World of Whorecraft: Battle for Asseroth

[Metro]

Assassination Rogue before Outlaw? Simcraft preficted pretty much the opposite and i also dont see many Assa-Rogues in any mythic groups.

Seari: You can negate much of the random effect by using your procs efficiently. I am mostly on top of the damage charts wether or not my procs are perfect.

Guessing that chart is measuring single target damage. Reason you see Outlaw over Assassination in Mythics is because Outlaw has far better AoE damage.

 

[Doktor Best]

You can negate much of the random effect by using your procs efficiently.

What's that even supposed to mean?

Many Outlaws stubbornly reapply RTB until they have 2 buffs up, but this leads to a very unstable damage output. In heavy damage phases, especially when you use burst cooldowns, its much more reliable to settle for one good buff and just go with it.

Also in some cases it can be more efficient to settle for one buff outside of burst phases for example to synchronize your adrenaline rush and curse of the dreadblades cooldowns.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748968342

Here is a good indepth guide that also explains the RTB-buff priorities in different situations a bit.

I mean Outlaw is still RNG, but there are and were several other classes that relied on it, most prominently the good old firemage.

@Discussion: If you cant stand mindless pug-grind, just play a difficulty where this is not possible and get some friends. The mmog part of WOW starts at exactly that phase, and thats also where (for me atleast) the fun starts.

And yes finding some good players that are not acting like complete fucktards is like finding the famous needle in the haystack, but its possible.

 

[abija]

How can you use the term reliable with a random buff? Stop throwing words around like you're on E3 stage. Random skill that considerably changes output is just dumb design (or intentionally evil).
And the fact that other specs had awful design at some period in time is completely irrelevant.

Actually most rotations this expansion are some overdesigned pieces of shit that don't even end up rewarding because of obligatory rng mechanics. Outlaw just took that extra step to make it feel like playing hearthstone.

And on a slightly different subject, all alts you level will need to do same 5 fucking questlines, even though they cover probably less than 30% of the leveling content. The only different thing will be the few order hall, artifact quests.

 

[Doktor Best]

How can you use the term reliable with a random buff? Stop throwing words around like you're on E3 stage. Random skill that considerably changes output is just dumb design (or intentionally evil).
And the fact that other specs had awful design at some period in time is completely irrelevant.

Many Outlaws stubbornly reapply RTB until they have 2 buffs up, but this leads to a very unstable damage output. In heavy damage phases, especially when you use burst cooldowns, its much more reliable to settle for one good buff and just go with it.

I marked the part where your reading comprehension failed. And only because you dont like a certain playstyle doesnt mean its bad or dumb or anything. RNG is inherent to roleplaygames since the birth of this genre, or we wouldnt need dice for pen and paper. I could also say that youre too autistic to play a spec that is fluctuating in perfomance because you are too afraid to fall behind.

Firemage was a fun spec in earlier expansions, i raided quite some time with it. I always thought it got across that feeling of setting things on fire and watching them burn. It was powerful but unstable and i was fine with it. Whenever i needed more reliable damag output i just went with another specc. The same thing applies to rogues now. If you dont want rng, then simply go for assassination and quit whining.

Actually most rotations this expansion are some overdesigned pieces of shit that don't even end up rewarding because of obligatory rng mechanics. Outlaw just took that extra step to make it feel like playing hearthstone.

Now i gotta ask, what the heck is "overdesigned" supposed to mean? In my opinion most specs are more down to earth and basic compared to earlier expansions, which were just overloaded with tons of abilities.

And on a slightly different subject, all alts you level will need to do same 5 fucking questlines, even though they cover probably less than 30% of the leveling content. The only different thing will be the few order hall, artifact quests.

I agree on that. Twinking will be a pain in the arse this expansion and i am not too sure how to feel about the fact that you have to commit to one sole spec for keeping your potencial. But i dont really have the time for a twink this time around i think.

