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Decline Wrath of the Righteous is even worse than Kingmaker (which was already shit)

Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,392
To quote the great Lilura, Poncefinder: Cuckmaker was utter crap, as Gregz eloquently outlined here a few years back. Now, I finished that turd back in the day, and I dunno why, perhaps because I am glutton for punishment (among other things), I decided to play the sequel, which I picked up for cheap.

And oh boy, after about 20 hours, I have to declare, Wrath of the Nauseous might even be worse than Shitmaker 1. In fact, it's so bad, I will not even try to finish it, and instead do the smart thing and uninstall it.

Why do I hate it so much? Well, for one thing, Owlcat has learned literally nothing from Kingmaker. All the same exact shit that caused problems there is back, and in some cases even worse.

As early as the first chapter, when you are clearing Kenabres from the demons, and your fucking party is like level 3, and you barely have any shit or spells, half the fucking enemies apply permanent ability and stat drains. The Shadows with their stat drain. The rat swarms with their filth fever. Not to mention if someone dies and is resurrected, which already takes a high level resource to do, they get applied a negative level too, because in Russia this passes for fun. What kind of retard would think this is a good idea in a product meant for entertainment?

Some of this shit can be undone with rest, which brings me to my next point, the fucking "brilliance" behind corruption. See, these retards (much like the retards behind Pooplars of Eternity) decided that rest spamming is a bad idea in RPGs, so they introduced camping gear or rations, to limit the rests. Of course everybody normal hated this idea, because all it did is make rest more annoying. IE, everyone still rested the same, they just had to make more trips now in and out of dungeons, or play like misers (ooohh, i can't cast this spell now, cause I gotta save it for the boss, let me use a fucking crossbow on my wizard instead). So after all the complaints about rations, the Einsteins at Owlcat decided to replace it with .. corruption. Lol.

Where do these idiots even come from? Like who the fuck even cares about rest spamming? I played the Baldur's Gate saga, and the NWN games, and ToEE, and NetHack and other DnD games, and never had any issues with rest spamming. Because good games can balance the combat around other, more sensible stuff. Only autistic retards want massive attrition in their games, literally being barely able to use their weapons, and think that's fun. It's probably the people who play the same game 20 times, and then whine about how it's too easy. But why the fuck would you design your game around those kinds of people? If your game needs attrition to be fun, then your game is shit.

Then, speaking of unfun, there is the fucking endless buffing. This is the height of Owlcat combat design: every enemy has inflated stats, so the "challenge" of the combat system is not tactics, or anything interesting, it is to literally prebuff your fucking party 20 times with the cornucopia of consumable shit that the game showers you with. Who needs tactics when you can click on drink potion or cast scroll 20 times before each fight, that's WAY more fun. Well, I am no rocket scientist, but here is a fucking idea: if you remove stupid stat bloat from enemies, then you wouldn't need to prebuff 20 times, and then you also wouldn't be showered with a million useless pieces of trash in every container. Holy fuck, then you might actually spend your time in the game on doing something fun instead.

Oh, and of course, the woke writing. Two steps into the game and there is a lesbian marriage, cause that's the first thing that springs to mind in a fantasy world.

What's shocking to me is not that Owlcat games are such shit, but that there are actually people who like them. I guess it's the autistic segment of the population, I kinda get it, with the billion classes, subclasses, feats, skills, equipment, and so on, the theorycrafting can get pretty intense. But theorycrafting is not the game. The game is the combat (boring af), the writing (woke and boring af), the exploration (ruined by many of the terrible mechanics mentioned). And the game is utter shit.

Come at me, fanboys.
 

behold_a_man

Educated
Joined
Nov 26, 2022
Messages
222
Of course everybody normal hated this idea, because all it did is make rest more annoying.
Yes, Porky, everyone who disagrees with you is not normal.
"Rest spamming" is a "problem", as it usually removes a single dimension from strategic planning: resource management. If someone wants it to be a part of the game's challenge, well, it is expected he won't allow "rest spamming". Especially with the Vancian system, where you are expected to use a plethora of spells rather than a single spell every encounter.

