Game News Age of Decadence Released on Steam Early Access

[Elhoim]

Question: if I lower my enemy's accuracy by critting him, say, twice in the head and once in arms, do those penalties stack?

Yep. Also, bigger weapons give bigger penalties.

 

[Midair]

prolonged exposure to retardation

I haven't played much since the first public beta, and I agree many things seem to be better communicated now. I am just going off on kind of a tangent to show why I think AoD's design does not really solve the problem you find in easier games, which is that they just become a chore. In some ways, AoD's difficulty is still just a chore.

 

[hiver]

Of course it isnt. Difficulty is an integral part of the whole setting, themes and overall gestalt of the game.

 

[latexmonkeys]

I just saved Verdanis again using a slightly different strategy and build. Fun!!

 

[hiver]

Guuuuys! Make it harder!

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

We've discussed it and you posted some pictures as proof. I played Bloodlines several times, usually using guns because they worked so well when you put some points in them. Never had a problem. If anything I felt that guns, even the early ones, were too powerful.

Ah, well, it's good to know you're someone whose opinion isn't worth considering when evaluating shooters.

Putting points in guns and perception (you needed both for ranged combat) didn't help in Bloodlines and you have visual proof, eh? You're an idiot.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Of course it isnt. Difficulty is an integral part of the whole setting, themes and overall gestalt of the game.

Of course, one could argue that that would depend on player skill. A challenging battle to you might seem impossible to someone of low skill when it comes to strategy, thus changing the nature of the fight for them. One could also argue that that level of player skill involvement encroaches on the RPG part of the game as much as it would in a FPS/RPG - augmenting or negating your character's skill level with your own. To be the devil's advocate - which is pointless as VD seems pretty set on this - a slider that offered even a marginal bonus to player hitpoints - 10-15 max - could help players like the reviewer from earlier who are struggling with even the first few fights and prevent a lot of needless balance work on the dev side, yet still keep the same level of challenge that a more skilled player like yourself would feel. As the player progresses and plays the game more, it would hopeful become easier and he could lower the slider to normal difficulty.

 

[hiver]

Nope.

People who struggle with the game in that way dont do it because they are less skilled then me. This isnt rocket science. They cannot into AoD because they refuse to invest any effort at all. They just want to win and get the nice feeling - which, when achieved in that way is shallow, short fleeting thing.

The game can either be what it is or it can be dumbed down for casuals. If it dumbed down its gestalt is lost. That theoretical player will never get to be as invested and as rewarded as players are now. Plus - that would require balancing the whole game for such stats or stat ranges - otherwise it would turn into... something lesser. At best. Its the exact same path mass market games fall down. Satisfying every single possible player in exact same amount - so that none feels left out - which cannot be done.
Its like trying to paint a picture every single human will like in exact same way.

And no, just having it as option doesnt mean it wont affect anyone else. Knowing that there is such an option - and knowing that there isnt - is a big difference in certain ways.

Of course this does not mean the game wont be improved. Again, this is a beta - the design is continuing as we speak.
I saw post by Elhoim yesterday saying they will make some sort of training practice ... tutorial in which the players will be able to learn about combat and get some experience in it.
To me it seems like a lot of work that could be better spent elsewhere but... its not up to me.

Plus, if you followed the development at all you should know that Vince may argue about some feature or concept for days and months if need be - and then next version goes out and that idea is incorporated in it, although, of course, in more or less different manner.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Its like trying to paint a picture every single human will like in exact same way.

Uh, isn't that what you just did? You assume that most people can reach your skill level just by learning the system. However, intelligence and aptitude plays a large factor as well. Is it reasonable to expect someone who learns this sort of game slowly to invest a couple of hours into it just to beat the first few fights? Do you think most people will want to do that? You might argue that people without that aptitude shouldn't play this game, but Fallout - this game's spiritual ancestor, had the easiest combat on the planet. That game's fanbase, in part or in whole, is the audience of this game. Therefore, it is to be expected that not all AoD players will be good at critical thinking and strategy in combat. I'm not talking about people who are just lazy, but people who suck at this sort of game and learn it slowly.

