World of Whorecraft: Battle for Asseroth

[Sulimo]

Was definitely enjoyable back then but not sustainable. Doing 5 man pre-nerf Straholme took around an hour or two PER SIDE. A full clear of Scholomance probably took around two hours or more. I miss the requirement of CC in dungeons, though. Made playing DPS fun as you had to do something other than simply attack a mob. There was a little bit of finesse and strategy required.

Pre-nerf TBC heroics were the pinnacle of challenging five mans. Shadow Labyrinth was my favorite. Wrath heroics were more aesthetically pleasing and fun but not as challenging.

All of those are fair points, but the horribleness of it all had a quint sort of charm that has been lost along the way. That moment you finally found a healer who could heal and shackle and dispel all at the same time, you know that fellow was going on your friend list and you'd invite him to every dungeon you ever went to. When you finally found that hunter who didn't roll need on two handed swords and pulled off some slick freezing traps, you knew life was good. Now you just select four random anonymous people from a list and hope their item level is high enough to offset how awfully they're playing.

And then, after weeks of practice with the same 5-man group, you could get those 2 hour runs down to an hour and 15 minutes, because everybody fucking knew what the fuck they were doing and to kill the bloody eyes of Naxxramas before they could alert half the instance to your presence.
(edit: wasn't that a goal to upgrade tier 0 btw? I'm pretty sure I did a few runs where you had to finish Strat undead in 50 minutes or something insane like that)
Edit 2: Found it! It was 45 minutes. Click spoilers if you're in a nostalgic mood, found a guide.

Spoiler

Upgrade Quests

Before I post this guide. I want to say this quest chain is insane. I did it on 1 of my warriors, just to get the belt and bracers (belt is +7def, so its worth it for premc gear) I woulnt bother with the rest, unless you have alot of time and money to waste. Having said that, if you try it .. GOOD LUCK!

Upgrade 1 - Wrists

The first upgrade that you can get is to your set wrist piece. You get them through a quest called An Earnest Proposition. The quest is different depending if you are Alliance or Horde. This initial upgrade is fairly weak though and just needed as a stepping stone to further upgrades.

Horde: If you are Horde you get this quest from Movkar in the throne room in Orgrimmar. The quest has you travel to Silithus to collect venom from the spiders and scorpions located just south of town. Once you have collected enough venom you can travel back to Orgrimmar and hand in the venom, 20 gold and your tier 0 wrist piece. Your wrist piece will be returned to you upgraded.

Alliance: If you are Alliance you get this quest from Deliana in the throne room in Ironforge. The quest has you travel to Winterspring to collect blood from the bears and frost sabers. Once you have collected enough blood you can travel back to Ironforge and hand in the blood, 20 gold and your tier 0 wrist piece. Your wrist piece will be returned to you upgraded.

Upgrade 2 - Waist and Hands

The next pieces to be upgraded are the belt and gloves. They are upgraded by a quest chain that starts with the quest "A supernatural device" and ends with a quest called "Just Compensation". The steps that make it up are as follows:

Your main quest NPC (as described for your faction above) will have you travel to Mux Manascrambler in Tanaris. He is found in the city of Gadgetzan. Your quest NPC will ask you to take you blood or venom to him for further instructions.


Mux says that he will help you but you must collect the following for him:
- 25 Volcanic Ash (These can be found in the Burning Steppes around lava pools)
- 10 Stonescale Oil (Produced by Alchemists)
- 1 Delicate Arcanite Converter (Produced by Engineers)
- 4 Greater Eternal Essence (Produced by Enchanters)
- 40 gold


Mux will now give you an Ectoplasmic Distiller and ask you to collect ectoplasm from several types of ghosts around Azeroth. The ones you need to kill are as follows:

- 12 Scorched Ectoplasm (Found by killing undead in Silithus)
- 12 Frozen Ectoplasm (Found by killing undead in Winterspring)
- 12 Stable Ectoplasm (Found by killing undead in Eastern Plaguelands)


Once you return to Mux he asks that you kill Magma Lord Bokk who is found in the Burning Steppes, obtain his Magma Core and then return to Mux.


Next on Mux's list is to obtain a Fel Rod (costs 50g from Vi'el in Winterspring) and then return to him. He will then provide you with a Extra-Dimensional Ghost Revealer. Vi'el is located south of the town in Winterspring in the Demon area. Follow the road across the bridge and pass by the first two demon guards. He is in a cave located up the mountain side just past the guards, if you enter a cave down the road you have gone too far.


