Amazon ships an MMORPG - New World

[Norfleet]

Tab targeting isn't a "user convention for aiming attacks" it's literally not aiming attacks, it is selecting an an enemy to attack.

Yes, but that's not what makes it action or not. Selecting an enemy to attack is just an interface convention. The question is whether or not actors can DO anything about incoming attacks, or whether the ability to see attacks at all is purely cosmetic. See below.

People use this distinction because of how tab-target games work mechanically. Enemy casts a spell at you, you move behind a corner, still get hit as the spell flies through geometry. You walk up to an enemy and take damage before their attack animation even plays out. Or you walk up, then walk away, and still get hit as their weapon swings at air.

Yes, this is commonly what happens, but is not intrinsically tied to the notion of "tab-target", which is just an interface convention, that of pressing a button to direct attacks at a target. You can have a game that features this same interface convention, but once you let the attack loose, it's a physically simulated action that hits or misses based on whether or not actually hits an enemy.

Conversely, you can have a game which plays through an shooter-type interface, yet exhibits exactly the behavior above because it is not actually "action" combat.

I know this because there's a shitty MMO I've played that behaves in exactly the manner described, but in the console version, has a shooter interface instead...and yet it's exactly the same game mechanically. The shooter interface instead of tab-target has not changed the underlying nature of the game, only the user interface.

 

[gurugeorge]

Tab targeting isn't a "user convention for aiming attacks" it's literally not aiming attacks, it is selecting an an enemy to attack.

Yes, but that's not what makes it action or not. Selecting an enemy to attack is just an interface convention. The question is whether or not actors can DO anything about incoming attacks, or whether the ability to see attacks at all is purely cosmetic. See below.

People use this distinction because of how tab-target games work mechanically. Enemy casts a spell at you, you move behind a corner, still get hit as the spell flies through geometry. You walk up to an enemy and take damage before their attack animation even plays out. Or you walk up, then walk away, and still get hit as their weapon swings at air.

Yes, this is commonly what happens, but is not intrinsically tied to the notion of "tab-target", which is just an interface convention, that of pressing a button to direct attacks at a target. You can have a game that features this same interface convention, but once you let the attack loose, it's a physically simulated action that hits or misses based on whether or not actually hits an enemy.

Conversely, you can have a game which plays through an shooter-type interface, yet exhibits exactly the behavior above because it is not actually "action" combat.

I know this because there's a shitty MMO I've played that behaves in exactly the manner described, but in the console version, has a shooter interface instead...and yet it's exactly the same game mechanically. The shooter interface instead of tab-target has not changed the underlying nature of the game, only the user interface.

I get the point that people whine about tab targeting because of what Gerrard says, but to me that's absolutely trivial and irrelevant to the point anyway. Whiners could be satisfied by the tweak you mentioned, but presumably it's not common because it's just an extra layer of work for devs, for not much ROI. The point I'm making about tab targeting is about the relative ease of use while chatting, that's the only thing that interests me about it in the context of MMOs. Tabbing through targets and having the more abstracted combat is much easier when you're text chatting than faffing about trying to manually aim at things.

Action combat (or whatever you want to call it) sounds like a good idea, it sounds exciting, it sounds like something you'd want; but it's been just another nail in the coffin of socialization in MMOs (one among many, as you've said).

 

[rusty_shackleford]

tab-target is understood to be a specific type of game mechanic in the context of MMOs

 

[gurugeorge]

tab-target is understood to be a specific type of game mechanic in the context of MMOs

It's just abstracted, CRPG-style combat translated to the MMO format, as opposed to twitch-based combat. People had gripes with it, so developers thought it might be better and more "fun" to have more twitchy combat in MMOs. That was a mistake because it contributed to the death of socialization in MMOs.

