettatura
Ringlorn Saga
The Sargosian Abyss
Sonucido: The Mage - A Dungeon Crawler by Daniel da Silva
Zorbus

 

[felipepepe]

felipepepe
Games developed by codexer, and released in 2022. You'll be the judge if they are worthy to list or not. I don't know if I missed some.

Imprisoned Hyperion
Jettatura
Ringlorn Saga
The Sargosian Abyss
Sonucido: The Mage - A Dungeon Crawler by Daniel da Silva
Zorbus

Thanks! It's only a few, so I'll add all of them.

Updated the list and fixed the broken links. To all the people interested in this, please check the list and say if anything is missing, it won't be as simple as before to add missing games mid-poll.

 

[Peachcurl]

Some potential additions:
- Babylons Fall
- Demeo (unsure about release date)
- Empire of Ember
- Hero's Hour
- NEO: The World Ends with You
- Shadows over Silesia
- XEL

For the remake list:
- Final Fantasy VII Remake

Tacticals:
- The Dragoness
- The Valiant
- Tinyfolks

 

[DarkUnderlord]

The goty_votes table appears to exist (the script would fail otherwise), but I can't access it or even display its schema. No matter, it won't negatively affect the functioning of the poll.

What do you mean you can't access it? You should be able to see it in phpmyadmin.

 

[Twiglard]

The goty_votes table appears to exist (the script would fail otherwise), but I can't access it or even display its schema. No matter, it won't negatively affect the functioning of the poll.

What do you mean you can't access it? You should be able to see it in phpmyadmin.

Thought so too. However:

MariaDB [rpgcodex_xf2]> use goty_votes
ERROR 1044 (42000): Access denied for user 'rpgcodex_admin'@'localhost' to database 'goty_votes'

 

[lukaszek]

how many admin users does codex have

 

[d1r]

how many admin users does codex have

You either ask the handler DU or contact the admins themselves:

https://tips.fbi.gov/