 

[Metro]

How can you use the term reliable with a random buff? Stop throwing words around like you're on E3 stage. Random skill that considerably changes output is just dumb design (or intentionally evil).
And the fact that other specs had awful design at some period in time is completely irrelevant.

Actually most rotations this expansion are some overdesigned pieces of shit that don't even end up rewarding because of obligatory rng mechanics. Outlaw just took that extra step to make it feel like playing hearthstone.

And on a slightly different subject, all alts you level will need to do same 5 fucking questlines, even though they cover probably less than 30% of the leveling content. The only different thing will be the few order hall, artifact quests.

You're overthinking it. The net result is Outlaw Rogues still have competitive damage output even with the RNG. Ultimately it doesn't matter. They changed the RTB buff (Jolly Roger, I think) that returned health and replaced it with another DPS booster.

 

[abija]

"Overdesigned" means too many cooldowns, buffs/debuffs, procs. You can't muscle memory anything and you need a bunch of status trackers in the middle of your screen to execute it. Bonus points if executing the rotation perfect can be surpased by a bunch of chain procs.

Metro: not overthinking it at all, 10-20% dps difference can happen easily based on rolls. In short dungeon fights it can get way more retarded.

 

[Echo Mirage]

Patch notes for the next reset.

Death Knight

• Frost
o Remorseless Winter damage increased by 50%.
o Obliterate damage increased by 19%.
o Frost Strike damage increased by 12%.
o Howling Blast damage increased by 10%.
o Frostscythe (Talent) damage increased by 13%.
o Frozen Pulse (Talent) damage increased by 11%.
o Breath of Sindragosa (Talent) damage increased by 17%.

Demon Hunter

• Havoc
o Throw Glaive damage reduced by 30%.
o Fel Mastery (Talent) damage bonus to Fel Rush reduced to 30%.
o Bloodlet (Talent) now deals 100% of initial Throw Glaive damage.
o Fury of the Illidari (Artifact Ability) damage reduced by 20%.

o Balanced Blades (Artifact Trait) damage bonus to Blade Dance reduced to 3% per target.

• Vengeance
o Mastery now provides 50% less damage reduction per point.
o Demon Spikes damage reduction increased to 20%.


Druid

o Moonfire (non-Feral) damage increased by 10%.

• Balance
o Sunfire damage increased by 10%.
o Starfall damage increased by 10%.
o Lunar Strike damage increased by 5%.
o Solar Wrath damage increased by 5%.

Mage

• Arcane
o Mastery effects increased by 20%.
o Arcane Missiles damage increased by 9%.
o Arcane Blast damage increased by 10%.

• Frost
o Frostbolt damage increased by 8%.
o Ice Lance damage increased by 13%.
o Flurry damage increased by 38%.
o Blizzard damage increased by 36%, and mana cost reduced by 50%.
o Splitting Ice (Talent) now causes 80% of normal damage (up from 50%).
o Ice Nova (Talent) damage increased by 13%.
o Ray of Frost (Talent) damage increased by 28%.
o Glacial Spike (Talent) damage increased by 15%.

Hunter

o Barrage (non-Survival) damage reduced by 20%.

• Beast Mastery
o Bestial Wrath damage bonus increased to 25%.

• Survival
o Flanking Strike damage increased by 62%.

Monk

• Mistweaver
o Spinning Crane Kick (Mistweaver) damage reduced by 25%.

Paladin

• Retribution
o Templar’s Verdict damage increased by 10%.
o Divine Storm damage increased by 20%.
o Crusader Strike (Retribution) damage increased by 13%.
o Blade of Justice damage increased by 13%.
o Judgment (Retribution) damage increased by 13%.
o Zeal (Talent) damage increased by 13%.
o Blade of Wrath (Talent) damage increased by 13%.

Priest

• Holy
o Holy Nova damage reduced by 16%.

• Shadow
o Mind Sear damage and Insanity generation increased by 50%.
o Voidform stacks no longer increase while Dispersion and Void Torrent are active.

o The benefit of Mass Hysteria (Artifact Trait) is now capped at 100%.