Return to your factions quest NPC with the Extra-Dimensional Ghost Revealer and your tier 0 gloves and belt. You will be rewarded with your tier 0.5 gloves and belt and the quest that starts the chain for your shoulders, feet and legs.

Upgrade 3 - Shoulders, Feet and Legs

For the next quest you are sent to use the Extra-Dimensional Ghost Revealer near the entrance to Stratholme (near the meeting stone). The ghost of Anthion Harmon will appear, speak to him to gain the next part of the quest chain.


Anthion gives you the quest "Dead Man's Plea" and asks you to enter Stratholme and kill Baron Rivendare to rescue Ysida Harmon. To complete this you must enter Undead Stratholme and at least start the fight with the Baron within 45 minutes of starting the first pull. When kill the Baron you can get Ysida's satchel.


Return to Anthion to hand in the quest. He requests additional items to complete the next portion of the quest chain, they are:
- 3 Dark iron bars (Produced by Miners)
- 3 Mooncloth (Produced by Tailors)
- 20 Enchanted Leather (Produced by Enchanters)
- 4 Cured Rugged Hide (Produced by Leatherworkers)


When you return the items to Anthion he sends you to Falrin Treeshaper in the Dire Maul Library for the next part in the chain.


Gather Ogre Warbeads from the Ogres in Dire Maul or Blackrock Spire. Once you have collected 25 you can return to Fallrin in the Library.

Falrin now sends you to collect the following:

- 4 Dark Runes
- 8 Large Brilliant Shards (Produced by Enchanters)
- 1 Jeering Specter's Essence (Drops from ghosts located in DM west)


Falrin rewards you with a banner to take to Blackrock Depths and start the "The Challenge" question. You must fight your way to the arena and clear it and then start a scripted sequence by using the banner. Your objective is to kill Theldren's army and retrieve the top piece of a neckpiece. Once the banner is placed a group of 5 MOBs will emerge that you must defeat.

The leader of the 5 MOBs is Theldren a dwarf warrior. The other members of the group will be semi random but will generally have at least a rogue, a mage and then two others. You need to kill at least two quickly with AoE and preferably three or this will be a hard fight.


You can now return to Anthion at Stratholme. He provides your next quest in the chain.


This quest, called "Anthion's Parting Words" is very simple, just return to Orgrimmar or Ironforge (depending on your faction) with your tier 0 pants, shoulders and boots. They will upgraded to the tier 0.5 equivalents and you will be given the quest that starts the next chain.

Upgrade 4 - Head and Chest

Your quest NPC will next have you travel to Blackrock Mountain to speak to a ghost named Bodley with the quest called "Bodley's Unfortunate Fate". You can find him just outside of the Blackrock Spire entrance. Bodley is the ghost of a gnome mage.


Bodley wants you to kill "Three Kings of Flame" and gather items that they drop. He also needs a Hallowed Brazier from the Argent Dawn. You must collect the following items and then return to him. He will then provide you with the Brazier of Beckoning.

- Incedicite of Incendius (Incendious is found in Blackrock Depths)
- Ember of Emberseer (Emberseer is found in Upper Blackrock Spire)
- Cinder of Cynders (The Duke of Cynders is found in Silithus)
- Hallowed Brazier (Bought for 120g from the Argent Dawn Quartermaster, requires Honored reputation)


The next part of the quest chain is to obtain the Left piece of Lord Valthalak's amulet. Depending on your faction it can be found in different places.

Horde - If you a Horde player Bodley sends you to summon the spirit of Isalien in Dire Maul east. The Spirit can only be summoned in Alzzin's Chamber. You can then get the left portion of the amulet and return to Bodley.

Alliance - If you are an Alliance player your next task is to obtain the left piece of Lord Valthalak's Amulet from Jarien and Sothos. However before you can summon them Bodley needs you to retrieve a brilliant sword of Zealotry from the praetorians in Tyr's Hand in the Eastern Plaguelands. Find the sword and return to Bodley. Now that you have the sword and brazier you can summon Jarien and Sothos and slay them. To do this you must travel to the room they were killed in. The room is the last room in Scarlet Stratholme where you fight the Grand Crusader. You must kill the Grand Crusader and then use the brazier to summon them. Once you have defeated them you can then loot the left piece of Lord Valthalak's Amulet and return to Bodley.


In the quest "I See Alcaz Island In Your Future..." Bodley wants you to collect 20 Bloodkelp and return it to him. It can be found by killing the Strashaz Nagas on the Alcaz island off the coast of Dustwallow Marsh.