More generally, you might say that combat in MMOs has to err to the side of abstraction, because twitch takes mindshare (or one might say fumble-share ) away from text-based socialization. The argument that people prefer voice is a red herring I think. People are well used to hunt-and-peck typing because of mobile phones, it's not like it's a big problem or a big barrier. Plus of course voice is random and ugly, and often immersion-breaking (different mic sounds, voice not matching character, incomprehensible, bawling 13 year olds with a racket in the background, etc. - problems that don't crop up or don't matter so much when you're with a group of people who've made friends).

Again, text provides a sort of safe space or cushion area between no communication at all (soloing through the MMO) and the more intimate communication you get from voice. You need that buffer zone so that people can shyly put out feelers to each other, and don't have to expose themselves through their voices immediately - there can be a layer of mind-to-mind communication via text that lets people get to know each other from the no communcation zone through the casual communication zone.

 

[GhostCow]

People use this distinction because of how tab-target games work mechanically. Enemy casts a spell at you, you move behind a corner, still get hit as the spell flies through geometry.

This has nothing to do with tab targeting. EQ had tab targeting and there were definitely spells that required a line of sight.

 

[Gerrard]

People use this distinction because of how tab-target games work mechanically. Enemy casts a spell at you, you move behind a corner, still get hit as the spell flies through geometry.

This has nothing to do with tab targeting. EQ had tab targeting and there were definitely spells that required a line of sight.

They all require a line of sight usually, at the time of casting. That's how it is even in games like ESO, which some people will claim has action combat and technically doesn't use tab-targeting, but in reality still has many of the issues I mentioned.

 

[GhostCow]

People use this distinction because of how tab-target games work mechanically. Enemy casts a spell at you, you move behind a corner, still get hit as the spell flies through geometry.

This has nothing to do with tab targeting. EQ had tab targeting and there were definitely spells that required a line of sight.

They all require a line of sight usually, at the time of casting. That's how it is even in games like ESO, which some people will claim has action combat and technically doesn't use tab-targeting, but in reality still has many of the issues I mentioned.

Mobs could hit you in the way you describe as a way to give a boost to the dumb AI, but if a player started casting a spell on a mob or player and it ran around a corner the spell would be interrupted or whiff. Healing spells were the one exception to this.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I'd have to go install EQ to verify(and who knows if that's true to old EQ mechanics,) but I really want to say the reason it wasn't an issue in EQ was because projectile spells didn't have travel time like they do in WoW.

Once fired, they do go through LoS in WoW. But you can still prevent them if they're mid-air and say, vanish.

[edit]
Appears I'm incorrect, at least with the later versions of EQ. Some spells do indeed have proper projectile mechanics, and collision does affect them unlike WoW.
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...n-changes-done-correctly.225223/#post-3296706

The bolt projectile will always follow the shortest possible path to its target. If the target gets moved behind a wall after the spell has been cast, the projectile will hit the wall and thus do no damage. For RS swarm pets with their fixed duration, every second spent in travel to the mob means less damage done.

It might be that projectile-type spells were largely limited to magicians, perhaps? I don't really remember my characters having any.

 

[GhostCow]

I'd have to go install EQ to verify(and who knows if that's true to old EQ mechanics,) but I really want to say the reason it wasn't an issue in EQ was because projectile spells didn't have travel time like they do in WoW.

Once fired, they do go through LoS in WoW. But you can still prevent them if they're mid-air and say, vanish.

[edit]
Appears I'm incorrect, at least with the later versions of EQ. Some spells do indeed have proper projectile mechanics, and collision does affect them unlike WoW.
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...n-changes-done-correctly.225223/#post-3296706

The bolt projectile will always follow the shortest possible path to its target. If the target gets moved behind a wall after the spell has been cast, the projectile will hit the wall and thus do no damage. For RS swarm pets with their fixed duration, every second spent in travel to the mob means less damage done.

It might be that projectile-type spells were largely limited to magicians, perhaps? I don't really remember my characters having any.

I think Wizards may have had one or two but it's been a while so I don't remember what spells exactly. I mostly remember fireworks working like that. They basically shot a projectile that you could use to agro things even though it didn't do any damage.

