Age of Wonders 3

[Reality]

My main problem with 2/SM is ai behavior since it feels like no matter what race they are they spam ballistas and no matter what magic sphere they are they use cosmic spray.

 

[DakaSha]

2022 and this nigga coming to the realization that 2000's ai was even more dogshit than it is now

 

[octavius]

My main problem with 2/SM is ai behavior since it feels like no matter what race they are they spam ballistas and no matter what magic sphere they are they use cosmic spray.

That's quite easy to mod, so they build other units and cast other spells.
But nothing, except a possible Triumphant Intervention, can make the AI explore/use other sites than prisoner dungeons.

 

[visions]

My main problem with 2/SM is ai behavior since it feels like no matter what race they are they spam ballistas and no matter what magic sphere they are they use cosmic spray.

They seem to spam ballistas in the first game too, but ballistas are pretty scary in AoW1, so it would be dumber if they didn't spam them.

 

[octavius]

AOW1 Ballistas are especially scary because a) They can fire TWICE (AOW2/AOWSM ballista only fire once, unless you use the fancy triple one in AOWSM) and b) In AOW, if your attack is lower than the enemy's defense, then every hit deals MAX damage.

What the hell...does this only apply to Ballista? If not, it explains why the AI always seem to do max damage against my heroes.

 

[Norfleet]

To everything, actually, if my memory does not betray me. If DEF > ATK, then any successful attack will deal max damage to the high DEF unit.

IIRC, the reason that happens is because certain attacks always hit for max damage (essentially crits), and if you don't have enough attack, that's the ONLY kind of attack that can hit at all.

 

[octavius]

Is this an undocumented design feature?

 

[Lacrymas]

Is this an undocumented design feature?

It depends on what you mean by "undocumented". I have very limited experience with AoW1 and 2 (only finished one campaign in 1 f.e.), but I noticed this happens quite fast, especially once you pump up your heroes' defense stat. Even though I read some part of the manual for some reason and played the tutorial, I'm not sure if they ever mention this explicitly, but like I said it's very easy to start noticing it.

 

[vota DC]

My main problem with 2/SM is ai behavior since it feels like no matter what race they are they spam ballistas and no matter what magic sphere they are they use cosmic spray.

They seem to spam ballistas in the first game too, but ballistas are pretty scary in AoW1, so it would be dumber if they didn't spam them.

AOW1 Ballistas are especially scary because a) They can fire TWICE (AOW2/AOWSM ballista only fire once, unless you use the fancy triple one in AOWSM) and b) In AOW, if your attack is lower than the enemy's defense, then every hit deals MAX damage.
The fancy Orcish ones are even worse because they can inflict Death Damage, which means they can nerf your hero with the first hit and make the second one even worse.

Ballistas in AOW deal 5 damage. Heroes start with 10 HP.
So if you pump defense high up and forget to pump HP too, Ballistas can two-shot your fancy DEF 10 Hero in a single turn

Also being machines you can't suck their life with Life stealing skill.

 

[visions]

To everything, actually, if my memory does not betray me. If DEF > ATK, then any successful attack will deal max damage to the high DEF unit.

IIRC, the reason that happens is because certain attacks always hit for max damage (essentially crits), and if you don't have enough attack, that's the ONLY kind of attack that can hit at all.

Yep, this is how I remember it. Googled a bit, found a wiki for the game: https://ageofwonders.fandom.com/wiki/Combat_mechanics

Attacker's Relative Strength	Chance to Hit
-4 or less	10%
-3	20%
-2	30%
-1	40%
0	50%
1	60%
2	70%
3	80%
4 or more	90%

Unsuccessful hits deal no damage. Critical hits deal the maximum damage of the ability or spell used. Non-critical successful hits deal a random amount of damage between the attacker's minimum and maximum damage inclusive. An attacker's minimum damage is typically one, but if the attacker's relative strength was 5 or greater, the attacker's minimum damage is increased. Mathematically, the attacker's minimum damage is the larger of 1 or (Attack - Defense - 3).