The next step of the quest is different depending on your faction.

Alliance - Next on Bodleys shopping list if you are Alliance is a Starbreeze village relic. You can obtain this from the Frostmaul giants in southern Winterspring.

Horde - Next on Bodleys shopping list if you are Horde is soul ashes of the banished. You can obtain this from the ghosts located on Purgation Isle in the south-west of Hillsbrad Foothills. There are three types that appear to drop this item Condemned Monks, Writhing Mages and Cursed Paladins


The next quest is to obtain the right piece of the amulet and is again dependant on your faction.

Horde - If you are a horde player you must obtain an extra item for Bodley. The item that Bodley needs you to retrieve are Drudical Remains. These can be found by killing the MOBs in Hive'Regal in Silithus. Once you have this item return to Bodley and he will send you to Lower Blackrock Spire to kill Mor Grayhoof. You can summon him in Warmaster Voone's chamber.

Alliance - For the Alliance you must summon Kormok. You can only summon him in Ras Frostwhispers room in Scholomance.


Once you return to Bodley he needs you to collect bracers from the Orcs in Blackrock Spire. They drop from Orcs in UBRS and LBRS, although the drop rate seems higher in the upper instance. Once you have gathered the required bracers (which will require a few runs) and obtained a Flask of Supreme Power (Produced by Alchemists) you can return to Bodley.


Bodley will now provide you with a means to summon Lord Valethak. You can only summon him in the Beasts room in upper Blackrock Spire. Clear to there and then summon and kill Lord Valethak. You must speak to the spirit of Lord Valethak once you have killed him. Do not forget or you will not have counted as completing this quest and will have to do it again.


Bodley now sends you back to your faction quest provider. You must return there with your tier 0 chest and head piece. They will then be upgraded to the tier 0.5 set.

Finished!

Congratulations you have completed probably the longest and most difficult quest chain in the game to date for non-raiders. In the process you have upgraded your armor set and re-visited almost every high end zone and instance in the game.

That's another thing they should add back into the game. Some better and/or more creative patrolling mobs. Nowadays they're all walking like they're crippled, back in the day a Gargoyle would charge at your party at seven times the speed of sound and you'd better deal with him (shackle, trap, fear in a pinch) or he'd rip your healer a new asshole.

Hell, they should just remove AoE from the game entirely. But maybe I'm biased against AoE at the moment because I rolled a feral druid and their AoE is atrocious.

 

[Rivmusique]

It sounds like he doesn't like MMOs, or want to make them. Surprisingly common attitude among modern developers handling beloved franchises. "Don't worry, this isn't one of those icky MMOs. We've made it like other games! It's practically not an MMO at all!"

Suramar passes as a great MMO experience, there's actually proper group quests in the landscape (rather than in instanced dungeons), very little phasing (constantly see other players, it's a hell of an experience on a PvP server, glad I'm playing Druid right now). But yeah, praising that solo scenario shit ... not good. And that Exodar part was awful story telling anyway:

Spoiler

Velen, who's been around for ages and has had lots of information about his backstory told to us, helps us kill some demon leader. Mid-fight, he goes all "NO WAIT, MY VISION .... WE MUST STOP THIS! I'LL STOP YOU!" then turns hostile, we manage to murder the demon anyway. After that, he's all sad standing over the corpse, then he tells us that long ago he had a son that was taken from him (son has never been mentioned before) and he only realised that the demon lord was that son mid-battle because of a never before mentioned vision and "NOW I AM REALLY PISSED AND KEEN TO KILL LEGION SCUM!" Even if they had to tell this story, I don't see how they could think that giving us the "Velen has a son who may be converted to team bad guy" info AFTER we kill him was the best way to handle this. And this being the thing that makes that race REALLY hate the demons is ridiculous.

 

[Zeriel]

It sounds like he doesn't like MMOs, or want to make them. Surprisingly common attitude among modern developers handling beloved franchises. "Don't worry, this isn't one of those icky MMOs. We've made it like other games! It's practically not an MMO at all!"