Rogue

o Death From Above (Talent) area damage increased by 100%.

• Assassination
o Deadly Poison damage increased by 30%.
o Fan of Knives damage increased by 30%.
o Bag of Tricks (Artifact Trait) duration reduced to 3 seconds (overall damage unchanged), radius increased to 6 yards (from 3), and now benefits from Mastery.
o Poison Knives (Artifact Trait) no longer benefits twitch from Mastery. Damage per point increased to 4%.

• Outlaw
o Fatebringer (Artifact Trait) Energy cost reduction reduced to 3 per rank.
o Fate’s Thirst (Artifact Trait) damage bonus to Run Through reduced to 6% per rank.
o Black Powder (Artifact Trait) damage bonus to Between the Eyes reduced to 6% per rank.

• Subtlelty
o Eviscerate damage increased by 15%.
o Nightblade damage increased by 15%.

o Shuriken Storm damage increased by 30%.
o Second Shuriken (Artifact Trait) chance to activate increased to 30% (was 10%), damage increased by 30%, and now deals 200% additional damage while Stealth or Shadow Dance is active.

Shaman

• Elemental
o Mastery effects increased by 12.5%.
o Chain Lightning Maelstrom generation increased to 6.
o Lightning Bolt (Elemental) damage increased by 23%.
o Chain Lightning (Elemental) damage increased by 23%.
o Lava Burst damage increased by 5%.
o Storm Elemental (Talent)’s Call Lightning and Wind Gust damage increased by 20%.

• Enhancement
o Fixed a bug that gave offhand special attacks a 100% chance to activate Windfury while Doom Winds was active.
o Windfury activation chance increased to 20%.

• Restoration
o Chain Lightning (Restoration) damage increased by 23%.

Warlock

• Affliction
o Drain Life damage increased by 10%
o Drain Soul damage increased by 10%
o Corruption damage increased by 10%
o Agony damage increased by 5%
o Unstable Affliction damage increased by 15%
o Seed of Corruption damage increased by 15%
o Siphon Life (Talent) damage increased by 10%
o Haunt (Talent) damage increased by 15%
o Phantom Singularity (Talent) damage increased by 15%

• Demonology
o Hand of Gul’dan impact damage increased by 20%
o Demonwrath damage increased by 15%
o Shadowbolt damage increased by 10%
o Doom damage increased by 10%
o Wild Imps damage increased by 10%
o Dreadstalker attack power increased by 10%
o Felguard attack power increased by 10%
o Doomguard (Demonology)’s Doom Bolt damage increased by 18%
o Demonbolt (Talent) damage increased by 10%
o Implosion (Talent) damage increased by 15%
o Shadowflame (Talent) damage increased by 10%
o Darkglare (Talent) damage increased by 10%

• Destruction
o Chaos Bolt damage increased by 11%
o Incinerate damage increased by 11%
o Immolate damage increased by 11%
o Conflagrate damage increased by 11%
o Rain of Fire damage increased by 11%, and cast time removed
o Cataclysm (Talent) damage increased by 11%
o Channel Demonfire (Talent) damage increased by 11%

Warrior

• Arms
o Exploit the Weakness (Artifact Trait) bonus reduced to 3% per point.
o Focused Rage (Talent) damage bonus reduced to 30%.

• Protection
o Vengeance (Talent) Rage cost reduction reduced to 35%.
o Intercept Rage generation reduced to 10.
o Shield Slam Rage generation reduced to 10.

Warlocks are looking good, but not great. Havoc Demon hunters are taking a massive hit from the nerf bat across the board.

 

[Wulfstand]

I'm wondering if the changes will affect at all Frost DK's current situation. From what I've read, the spec's main weakness is it's single target damage, as well as the botched artifact abilities, whereas most of what's being buffet has to do with aoe/cleaving. This feels more like they're toying with the numbers, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Echo Mirage]

No, not really. If they go live with these buffs the way they currently are Frost is still at, or near the bottom of the heap when it comes to DPS. I can also say from first hand experience that the natural cleaving of the Frost spec is a massive pain when it comes to dungeon runs. The eye of Azhara with its hordes of trash goes from being tricky to a nightmare.