Then, speaking of unfun, there is the fucking endless buffing. This is the height of Owlcat combat design: every enemy has inflated stats, so the "challenge" of the combat system is not tactics, or anything interesting, it is to literally prebuff your fucking party 20 times with the cornucopia of consumable shit that the game showers you with. Who needs tactics when you can click on drink potion or cast scroll 20 times before each fight, that's WAY more fun. Well, I am no rocket scientist, but here is a fucking idea: if you remove stupid stat bloat from enemies, then you wouldn't need to prebuff 20 times, and then you also wouldn't be showered with a million useless pieces of trash in every container. Holy fuck, then you might actually spend your time in the game on doing something fun instead.
I wonder, why did they allow players to change multiple things in difficulty settings. Maybe they had a reason...? If you want challenging combat with buffing, why don't you change the difficulty to harder? If you want the experience closer to pen-and-paper, well, there is a difficulty for it too.
Although, indeed, the lack of the ability to script certain things (including prebuffing) is woeful in myriads of games, including Pathfinder.
 

dukeofwoodberry

Educated
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Messages
516
I disagree about rest spamming. I think it makes the game more interesting to not be able to spam rests and be more strategic about spell usage. Otherwise it makes the game too easy. Why even limit spells if you you can freely rest with no consequence?

On pre buffing I agree. Man is that boring. And there is no convenient or quick way to do all your pre buffing. It's not interesting or engaging with the exception of planning out your builds. But after your builds are planned and you're playing the game, damn is all that pre buffing boring and tedious. That's why I prefer real turn based combat build from the ground up over RTwP
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
8,623
I have a feeling that a serious person could level much more pointed and valid criticisms at this game than "NO! LET ME REST SPAM!"
 

Lord_Potato

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
10,913
Location
Free City of Warsaw
You lost me at:
To quote the great Lilura,
Simping for a "girl" with a bad taste in games is pretty sad.

Some of this shit can be undone with rest, which brings me to my next point, the fucking "brilliance" behind corruption. See, these retards (much like the retards behind Pooplars of Eternity) decided that rest spamming is a bad idea in RPGs, so they introduced camping gear or rations, to limit the rests. Of course everybody normal hated this idea, because all it did is make rest more annoying. IE, everyone still rested the same, they just had to make more trips now in and out of dungeons, or play like misers (ooohh, i can't cast this spell now, cause I gotta save it for the boss, let me use a fucking crossbow on my wizard instead). So after all the complaints about rations, the Einsteins at Owlcat decided to replace it with .. corruption. Lol.

Where do these idiots even come from? Like who the fuck even cares about rest spamming? I played the Baldur's Gate saga, and the NWN games, and ToEE, and NetHack and other DnD games, and never had any issues with rest spamming. Because good games can balance the combat around other, more sensible stuff. Only autistic retards want massive attrition in their games, literally being barely able to use their weapons, and think that's fun. It's probably the people who play the same game 20 times, and then whine about how it's too easy. But why the fuck would you design your game around those kinds of people? If your game needs attrition to be fun, then your game is shit.
Allowing rest spamming is bad mechanics that makes resource management irrelevant.
Then, speaking of unfun, there is the fucking endless buffing. This is the height of Owlcat combat design: every enemy has inflated stats, so the "challenge" of the combat system is not tactics, or anything interesting, it is to literally prebuff your fucking party 20 times with the cornucopia of consumable shit that the game showers you with. Who needs tactics when you can click on drink potion or cast scroll 20 times before each fight, that's WAY more fun. Well, I am no rocket scientist, but here is a fucking idea: if you remove stupid stat bloat from enemies, then you wouldn't need to prebuff 20 times, and then you also wouldn't be showered with a million useless pieces of trash in every container. Holy fuck, then you might actually spend your time in the game on doing something fun instead.
It sounds like the game felt too difficult to you. Perhaps lower the difficulty? There are many options for that.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,392
I repeat, limiting rests with annoying, dumb mechanics like corruption (applying permanent stat debuffs during rest), or rations is a terrible idea. It's like one of those terrible ivory tower ideas academics come up with while being completely divorced from reality (like say Marxism). None of the DnD games in the past had this shit (e.g. Baldur's Gate, NWN 1/2, ToE, NetHack, Dark Sun, etc), and they were fine without it. Meanwhile, every modern RPG that incorporates it ends up being terrible (PoE, Shitmakers). Coincidence?

What the fuck does resource management have to do with RPGs anyway? You want to manage resources, play some strategy or building game. RPGs are about adventuring and exploration, who the fuck wants to crawl along like a miser and constantly have to manage how little of your abilities you should be using? The challenge in tactical RPGs shouldn't come from that, it should come from (shocking gasp) TACTICS! Which, not surprisingly, Shitmakers have almost none of.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,806
Location
The Satellite Of Love
They both kind of suck but I liked WOTR a bit more than Kingmaker just because KM got so dull as soon as you become the baron/baronness. I couldn't make it to the end of either of them though, the encounters are just so crap. Mow through every trash mob without thinking, use the obvious pre-buffs for anything else. zzzZzzZZzzZz. They made a mistake putting turn-based mode in because it conclusively proves that RTWP is inane shit for children - as soon as you go TB, you can really see how mindless the game is, how shit and repetitive the battles are.