Suramar passes as a great MMO experience, there's actually proper group quests in the landscape (rather than in instanced dungeons), very little phasing (constantly see other players, it's a hell of an experience on a PvP server, glad I'm playing Druid right now). But yeah, praising that solo scenario shit ... not good. And that Exodar part was awful story telling anyway:

Spoiler

Velen, who's been around for ages and has had lots of information about his backstory told to us, helps us kill some demon leader. Mid-fight, he goes all "NO WAIT, MY VISION .... WE MUST STOP THIS! I'LL STOP YOU!" then turns hostile, we manage to murder the demon anyway. After that, he's all sad standing over the corpse, then he tells us that long ago he had a son that was taken from him (son has never been mentioned before) and he only realised that the demon lord was that son mid-battle because of a never before mentioned vision and "NOW I AM REALLY PISSED AND KEEN TO KILL LEGION SCUM!" Even if they had to tell this story, I don't see how they could think that giving us the "Velen has a son who may be converted to team bad guy" info AFTER we kill him was the best way to handle this. And this being the thing that makes that race REALLY hate the demons is ridiculous.

I haven't played Legion and have no plans to, was just going based off his language. It's always strange to me to see people working in a medium advertising their product by indirectly insulting their own medium.

 

[Direwolf]

So people do the apparently really pretty zones to level up and then they're stuck doing Garrison missions.

Will someone with the expansion elaborate on this? I hear these fucking missions are in Legion, but that they've been scaled back. Straight up, how bad is it?

Pretty irrelevant now. They are there, but they don't offer anything that you can't get elsewhere. WQs provide much better rewards.
You still need to run a few of them for your Class Campaign (3rd artifact slot), but after that you can completely ignore them. Also you can start and finish them from your smartphone now.

 

[Metro]

Trying too hard. It's a video game. Just relax. I played during Vanilla, TBC, and Wrath when you were suckling at momma's teet. The current game is still fun in doses.

This has nothing to do with what I said or is addressing it any way, sooo trying too hard?

Still trying too hard.

 

[Rivmusique]

Metzen out: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749157269?page=1#1

I had just turned twenty years old when I started working at Blizzard. Seems like a lifetime ago. Guess it was. Those first few years were the start of a very grand adventure for me, one that would take me around the world, introduce me to thousands of wonderful geeks just like me—and ultimately shape the course of my adult life.

Of course when I started, I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. I had no idea how to make games or build entertainment products.…

But I had an insatiable passion for ideas. For stories. For heroes.

My only real training before joining Blizzard was the long-running D&D campaign I had with my closest friends—Sam, Mike P., Daniel, and Mikey C. (you know who you are, boys…HAMRO!). Building ideas—vast worldscapes, characters, and plotlines with my friends was my first great love. I lived for it. It was a safe space amid the tension and change of some rough teenage years. The grand refuge of D&D was a glorious meeting of minds and imaginations where I felt I truly belonged.

It was a space where friendship and imagination were inextricably linked.

The sharing of ideas on the fly, the crazy, unexpected turns other players would take—it stretched our imaginations in ways we’d never have dreamt of on our own. I loved how roleplaying through adventures taught us so much about each other—and, more often than not, ourselves. Imagining together helped us make sense of the crazy world we were growing up in. It made us stronger together.

I wouldn’t really understand the depth of it for many years, but I had learned an important truth from my friends back then:

Creativity is relational.

Looking back at my years at Blizzard, I see now how profoundly this idea has shaped my career. I see how profoundly my friends and coworkers at Blizzard have shaped me as a person.

For nearly twenty-three years I’ve had the very distinct privilege of shaping worlds and building games with the brightest creative minds in entertainment. I’ve walked with giants (and stood on some giants’ shoulders, too).

In short, I’ve had the time of my life.

I pretty much had the coolest job ever—but the truth is, sometimes it was really hard. Building games with dozens of brilliant, passionate alpha-geeks with their own red-hot instincts and perspectives can be pretty tricky. Coming to consensus about certain design decisions, story motifs, or courses of art direction takes a lot of communication, patience, and “give and take.” It stretches you. Sometimes it wasn’t all that pretty. But engaging with your teammates and collaborating through the potential quagmire of all that creative tension is where the real magic happens.

It’s not just the decisions you come to—or even the final shape of the product you craft.… It’s bigger than that—and infinitely more important. True collaboration builds trust—and trust is the basis of all lasting relationships. With trust you build more than just a great product.

You build a TRIBE…that can build anything.

A family of craftsmen.

That’s what Blizzard has been for me. My second family, through all of life’s ups and downs, it’s always been there. The great, geeky backdrop of my life. I don’t just mean “the job” or even the creative mission—but the people. The people who over and over lifted me up, believed in me—and pushed me to find my potential as both an artist and as a leader all these years.

To my Blizzard brothers and sisters…I wish I had the words.

Everything just sounds…trite.