 

[Metro]

Stop playing shitty melee classes with no utility. Problem solved.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

 

[Caim]

Black Temple for life.

Until you aggro too many of them and they start mind controlling your ass.

 

[Metro]

First week, Tons of new content to explore, new factions, new quests, new dungeons, etc bummed out there's no flying but no big deal you're still leveling.

Second Week, level 110, Heroics, world quests, interesting rewards, cool lore, leveling professions. Finding the terrain annoying as you can't fly but always find yourself on the wrong side of a mountain or cliff.

Thrid Week, mythic dungeons seem unrewarding, world quests starting to get monotonous, still no legendary drop, reached revered with all factions after purchasing pets, found no more reason to grind. World quests introduce world bosses great idea, poor reward incentive. Realize your profession is mediocre and unrewarding as it use to be, as well as finding yourself at 778 with nothing else to make because everything has gone to green. Flying really starting to become an issue as you constantly find yourself being dismounted by adds as you attempt to traverse the terrible geography to your next world quest.

Fourth Week
LFR found to be pointless, world quests never changing, the wait to develop your class hall really begins to show its slowness, artifact power leveling is over 50k and your realize having an alt would be pointless. RNG really starts to weigh on you as you still haven't had a legendary drop and versitility seems to be on your dps gear and your class can hardly pull 150k in raids making you worthless. Flying is no longer important as you avoid most world quests now and use your whistle when you need to, or have your hearth set to Suramar cause well really what else is there to do. Slowly come to the conclusion you did the second month of WoD and unsub.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749246649?page=1

 

[Metro]

I don't get the complaints, though. For $40-50ish you're getting the same amount of content most single player games have these days. Beyond that does anyone actually use money to pay for subs, anymore? I know the Jew-ro prices are sky high but US it's only around 30,000 gold for a token and that's not very hard to get simply playing the game and doing some dailies. Also keeping in mind it's pointless to stay subbed perpetually. You play a month or two each expansion/content patch.

 

[Doktor Best]

First week, Tons of new content to explore, new factions, new quests, new dungeons, etc bummed out there's no flying but no big deal you're still leveling.

Second Week, level 110, Heroics, world quests, interesting rewards, cool lore, leveling professions. Finding the terrain annoying as you can't fly but always find yourself on the wrong side of a mountain or cliff.

Thrid Week, mythic dungeons seem unrewarding, world quests starting to get monotonous, still no legendary drop, reached revered with all factions after purchasing pets, found no more reason to grind. World quests introduce world bosses great idea, poor reward incentive. Realize your profession is mediocre and unrewarding as it use to be, as well as finding yourself at 778 with nothing else to make because everything has gone to green. Flying really starting to become an issue as you constantly find yourself being dismounted by adds as you attempt to traverse the terrible geography to your next world quest.

Fourth Week
LFR found to be pointless, world quests never changing, the wait to develop your class hall really begins to show its slowness, artifact power leveling is over 50k and your realize having an alt would be pointless. RNG really starts to weigh on you as you still haven't had a legendary drop and versitility seems to be on your dps gear and your class can hardly pull 150k in raids making you worthless. Flying is no longer important as you avoid most world quests now and use your whistle when you need to, or have your hearth set to Suramar cause well really what else is there to do. Slowly come to the conclusion you did the second month of WoD and unsub.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749246649?page=1

Oh look, a flymount crybaby. "boobooboo i have to navigate the landscape instead of flying over it completely ignoring everything but my quest compass". Fuck off please. What hes right on though is the problem that Ap hinders respeccing and twinking.They wanted players to commit to one class and one specc and it has its advantages, but its also restricting. LFR was always pointless, just dont go in there. Not pulling damage in raids just means you suck at the game.