If the defender has resistance to the damage type of the attack, only half damage is dealt. If the defender has immunity to the damage type, no damage is dealt.

So the DEF has to be higher by 4 points than the ATK in order to require scoring a critical hit in order to hit the enemy, and critical hits always do max damage. So that's why ballistas always deal max damage when they hit DEF 10 heroes.

 

[octavius]

Is there any mention of critical hits in the manual?

 

[Mitleser2020]

I just finished Sundred campaign damm what a let-down I didn't even face those shadowborns no final boss just beating 2 main leaders with MC and ending about Merlin confessing his everlasting love to Julia and then cucking the resolution to the conflict between elves and humans didn't make any sense so what that they made peace? We already had peace and after 300 hundred years humans started fucking things up, so there is no long term resolution at all lol

Why did you not side with the Orcs?

 

[Sunri]

I just finished Sundred campaign damm what a let-down I didn't even face those shadowborns no final boss just beating 2 main leaders with MC and ending about Merlin confessing his everlasting love to Julia and then cucking the resolution to the conflict between elves and humans didn't make any sense so what that they made peace? We already had peace and after 300 hundred years humans started fucking things up, so there is no long term resolution at all lol

Why did you not side with the Orcs?

I don't support Ukrainians.

 

[Absinthe]

Meanwhile AoW 3 has morale-based crits, with 25% crit chance at Cheerful (600+ morale). Grey Guard Adept has a spell that doubles crit chance though and Tigran RG5 doubles crit chance also (getting both only means 75% crit chance at 600+ morale). Destruction Adept's Killer Instinct unit buff spell also raises crit damage massively, but as a single-target buff spell it's not that popular, since you can only cast 1 spell per combat round.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I'm still pissed that the sovereign is always on horseback.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

I'm still pissed that the sovereign is always on horseback.

Yeah its such a weird limitation. I remember how many AOW2 mods had non-mounted heroes and that was pretty cool

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I'm still pissed that the sovereign is always on horseback.

Yeah its such a weird limitation. I remember how many AOW2 mods had non-mounted heroes and that was pretty cool

It's a pity that Fallen Enchantress is such a mediocre game because its hero and sovereign customization is probably the best of the lot.

 

[Absinthe]

I'm still pissed that the sovereign is always on horseback.

I'm annoyed that alternate mounts were implemented in such a half-assed way. Instead of each race having its own mounts you could build for heroes, they're just loot pickups and outside of that the Sorcerer (and only the Sorcerer) can just spam a spell that will create eggs that turn into mounts in up to 10 turns. It's such a goddamn lazy approach and it doesn't even really make sense. Why isn't the Arch-Druid the one with the mount-summoning spell? Why doesn't every race get 1 or 2 mount options for their heroes, like their own racial units have? And then there are mounts whose creatures are also summonable (like Hell Hounds) but you cannot summon a mount version of them either. Instead every hero appears on an identical horse unless you have the rare hero that comes with a custom mount.

 

[ELEXmakesMeHard]

If I'm Good (Creation Master) and have Destruction Nodes in my territory, is there any way to convert them to Creation Nodes?

I've only seen spells for converting Mana Nodes.

 

[razvedchiki]

is there any mod that differentiates the racial units based on ideology? ie dwarf musketeer's will be different from orc ones etc.

 

[Reality]

Chivalrous intentions kinda...

it keeps the original "duplicated class units" like musketeer/crusader etc , but also adds 1-3 specific units per race/class combination - an example would be Archdruid - Goblins get a Spider Witch, Draconian get a Treeman, and Orc get a Boar Chariot.

Try it out if you want (It'll sort the new units in the filters in the ingame Unit encylopedia). I enjoy it in small doses but most of the time it feels like TOO much to me.