All I can think of is…

You helped me believe in myself and achieve every one of my wildest dreams.
I am forever grateful to you.

I love you all with everything I’ve got.

Thank you.

And to all of you out there in Blizzard’s vast gaming community—those of you I’ve had the pleasure of meeting in person and all of you around the world I’ve only heard about—thank you.

Thank you all for letting me be a special part of your community. For letting me belong with you. We’ve shared countless adventures together and I’ve always been overwhelmed and humbled by your passion for our games as well your commitment to each other. Thank you for all the BlizzCon hugs, smiles, handshakes, and stories over the years. You will never know how much you’ve all touched my heart and inspired me to give my all into this craft.

With that said, I’ll try to get down to the point, here. I’ve come to a turn in the road. A new, far quieter chapter in my life looms ahead.

I am retiring.

Yup.

Hangin’ up my guns.
Clockin’ out.
Takin’ the last gryphon out of Stormwind.
You get the picture.

Crazy, I know.

It’s a massive change for me, but it’s one I’ve been looking forward to for a while now. It’s ironic given the fact that things have never been better or more energized at Blizzard. Just this year alone has been incredible.

Legion’s arrival.
The launch of Overwatch.
The Warcraft feature film.

I’ve never been more proud of Blizzard and the quality of its products than I am now. It’s remarkable that even after all these years we can still reach new heights and take the world for an amazing ride. I believe Blizzard’s future is brighter than ever.

I won’t lie—it’s going to be really hard stepping away from these worlds that I love. But I’m content that I’m leaving them in the hands of the most passionate, talented, and dedicated craftsmen ever assembled.

I can’t wait to see where Blizzard’s worlds go next—and to experience them first-hand like everyone else does. As a fan. As an adventurer. Right back to the start.

That’s just so cool…

The reason I use the word “retire” is because I’m not going to some other company or starting up new projects or anything remotely like that. It’s been a long, amazing stretch of years. Now it’s time to slow it down. Rest. Lay around on the couch and get fat. Well, fatter.…

Seriously though, I’ll be focusing on the one thing that matters most to me in all the world—my family. They’re the core of my life and the source of my deepest joy and inspiration. In addition to raising our two little ones, we recently welcomed our new baby into the family! Being home with them all, having time and space to really live…to love my wife with all my strength…that’s my career now.

And I’ve never been happier.

Ever. ☺

Peace out, y’all.

I love you all.

I’ll see you online.

Chris

 

[Havoc]

WoW will still be shit without him, so not much will change.

 

[you know what time it is]

It sounds like he doesn't like MMOs, or want to make them. Surprisingly common attitude among modern developers handling beloved franchises. "Don't worry, this isn't one of those icky MMOs. We've made it like other games! It's practically not an MMO at all!"

Well WoW's quests and story always sucked dick (just like any other MMO), Suramar is better than the typical blizzard streamlined epic nonsense, so he's not wrong. Doesn't mean it's good tho, just a notch above the usual shitfest.

 

[Metro]

I doubt he did much of anything the last ten years, anyway. Can't imagine what there is to 'retire' from. He didn't even write quests or stories; rather, oversaw the general background lore. And even then there are people they hire just to 'curate' that stuff. Maybe one of his kids has some kind of illness, who knows... Really bizarre move for a guy in his early/mid forties who doesn't exactly work a demanding job.

Either that or he can't stand Warcraft/Diablo/Starcraft anymore. Guessing he owned a piece of the company since he was there at the start and made a good chunk of cash when they sold shares to Activision.

 

[Scroo]

will metzen also stop voicing thrall then? I hope not

 

[Black_Willow]

will metzen also stop voicing thrall then? I hope not

I hope he doesn't stop voicing Varian!
Oh, wait...

 

[Zetor]

There's an amusing parallel with what happens to Green Jesus (Metzen's own Mary Sue character) during Legion.

Thrall's role in the shaman order hall basically ends with him losing Doomhammer while getting beaten to near-death by a demon, followed up by limping along ineffectually behind the player as they recover (and go on wielding) it... yea. He doesn't even have a position of authority - or hell, quest-giver status - during the shaman OH plotline, ~World Shaman~ or not. So yeah, if there's going to be any Thrall voice acting, it'll cover him retiring with Aggra, raising lots of ugly CGI orc babies, etc etc.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

will metzen also stop voicing thrall then? I hope not

He tweeted that he will still voice Thrall.