 

[Jenkem]

why are people that shit on diablo 2 for being a "left click simulator" advocating for tab-targeting?

you know who you are

 

[Stavrophore]

The game is shilled hard on twitch i assume it's not actually good, but it's all amazon money sprinkling over youtube/twitch influencers?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The game is shilled hard on twitch i assume it's not actually good, but it's all amazon money sprinkling over youtube/twitch influencers?

amazon owns twitch

 

[Norfleet]

The bolt projectile will always follow the shortest possible path to its target. If the target gets moved behind a wall after the spell has been cast, the projectile will hit the wall and thus do no damage. For RS swarm pets with their fixed duration, every second spent in travel to the mob means less damage done.

It might be that projectile-type spells were largely limited to magicians, perhaps? I don't really remember my characters having any.

Right, see? So you see how the distinction between "Tab target" and "action" is not as cut and dried as you'd think. The combat you describe is actually an active combat system and enemies can potentially dodge attacks. That you can aim it at enemies using tab-target is just UI.

 

[Zed]

What I've heard from a couple of friends who played the beta:

Wonky, janky, but kinda refreshing combat (--for an MMORPG).
Cool designs and nice environments.
Decent dungeons (or expeditions as they call it).
No end game content.

I think it will suck but that won't stop me from playing it for 1-2 weeks. Because: I am a retard.

 

[Jenkem]

A message from the New World team.

We are humbled by the support New World received from players around the world throughout Closed Beta. During Beta, more than a million adventurers entered Aeternum. Thanks to your support, New World became one of the most watched games on Twitch, and one of the most played games on Steam. The passion and enthusiasm you’ve shown for New World validates the work we’ve put in over the past year, improving the game based on your feedback.

Along the way, you’ve also given us a ton of feedback that we’ll use to make New World even better. We want New World’s launch to be a smooth and fun experience for all players, and that means making some improvements based on what you encountered during Closed Beta. So we’re going to take a few extra weeks to smash bugs, improve stability, and polish the game. New World’s new global launch date is September 28, 2021.

This was not an easy decision to make. We know this isn’t the first time we’ve changed our launch date in pursuit of quality, and that it can be disappointing to wait a bit longer. But we want to be sure we deliver you the highest quality game possible at launch. Thank you for your support and feedback. We’re listening. We’ll see you in Aeternum.

https://steamcommunity.com/games/1063730/announcements/detail/2958287948734926635

 

[Kem0sabe]

A message from the New World team.

We are humbled by the support New World received from players around the world throughout Closed Beta. During Beta, more than a million adventurers entered Aeternum. Thanks to your support, New World became one of the most watched games on Twitch, and one of the most played games on Steam. The passion and enthusiasm you’ve shown for New World validates the work we’ve put in over the past year, improving the game based on your feedback.

Along the way, you’ve also given us a ton of feedback that we’ll use to make New World even better. We want New World’s launch to be a smooth and fun experience for all players, and that means making some improvements based on what you encountered during Closed Beta. So we’re going to take a few extra weeks to smash bugs, improve stability, and polish the game. New World’s new global launch date is September 28, 2021.

This was not an easy decision to make. We know this isn’t the first time we’ve changed our launch date in pursuit of quality, and that it can be disappointing to wait a bit longer. But we want to be sure we deliver you the highest quality game possible at launch. Thank you for your support and feedback. We’re listening. We’ll see you in Aeternum.

https://steamcommunity.com/games/1063730/announcements/detail/2958287948734926635

Pursuit of what quality? This will only get any kind of traction because of wow players leaving in droves and needing their next fix.

FFXIV is getting a lot of those players but I think as soon as those wow cunts realize that FF is not a loot threadmil, and that the player base is more focused on glamours and making paintings about their characters riding a motorcycle in a field of lilies, they will soon leave for something else.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

got an email inviting me to a stability test, I thought this game already released?

 

[GhostCow]

got an email inviting me to a stability test, I thought this game already released?

Release date is Sep 28th

 

[ELEXmakesMeHard]

Yeah they announced that it was delayed by 1 month, shortly after closed beta.