 

[Lacrymas]

There are already differences between the class units of different races since the races themselves have different stats. That's why some classes have meta race choices.

 

[Absinthe]

If I'm Good (Creation Master) and have Destruction Nodes in my territory, is there any way to convert them to Creation Nodes?

I've only seen spells for converting Mana Nodes.

No. The node conversion spells used to do that in previous AoW games, but they changed it because they didn't like how it looks when all the nodes are of one type. Even though the results are shit balance-wise compared to alignment specs. The PBEM balance mod changed the node altering spell so you can use it to shift all types of nodes, instead of just cosmos ones.

There are already differences between the class units of different races since the races themselves have different stats. That's why some classes have meta race choices.

That's not what he's asking for. And pretty much every class has racial preferences, although the value of race/class combos depends a lot on what you're up against.

 

[Lacrymas]

How do I get the up-to-date balance mod for the GOG version of AoW3?

EDIT: Nvm, I found it - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qv7gezs9rk8o60p/AABNUMDz1J9CSqGsUvJsrlzwa?dl=0

 

[Monocause]

Who plays these games for the story? Jesus. I'll admit the writing on the first game was cute, and the rest is bad, but it doesn't matter. Go read your book, etc. I disagree with the consensus here, too much nostalgia bullshit as usual ; AoW always was meant to be a more balanced version of MoM. The third game is the accomplishment of said balanced design. In that sense it's not flawed at all, if anything this series knows very well what it's doing. This applies to Planetfall as well. I would say the point of these games is to develop tactical battles on a strategic field, with an emphasis on the individual unit characteristics. Following that criteria, AoW 1 was atrocious in so far as the hero abuse made tactical manoeuvring and unit variety often pointless. The insertion of balance is there to keep the tension on the tactical scenarios and remove the more extravagant combinations of MoM (which admittedly are strategically a lot of fun, but on another level). As far as elements not being differentiated enough, the class system is more of than than any of the previous games. I'll agree that the specializations are not impactful enough, but the class-race setup is more than varied in itself.

This. It's funny how AoW3 and 4 are compared negatively to 1 and 2&SM, or rather: it's funny WHY they're compared negatively.

If you want to compare stuff like writing, charm, flavour then yeah, it's a competition. And 1 and 2 I think feel better in this department because each race choice locked you into a very specific unit set. AoW3 I think suffers specifically in the charm department from a serviceable but lackluster art direction which I think is the worst compared to the other 3 games in the series.

In terms of balance or design? I truly believe 3 and 4 are just much better games. In AoW1 it was a hero bulldozer and most of the stuff quickly lost its meaning as your hero gained levels. You reached a point where your hero with all the enchants and leveling buffs could solo almost everything. The difficulty curve I felt was insanely proportional to your hero levels and I never felt there's "other strategies" that would be remotely as good as just getting your hero pumped up.

In AoW2 and SM the heroes also could get absurdly powerful but they also introduced really powerful T3 and T4 units. Still like about 70-80% of the entire unit roster was completely useless and you would never ever build these units past the very early game. There's still some problems with that in 3 and 4 (probably unavoidable) but it's hugely lessened. A big chunk of the AoW2 spellbook was also, as far as I remember, effectively useless either immediately or very quickly as some spells had multiple variants that effectively meant "same shit but bigger numbers".

Even in terms of the campaign there were some very glaring problems which later games avoided. For instance AoW2 (can't remember if this was also the case with the first one) inadvertedly rewarded turtle players who spent 300 turns doing the first campaign map - because research carried over. This meant that if you played optimally and fast you would start the 2nd map with the same character in a SIGNIFICANTLY worse position than a player who clicked the end turn button 100 times and raked in all the research.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to shit on AoW1 and 2. I love these games and played them to death back in the day. But the entire series is very strong, and each installment comes with its own flaws and improvements. Note that I'm not referring to Planetfall in this post as I think the game was quite experimental and should to be judged separately.