 

[SerratedBiz]

FWIW, you earn Artifact Power boosters as you develop your main spec. I haven't been playing long or hard but I already have more than a 200% boost to AP earned, which makes leveling artifacts on secondary specs less of a hassle.

You are still gimped, tho, as leveling an off-spec is always worse than strengthening your main one.

 

[Metro]

Just my experience on the PTR but, yes, artifact power seems like a massive (and unnecessarily implemented) grind. I know you get boosts as the expansion goes on but still... the wall is pretty steep once you unlock around 50% of the talents. The concept is fine but they shouldn't have made it into an additional leveling system past reaching 110 and gearing up. There has to be a better way of designing it possibly giving your offspec artifact power pool a percentage of the points you sink into your main spec one. It's particularly annoying for pure DPS classes. For example: If I know I want to play a resto druid it's a no-brainer I'm going to sink all of my AP into the resto artifact with maybe a week's worth of world quest items going into an offspec for outdoor stuff or whatever. If I'm a rogue or a mage or a hunter (ignoring for a moment that some of those classes have clear-cut 'winners' in terms of damage output) what do I do when the 'best' damage spec changes based on gearing, content, patch changes? Get fucked unless they somehow refund the points which seems unlikely because there's no general character artifact pool. The points go from the token things to your spec pool.

And then what if you want to play an alt or two? Same problem all over again. IMO, it's a terrible way of creating obvious barriers to player power levels. They apparently want the artifact tree to take the entire expansion to fill out. I'm glad I did not cave in to a $40 Amazon pre-purchase. Since I don't know anyone who regularly plays I'd be limited to world quests and heroics and those get boring after two or three weeks.

 

[Metro]

Also want to add the way they've seeded the world with treasures/artifact tokens even if you want to main a healer or tank it's a pretty bad idea to level as such in dungeons. A random dungeon probably takes 20 or so minutes and gives you some paltry 30 ap token. Maybe you get one or two more from bosses but that's it. Meanwhile in questing you'll find half a dozen or so 10-30 ap tokens in ten minutes of opening chests. Then you get the big 100+ ones for completing various quests. Healers and tanks are better off getting their DPS artifact first, power it up a bit for questing, and then grabbing their main spec artifact at 72 and dumping the subsequent ap into that.

 

[Cromwell]

Just my experience on the PTR but, yes, artifact power seems like a massive (and unnecessarily implemented) grind. I know you get boosts as the expansion goes on but still... the wall is pretty steep once you unlock around 50% of the talents. The concept is fine but they shouldn't have made it into an additional leveling system past reaching 110 and gearing up. There has to be a better way of designing it possibly giving your offspec artifact power pool a percentage of the points you sink into your main spec one. It's particularly annoying for pure DPS classes. For example: If I know I want to play a resto druid it's a no-brainer I'm going to sink all of my AP into the resto artifact with maybe a week's worth of world quest items going into an offspec for outdoor stuff or whatever. If I'm a rogue or a mage or a hunter (ignoring for a moment that some of those classes have clear-cut 'winners' in terms of damage output) what do I do when the 'best' damage spec changes based on gearing, content, patch changes? Get fucked unless they somehow refund the points which seems unlikely because there's no general character artifact pool. The points go from the token things to your spec pool.

And then what if you want to play an alt or two? Same problem all over again. IMO, it's a terrible way of creating obvious barriers to player power levels. They apparently want the artifact tree to take the entire expansion to fill out. I'm glad I did not cave in to a $40 Amazon pre-purchase. Since I don't know anyone who regularly plays I'd be limited to world quests and heroics and those get boring after two or three weeks.

The retarded thing about all this is that they implemented dual specc to avoid exactly this problem. People were crying left and right that they had to respecc for raids, or pvp, that they couldnt play however they wanted because not every specc was useful in group content (for the hybrids). So everything got more or less streamlined starting with buffs and nerfs, dual specc, the retard safe skill trees and finally the ability to spec whatever youw ant almost whenever you want. After all that they thought it was a good Idea to nail people back into one specc untill they grinded to have every artifact fully powered.