I saw post by Elhoim yesterday saying they will make some sort of training practice ... tutorial in which the players will be able to learn about combat and get some experience in it.
To me it seems like a lot of work that could be better spent elsewhere but... its not up to me.

I agree with this to a degree. If players aren't willing to take the time and thought to learn in-game, they won't even want to bother with the tutorial that will take the same amount of time, but not progress them through the story. Heck, most people don't even read the help.

Plus, if you followed the development at all you should know that Vince may argue about some feature or concept for days and months if need be - and then next version goes out and that idea is incorporated in it, although, of course, in more or less different manner.

I've brought up the slider concept a couple of times over the years, but he hasn't budged. Maybe the new players will change that. I just think it'd be a quick fix to shut up most of the whiners without any real dev time spent and without damaging the soul of the game much, if at all. It's not a new invention, game devs have been using it successfully almost since the beginning of video games. Boost the player's hitpoints by a small percentage, suddenly the "impossible" fight between an assassin and a beggar becomes just winnable. Problem solved. Then the player learns, it becomes easier, and he turns the difficulty back to normal. No dev time spent. No months of testing. El fin.

edit: That said, I'm ok with leaving it as it is too, since Vince's sales goals aren't high and the system IS learnable. I just want whatever causes the game to be finished sooner.

 

[hiver]

Uh, isn't that what you just did? You assume that most people can reach your skill level just by learning the system.

No. Im perfectly fine with huge masses not liking it, not playing it, not being able to invest minimum of effort even if the game provides whole paths without any combat at all.
And its not about reaching "my skill level". I aint that good with it - yet. I just got out of Teron with one background.

Is it reasonable to expect someone who learns this sort of game slowly to invest a couple of hours into it just to beat the first few fights?

No need to invest hours at all. And no need to fight.

but Fallout - this game's spiritual ancestor, had the easiest combat on the planet.

Yeah sure. Thats what i remeber from it while i screamed and run like a bitch from almost every random encounter when i started playing it or praying to god i run into two gangs fighting eachother so i can run in steal a gun and then run away before they turn their attention to me.

That game's fanbase, in part or in whole, is the audience of this game. Therefore, it is to be expected that not all AoD players will be good at critical thinking and strategy.

Excuse me?

Choose your secundant sir. GD at high noon.

I've brought up the slider concept a couple of times over the years, but he hasn't budged. Maybe the new players will change that. I just think it'd be a quick fix to shut up most of the whiners

What i said does not mean he will accept any suggestion - at all. There is no need to waste time to shut up all the whiners either.
After all - factually there is very few of them. I say fuck em.
Im really, really annoyed with such thinking and seeing various devs bending over backwards just because there is some whiner who went crying. I cant stand that shit.

And i said why i think that idea would turn out as much more work then it seems at first and what its negative consequences will be. In my opinion.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Yeah sure. Thats what i remeber from it while i screamed and run like a bitch from almost every random encounter when i started playing it or praying to god i run into two gangs fighting eachother so i can run in steal a gun and then run away before they turn their attention to me.

Lambchop's Fallout strategy guide: get machine pistol, turn to burst mode, don't use any other weapon for the next half of the game. That or eye-shots. Or fast shot.

Meh, it's all opinion anyway.

There is no need to waste time to shut up all the whiners either.
After all - factually there is very few of them. I say fuck em.

I'm down with that. It's just that answering all their questions on steam and building them their own little training yard sounds nothing like "fuck 'em", imho.

 

[1eyedking]

And this is why 80% of people will say your game sucks.

Listen I'm an old school gamer (i.e., >40 years old) and this nostalgia kick for hard games is all well and good... until you include devs pushing players into unwinnable situations (and yes a 20% win rate is for all intents and purposes unwinnable). Those weren't the things that made old rpgs great, that's the stupid "old-school" dev crap we put up with because of great stories and character development in those games.

Sad to say, but you guys seems have simply embraced too much of what was bad about the old-school genre of RPGs: confusion, frustration, unclear objectives, dying a lot, dying because of a dialogue choice, etc... all sucked the fun and immersion out of games 30 years ago and they still do.

Glad you provided a demo though, otherwise I may have actually bought this game.