Writing wasn't up to much in either of them, the only companion I can even remember liking from either game is Valerie, and that's only because I sang the chorus to Valerie by Steve Winwood literally every time she appeared on screen, and made her my chief advisor or whatever and then annoyed her by turning down all her weird Lawful Fascist ideas. Seelah was okay too, like a golden retriever in human form. I liked to cast Enlarge Person on her and watch as Big Seelah steamrolled the enemy forces.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,392
Another guy who failed to kill the water elemental.

Typical tard defense, someone points out flaws with a game they like, they immediately curl up in their comfy "get gud" shell. Unfortunately for you, I actually did kill him, and the funny thing was, for killing a minor boss in the prologue, there is an achievement if you do it on Core or above difficulty, and only 7.8% of players got it. Lol, that's how retarded the game is, Core difficulty is only for elite players. I still remember when DnD games were sane and Core meant PnP ruleset.
 

Gargaune

Arcane
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,623
I have no idea how WotR is and I'm not about to find out since Owlcat's business practices landed them on my shit list, but Kingmaker was fucking excellent. Addressing the OP, the plot unfolded wonderfully from a mundane intrigue to an epic denouement, temporary level drain is a walk in the park compared to permanent XP loss, camping rations worked in concert with the overland map in a way that Sawyer could only dream of, and the combat was balanced such that it actually required you to use your resources regularly rather than letting them collect dust until a boss encounter.

Now, I finished that turd back in the day, and I dunno why, perhaps because I am glutton for punishment (among other things), I decided to play the sequel, which I picked up for cheap.
You do realise that's worse than the typical Codex stereotype of playing it for 200 hours and calling it shit, right? I mean, according to you, you go to McDonalds and someone serves you a human turd between two buns, and not only do you scarf it down to the last bite but you go back for seconds?
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
7,373
Now that I had finished Rogue Trader I figured I might as well try pozfinder. Holy shit has the character design and writing gone down hill since kangmaker. About as bad as Balldo's Gate 3. You have to be some serious build autism enjoyer to outweigh all the cringe dialogue.
 

Peacefriend

Novice
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
39
Aside from making a joke of game mechanics which depend on resting, rest spamming is also bad for the change in feel it produces, it makes the game feel like some arcade game.
I definitely enjoy such games more that handle resting in a way that makes you put some thought into when and how.
Curious Expedition comes to mind especially.
 
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
2,863
Location
The Present
"To quote the great Lilura"
Imagine speaking or thinking like this, unironically. :negative:

Buffing isn't that necessary in Wrath unless you're playing above Core difficulty. Even on hard, it's not mandatory. For the price of 30 seconds you can get all of the long-lasting and reasonable buffs up for the large maps. This is generally why I don't play above Hard because (linear) D20 systems already struggle at both ends of their range. Unfair just makes the system tedious and even less elegant. There will still be enough challenge on Core for even the experienced player, at least until the demon city. Then it kind of becomes autopilot no matter your skill or mythic path. The game is about power fantasy, so whatever. That's when the player gets to relish it.

Wrath is a reasonably good game. No one accused it of perfection. Definitely worth a play for anyone who likes the RPG genre. There is a lot of good in there, with some really fun quests and combat. Its biggest failings are the D20 system itself, because the adventure path pushes it outside of its extremes for all but the first 1/4 of the game. Most everything at Drezen or before is a suitable challenge, it's just a challenge. The adventure path is designed for holy warrior types, and parties deficient in that will struggle for a bit. That only helps improve the sense that the player is repelling the abyssal horde. The World Wound isn't for tourists.
 

smaug

Secular Koranism with Israeli Characteristics
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
7,074
Location
Texas
Insert Title Here
if they would have just made BG with all the improvements to the engine and updated ruleset, the game would have been a bonified classic on the codex lol

what a wasted opportunity
 
Self-Ejected

Atlet

Self-Ejected
Vatnik
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
1,613
Just use the mod for buffing automatically and play it on RTwP, on the hardest difficulty bellow insane — it will be harder, more enjoyable and the micromanagement is highly tactical. Or play on core but iron mode.
 

Funposter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,818
Location
Australia
Screen_Shot_2020-07-24_at_11.33.38_AM.jpg
 

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