There'll be a short open beta from September 9th - 12th.

 

[ELEXmakesMeHard]

I'm gonna do some shilling for this game.

First, let it be known that I'll probably regret this. Some long-term threats:

• The cash shop being filled with cancerous items that'll ruin the game's great aesthetics
• Pandering to casuals/redditors/streamers -- dumbing down the game (risk of adding minimap, more fast travel, mounts, etc.)
• Pressure to add more woke content

For the time being I'll enjoy the hell out of this though. It's unironically very enjoyable.

Let's compare it to the Gold Standard of RPGs: ELEX!

• It has the same kind of realistic & gritty art style, but higher quality.
• It has an open world of roughly the same size (a bit bigger), but it's a living world that'll be expanded.
• It has the same kind of real-time action combat system, but greatly improved, with many more options.
• It has far greater gathering options, and they're extremely satisfying. Mining, skinning, chopping wood, and fishing, are the best I've seen in any game. Especially the sounds.
• It has extensive crafting systems (blacksmithing, engineering, furnishing, arcana, cooking, jewelcrafting, etc.).
• No minimap, no mounts, very restricted fast travel options with long cooldown timers.

At least 95% of my gameplay involves exploration, combat, and gathering/scavenging, just like in ELEX. And those activities all feel superior.

The only noticably worse things that come to mind now are:

• New World has very generic dialogue so far. Piranha Bytes dialogue is world class by comparison.
• Although New World is set in an edgy setting (European colonial era), it'll never match the utter non-wokeness of Piranha Bytes games. New World seems like a White Supremacist game compared to the Pathfinder games that Codexians keep salivating over, though.
• Having to deal with the occasional retard.

The faction system is like in PlanetSide 2 and the Elder Scrolls Online: There's 3 factions competing for control of territory. The factions are:

• The Covenant (reminds me of the Inquisition from Risen 1)
• The Marauders (reminds me of the Outlaws from ELEX)
• The Syndicate (reminds me of Illuminati globalist liberalism & Epstein/Clintonesque pedo degeneracy from real life)

I especially like how the liberal/pedo faction is virtue signalling hard about science & progressivism. That ensures that all the most annoying players are drawn to the only faction which holds zero appeal for me. Especially since they'll also associate the Covenant with Christianity/patriarchy/traditionalism, and the Marauders with unfettered masculinity.

If you're into open world action RPGs, and haven't drunk too deeply from the woke Owlbearian kool-aid, then you might enjoy jumping into the open beta next week.

 

[GhostCow]

Pressure to add more woke content

More details on this please. Also you are bad at shilling because your post makes the game sound like shit

 

[ELEXmakesMeHard]

Pressure to add more woke content

More details on this please. Also you are bad at shilling because your post makes the game sound like shit

My shilling is tailored for those who have the ELEX Mindset. Not towards tentacle porn weeb hentai lovers.

Pressure to add more woke content is just a fact of modernity, especially when a big corporation is funding the game. There's no details, it's just a general risk. But even in the worst case scenario I'm sure it'd be less woke than Pathfinder.

 

[Jenkem]

Quite a lot of new info on the game, summarized well in this video:



Confirmation that mounts wont happen in the foreseeable future.
New PvP content shortly after launch
PvP only servers shot down again
Roadmap of content to be released at launch
Faction balance being addressed
No new content for launch but there will be balance fixes
Lag in large fights being addressed
No server switching/cross play planned
Improved company bank details/logs
More incentives to PvP flag
More end game PvE planned for shortly after launch and seasonal events.
Suggested language per server likely to be there for launch

 

[Saerain]

Cracks me up that this crap is the comeback of the western MMORPG after almost a decade's drought. Ouch.

 

[Ulysa]

Played beta and ended up refunding. Not that much time now for a game where main activity is mining and running all over without any freaking mount. World is absolutely beautiful and that's why I considered keeping it, but then I remember Rdr2 so pretty, so boring. I will pass , at least for now.