On a serious note, I do feel like I'm playing a puzzle game.

Because of the open nature of the system, your selection of skills is a hit or miss - at this point I'd say that not all combinations are supported as solutions for various events. The skill pool necessites focus on specific fields, but you need prior knowledge to build it up enough, since most event checks seem rather punitive toward even a minor attempt at a spread.

Playing, for instance, an assassin, it's extremely difficult to figure out whether you need lockpicking, sneak, disguise, persuasion or streetwise. Should you worry about traps?

This, on top of the large range of weapons (do I need to use daggers? Throw stuff at people? Shoot them with surprisingly quick-firing crossbows, or go evil Robin Hood on them?) changes the game into very much constant trial and error attempt.

Take the bandit camp, for instance. Unless I'm missing something (happens more often than I'd care for it ), there's no option of sneaking in during the night and cutting each successive throat in peace and quiet. Or just spiking their dinner with some handy poison to, at least, weaken them (it's an option in the Outpost, n'est ce pas?). Or camping until the night in a tree, then taking potshots at the milling confusion from up top until I'm spotted (and, hopefully, no longer so outnumbered).

/thread

It's scary to find this kind of insight only outside the Codex nowadays. People outside these forums have a keener grasp on artistic design and general game experience, rather than the extreme rationalization so in common here, the kind that makes people get utterly lost from the big picture.
They even went as far as saying the game foments metagaming to a very annoying level. I mean, I swear to God I never read such a kind of comment here.
And to be honest, VD killed his own game. The guy's got his head so far up his ass that lump on his throat is his nose.

That said, it will probably touch the hardcore edgy crowd in all the right places. "Oh my god I'm reloading so much this is so cool!", "I died 20 times! Excellent!", "I had to restart 50 times before I managed to get the skills for a thief right!" , "My brain is so large!", etc. All of this in the comfort of a single claustrophobic screen.

People are so blind nowadays that they can't understand that what made the Fallout games so great wasn't the gameplay, but the overall feeling it had. It wasn't particularly unforgiving - but it played well.

PS: If I have a reason at all for wanting this game to actually fare in any way well, it's because Oscar was involved in it. The guy's got far more talent and game understanding than VD and I'm pretty sure if left all by himself he would have pulled something good out.

 

[Infinitron]

1eyedking: We went over all of these things last year. You need to spend more time on the Codex.

...

What am I saying

 

[1eyedking]

1eyedking: We went over all of these things last year. You need to spend more time on the Codex.

...

What am I saying

Gladly point me to the thread in question and I'll give it a quick skim through.

But whatever, we all know how this ends. Most people have their opinions pretty stuck in their ass by now, in no particular way am I expecting to sway someone to my cause; rather to see if I can stumble upon someone who thinks and judges in a way similar to my own.

 

[hiver]

I'm down with that. It's just that answering all their questions on steam and building them their own little training yard sounds nothing like "fuck 'em", imho.

Its some kind of developer disease. I think its from all that dust they sniff from the power supply fans.

Lambchop's Fallout strategy guide: get machine pistol, turn to burst mode, don't use any other weapon for the next half of the game. That or eye-shots. Or fast shot.

- i have plenty of strategies myself. Like go melee, find a cattle prod, investigate orifices. Or, powerblade - meet groin. Groin, meet powerblade. Give machine gun to Sulik for maximal extreme emotional engagement.
Or go Hth and throwing - nades. Bruce Lee anything that comes close, bomb the rest.

But... when you just start playing... thats a different story. Especially when you dont know there are these things called game manuals and you dont mind learning through direct experience at all. Every trip to Modoc an ironman in blue pajamas.

 

[Infinitron]

Gladly point me to the thread in question and I'll give it a quick skim through.

But whatever, we all know how this ends. Most people have their opinions pretty stuck in their ass by now, in no particular way am I expecting to sway someone to my cause; rather to see if I can stumble upon someone who thinks and judges in a way similar to my own.

Knock yourself out:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/70531/
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/73356/

 

[Haba]

Please do not feed the troll.

 

[Black]

Please do not feed the troll.

That ain't the way of the Codex.