That seems equivalent to having to grind every skillpoint in the previous addons again after respecc until you ahve enough to skill all three trees.

 

[Metro]

Good analogy since most of the weapon talents are the generic +X% to Y skill that comprised the old talent trees. And some of the artifact have some fairly crappy talents. The Holy Paladin one has a bunch that buff blessings which seem borderline useless from a PvE perspective. Are Blessing of Sacrifice and Protection used in raiding?

 

[Cyberarmy]

People were crying left and right that they had to respecc for raids, or pvp, that they couldnt play however they wanted because not every specc was useful in group content (for the hybrids)

Those were the days...

 

[abija]

Healers and tanks are better off getting their DPS artifact first, power it up a bit for questing, and then grabbing their main spec artifact at 72 and dumping the subsequent ap into that.

Tanks are like a cheat for questing and regardless of spec it's a terrible idea to level in dungeons since you have to complete a chain in every zone.

Blessing of sacrifice is very good, protection situational. But artifact "talents" and even actual talents are overall pretty boring.

 

[Zetor]

My warrior leveled way faster as arms than prot... and was never in any danger of dying (except for the obligatory ganks by bored 110s). Set the prot vyrkul as companion, round up 6+ enemies on mount, battlecry/artifact ability/bladestorm while the companion pops challenging shout, whirlwind/cleave any survivors and maybe pop DBTS if shit hits the fan. Victory Rush to regain lost hp - though second wind will take care of that anyway - and work on other quest objectives and/or single tough mobs until the ICD of the vyrkul is up again. Rinse repeat, most quests are done in 2 <10-sec pulls or even a single pull if mob density is good enough.

Leveling alternate artifacts is probably only going to be reasonably costed when people start unlocking artifact knowledge 10 or so... p. good ploy for keeping people subbed, btw.

 

[Metro]

Healers and tanks are better off getting their DPS artifact first, power it up a bit for questing, and then grabbing their main spec artifact at 72 and dumping the subsequent ap into that.

Tanks are like a cheat for questing and regardless of spec it's a terrible idea to level in dungeons since you have to complete a chain in every zone.

That was my point. The forced questing is a bad idea. Granted leveling in dungeons was sub par in WoD but now it's terrible considering how inefficient it is in gaining artifact power. They make a big deal out of 'class fantasy' but then design the expansion such that people should ignore their chosen roles almost entirely until level cap. And while it doesn't take long it's laughable when they went to the trouble of designing all of those different spec scenarios to get your weapon where the healers heal groups of people but... you probably aren't going to be doing that again for the next 15-20 hours of game time as you level in DPS spec.

 

[Metro]

Was looking at some info on the Artifact fishing pole which you apparently level up by catching fish. Found this tidbit:

Correct, it takes 5526 rare fish total to max your artifact.

World of Grindcraft. While I enjoy the fact they're pushing the story of Warcraft forward (it's been a few expansions of side-stuff with Pandaria and Fake Draenor) I think all that writing and polish only provides a thin facade to the underlying gameplay which is arguably more flawed than ever. Another example is archeology where instead of randomly getting the rare/epic solves to pop up they are now weekly quests. On the one hand you could say this is better because it perhaps relies less on RNG, on the other it stretches things out so you're only going to get four shots at a rare solve during one month's subscription period. Were the odds more remote the old way? Sure, but at least if you wanted to dedicate the greater portion of your game time to archeology it might pay off but now it's gated. The main professions seem similarly lack luster. A lot of engineering quests seem to require dungeons runs. Never mind the fact that 99% of the engineering items are even trashier than previous expansions. A bandage gun that heals for like 120k (roughly 10% of someone's health in ilevel 820ish gear)? Some shitty backpack that shakes you around for ten seconds?