Interview Age of Decadence - Big in France

[Vault Dweller]

Thanks, Jas. That was a pretty good and insightful post. You should, like, totally visit http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php

Anyway, we shall consider the matter settled.

 

[PorkaMorka]

in Dark Omen, tactics are less important than they would be in a turn based game.

Let's say I'm a tactical genius, but I'm slow as balls with the mouse. My actions per minute is like 1.

I will lose in Dark Omen, no matter how good my tactics are.

In Dark Omen, tactics are important, but so is actions per minute. It's actually very important, I personally do not have enough actions per minute with the mouse to do well in Dark Omen at all, despite being able to do well in FPS and MMORPG action combat (those tend to use hotkeys more). In order to do well in Dark Omen I would have to practice to improve not my tactics, but my actions per minute with the mouse (speed and accuracy of clicking).

In JA2, your actions per minute don't matter. Only your tactics, strategy and knowledge of the game (and luck).

But in a proper real time with pause game, this is also mostly true. As it will either have auto pause, or you'll just have to hit space bar to pause it. Hitting space bar is very easy even if you have low actions per minute, since your finger can stay on it.

There is no conceptual reason that you could not make a real time with pause game that is as tactical as JA2. No one has done so yet, but hardly anyone is working on this project except some Russians. Real time with pause tactics genre is very niche, so it's not surprising it's a little behind the best turn based tactics right now.

Some Russians did make Brigade E5: New Jagged Union and 7.62mm, real time with pause games that while NOT having as much tactical depth as the very best tactical turn based games, CAN match average and even above average tactical turn based games in terms of tactical depth.

Odds are very high that there will be more tactical depth in 7.62mm than Age of Decadence for example, because one is a tactical game and one is a turn based CRPG with combat apparently inspired by falliout.

 

[Hamster]

There is something i was thinking about. Take for example tabletop Warhammer that i already mentioned, usualy one game lasts for six turns and in six turns a normal infantry unit can move just about ~30 inches. It means that if you will place this unit in the wrong place it have the chance to be left out from the main action.

If you make the game RT, it will take away such constrains in movement.

But take a real time Total War game. The same problem, while less important, is present there. Position your units wrongly and they will fail to protect cannons or other units's flank in time. That happens because of large scale of the game, units must cover considerable distances.

And here problem arises for Rpg's, they don't have the big scale of strategy games, preventing real-time combat from realising potential that it can show in strategy games.

 

[Jasede]

But you can always PAUSE the game, PorkaMorka.

 

[Gragt]

Highjacking the thread but I'm curious: which of Shadow of the Horned Rat and Dark Omen is the better game (and why)? I played SotHR before and while I liked it always stopped because of the difficulty. Then again I did not have balls of stell like I do now, the kind that goes *clink* when I walk in the street. Should I play the two or can I skip one because it's inferior? I guess you'll recommand DO, Jasede, seeing as you did a LP of it (well I am doing a LP too but so that people won't play that game).

 

[PorkaMorka]

But you can always PAUSE the game, PorkaMorka.

Can you give orders while paused?

I'll be honest, I only played SOTHR and in that one you couldn't give orders while paused, so my glacially slow clicking made me a failure at it.

 

[nomask7]

But you can always PAUSE the game, PorkaMorka.

Can you give orders while paused?

I'll be honest, I only played SOTHR and in that one you couldn't give orders while paused, so my glacially slow clicking made me a failure at it.

Just as playing Bach isn't for everyone, playing those two games isn't for all the sausage fingers of the world either, although I can't recall much clicking being involved, except when boosting morale. The most intense map in Dark Omen was the snowy mountain road one, where you have to climb a mountain and the best way to do that is to wait for the enemy troops to descend while sending your wizard on assassination missions whenever there's enough magic power to teleport to a location, cast the flaming flame spell, and teleport back to safety, which involves a lot of moving the camera around, especially when some of the enemy troops, having descended the mountain, begin to attack your other troops. It's more interesting than it sounds, and like Bach, Dark Omen is one of the best things around, but like Bach, it's elite stuff.

 

[Wyrmlord]

That's why I always say that fantasy dungeon crawling sucks. Writing a tactical walk-through for JA2 is a lot more difficult.

Quite the opposite, actually.

Alot of these games randomize every variable in the game, and that creates so many possible situations.

What the player is supposed to do is handle those random variables and those unique situations in the best possible manner.

You can't write any more of a walkthrough for it either. In fact, most Wizardry 6 guides give very basic and general advice. You don't even know the kind of party you will end up having. Or whether the battle will turn out exactly the way you hope it will.

 

[Murk]

Highjacking the thread but I'm curious: which of Shadow of the Horned Rat and Dark Omen is the better game (and why)? I played SotHR before and while I liked it always stopped because of the difficulty. Then again I did not have balls of stell like I do now, the kind that goes *clink* when I walk in the street. Should I play the two or can I skip one because it's inferior? I guess you'll recommand DO, Jasede, seeing as you did a LP of it (well I am doing a LP too but so that people won't play that game).

Dark Omen wins for the ususl sequel reasons - updated and improved graphics, interface, added content, larger resolution and play screen, etc.

Shadow of the Horned Rat however has its own very unique charm, and if you can overlook the fact that only 25% of the screen is the battle area and that the controls take up half the fucking screen... you will enjoy it probably as much.

Also, Horned Rat is harder ;( [and has skaven]

 

[Jasede]

I liked SotHR a lot better than DO, mainly because it has many more choices and consequences and paths to take, is a whole lot harder to me, and has Skaven - far cooler than endless undead and orcs. It also used "monsters" more liberally, like trolls and rat ogres and these bouncing balls that looked like Critters.

 

[Gragt]

Yeah, I remember reaching that first mission with the first rat ogre... and that's probably where I left the game. I was patient but not that patient.

I honestly "like" the interface as well as the look and feel of SotHR so that's definitely not a problem. I guess I'll try to play it and then try to find Dark Omen.

Thank you very much for the input!

 

[Jasede]

Tha Rat Ogre is a fierce opponent and will net you many losses- until you realize a single Amber Spear, but two for sure, will kill him safely from a distance.

In fact, the Amber Wizard is your best and most devastating unit in the game and I would be very impressed if somebody completed SotHR without ever resorting to his many useful spells. All his spells are incredibly good: deal damage, deal ridiculous damage, hold a regiment, slow/fear a regiment - terrific.

 

[Gragt]

Hehe, yeah, I kinda figured the guy was useful but I couldn't really manage to use him properly. Maybe now that my English is a tad better, I'll be able to fully understand the manual.

 

[S_Verner]

Tabletop Warhammer is turned based and much more tactical than DO. And since turned based DO can be made to be just a copy of tabletop game...

whereas tabletop warhammer 40k is much less strategic than it's RTS because it's purpose is today sell overpriced minis.

 

[Hamster]

Tabletop Warhammer is turned based and much more tactical than DO. And since turned based DO can be made to be just a copy of tabletop game...

whereas tabletop warhammer 40k is much less strategic than it's RTS because it's purpose is today sell overpriced minis.

Fail.

 

[Serus]

I don't get something. This is the codex. Some guy brought an exemple of a RT tactical game without pause... and people take him seriously ? This is real time without pause in game where you have to control up to 15 units as i heard ! Those units don't even have a working AI to do the simplest things without player input. Can it get much worse ?

 

[Darth Roxor]

stfu