 

[1eyedking]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/70531/
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/73356/

Not much said in those threads, really. Just the usual circle-jerking, and the occasional exception. Some posts Grunker made concerning tactical options were p. smart.

Besides the claustrophobic teleportation, stupid character development, and badly-designed difficulty I'll never bear to play a game that includes writing such as "demons from Thor-Agoth".

Yeah, let's read that one again:
THOR-AGOTH

Hmm. I thought VD was supposed to be 50 or something.

 

[Black]

Ok, disregarding 1eyedking as usual, here's another set of problems.
1. The camera- if I step outside this house it doesn't let me rotate to a position where I can see what's inside.
2. This bug appears when I throw my death bombs inside.

 

[latexmonkeys]

Of course it isnt. Difficulty is an integral part of the whole setting, themes and overall gestalt of the game.

Of course, one could argue that that would depend on player skill. A challenging battle to you might seem impossible to someone of low skill when it comes to strategy, thus changing the nature of the fight for them. One could also argue that that level of player skill involvement encroaches on the RPG part of the game as much as it would in a FPS/RPG - augmenting or negating your character's skill level with your own. To be the devil's advocate - which is pointless as VD seems pretty set on this - a slider that offered even a marginal bonus to player hitpoints - 10-15 max - could help players like the reviewer from earlier who are struggling with even the first few fights and prevent a lot of needless balance work on the dev side, yet still keep the same level of challenge that a more skilled player like yourself would feel. As the player progresses and plays the game more, it would hopeful become easier and he could lower the slider to normal difficulty.

Adding 15 hitpoints won't help in the least if your character attributes and skills are poorly or even sub-optimally allocated. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

True, but I'm more referring to people who cannot into more basic strategy elements - when to use an arm strike vs head strike, using the wrong weapon, positioning etc, not full on retard stuff like building a jack of all trades loser PC. Just a slight edge to help them out, not a revolutionary game change.

 

[Roguey]

Putting points in guns and perception (you needed both for ranged combat) didn't help in Bloodlines and you have visual proof, eh? You're an idiot.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-truth-with-rpgnuke.87355/page-3#post-2930325

 

[Vault Dweller]

It's scary to find this kind of insight only outside the Codex nowadays. People outside these forums have a keener grasp on artistic design and general game experience, rather than the extreme rationalization so in common here, the kind that makes people get utterly lost from the big picture. They even went as far as saying the game foments metagaming to a very annoying level. I mean, I swear to God I never read such a kind of comment here. And to be honest, VD killed his own game. The guy's got his head so far up his ass that lump on his throat is his nose.

That said, it will probably touch the hardcore edgy crowd in all the right places. "Oh my god I'm reloading so much this is so cool!", "I died 20 times! Excellent!", "I had to restart 50 times before I managed to get the skills for a thief right!" , "My brain is so large!", etc. All of this in the comfort of a single claustrophobic screen.

People are so blind nowadays that they can't understand that what made the Fallout games so great wasn't the gameplay, but the overall feeling it had. It wasn't particularly unforgiving - but it played well.

PS: If I have a reason at all for wanting this game to actually fare in any way well, it's because Oscar was involved in it. The guy's got far more talent and game understanding than VD and I'm pretty sure if left all by himself he would have pulled something good out.

Butthurt's reaching critical level. Explosion imminent. Evacuate the facility immediately.

Not much said in those threads, really. Just the usual circle-jerking, and the occasional exception. Some posts Grunker made concerning tactical options were p. smart.

Besides the claustrophobic teleportation, stupid character development, and badly-designed difficulty I'll never bear to play a game that includes writing such as "demons from Thor-Agoth".

Yeah, let's read that one again:
THOR-AGOTH

Hmm. I thought VD was supposed to be 50 or something.

Moron. Read Lovecraft.

PS. For the record, there are no demons in the game, from "Thor-Agoth" or anywhere else.

 

[Black]

And another example of the game switching your weapons- if you betray the guild as assassin, shoot Dias and then go to kill your bros, you'll find yourself holding a yatagan and nothing in your other hand.
Stop doing that you cunt of a game.
Same thing if you don't betray the guild.