 

[MapMan]

I'm playing legion (last time since I played was TBC) and something felt off. The locations are neat, cozy and there's a lot to discover, exploration is very important to me. But somehow, it doesn't feel right and I think I've pin pointed my main two gripes.
Firstly, the world PVP and a sense of Horde and Alliance being at war is gone. Nobody cares about you, you don't care about anybody else, no matter if they're your faction or the opposing. Everybody rushes through content like it was some kind of obstacle on the way to something far more important. Leveling is pretty much a single player experience, other players might as well not be there.
Secondly, and that is somewhat connected to the first point, the difficulty is too low. That's the biggest gripe. And no, I'm not trying to say "HUR DURR LOOK HOW ELITE I AM I DID TBC PRE NERFS KEK". No. I'm not even speaking about dungeons, I'm totally fine with dungeons having multiple difficulty settings so everyone can experience the content. I'm talking about world mobs and questing. It's so easy that you basically faceroll everything. It totally breaks the immersion for me. I'm traveling through grand locations only to aggro 10 mobs and aoe them down, over and over again. Yesterday I was in Helheim. It's a great location, feels epic and dangerous. But it isn't. You faceroll it like everything else. If the difficulty was higher, you'd actually had to prepare some way and progress carefully, it'd make much more sense and would add depth to the location. Grouping up doesn't make sense because you don't need to do so at all. The rewards for the quest chains are meaningless as well, as I will get better loot half hour from finishing this questchain. It's so easy that everybody will do it and it feels like a meaningless chore rather than an adventure I need to do in order, for example, to attune myself for a specific dungeon. Eh. What a shame.

 

[Zetor]

The solo game became trivial around WOTLK (though really, BC leveling was pretty easy too except for the handful of group quests / minibosses), so don't expect that to change anytime soon. Now it's all about making the player feel AWESOME[tm], and you won't find anything that's reasonably challenging until level cap... except for maybe the stupidity of PUG teammates in dungeons.

World pvp is dumb in Legion, but it was dumb in basically every expansion for one reason or another (especially on a server like mine with a 2:1 pop imbalance). This time it's massive power differentials between, say, a level 101 and 102 character (and this will come up a lot since everything is level-scaled). Earlier today my 103 arms warrior was jumped 1v2 by a level 101 DH and a 100 prot warrior... I killed them both 3 times in a row due to them GY rushing me before they got the idea, and I was never in real danger. This was not because I'm particularly good at pvp, but rather because they couldn't really kill me while I could burn them down super quick (well, at least the DH, but it's not like the prot warrior could hurt me either). Then there are classes / class hall companions that are ridiculous (even after yesterday's hotfix nerf) like taran zhu doing a RNG 12-second AOE stun that also makes you take more damage. gg nore next map

 

[Makabb]

I played a lot during burning crusade, a little in wotlk and stopped in pandaren, game got worse with every patch since burning crusade, so i'm presuming vanilla at start was the best, but i never played it.

 

[Metro]

The peak of the game varies depending on what you want out of it. Vanilla was 'best' for the sense of new-ness and exploration when there wasn't a whole lot of information out in the early days. Five mans stayed relevant for longer. Raiding was fairly mediocre. Mechanics didn't get interesting until AQ and Naxx. TBC was the peak of heroic five man difficulty. Wrath was probably the peak of overall aesthetics and presentation but it still retained a decent amount of flow from leveling dungeons to heroics to raiding. It's why most people regard at as the apex of the game.

From what I've seen Legion appears to be extremely good at world questing/keeping the zones interesting and the concept of Mythic++++ where people can progress via five mans.

 

[Zeriel]

Relevant to what that guy was saying before about leveling--vanilla had by far the slowest leveling, and the most difficult mobs in leveling zones. It was a serious point of contention for some classes that leveling was a pain. With leveling gear you often couldn't consistently take on even 2 mobs at once, so there was a lot of add management and careful approaches to camps of mobs. Basically, it was a lot like Everquest. Come to think of it, that's probably the best way to describe vanilla: a more casual, more accessible Everquest. They hired raiders from Everquest to do game design in late alpha/early beta, and that's when the experience was retuned to be less solo-friendly and more difficult.

(It's been a while, but I recall there being a lot of controversy when they switched over to the Everquest model. Apparently before that potions didn't have cooldowns and it played more like Diablo. This was REALLY early in beta, though.)

 

[Wulfstand]

http://blizzardwatch.com/2016/09/14/patch-7-1s-karazhan-attunement-requires-ilevel-850-followers/

It's basically nothing and really easy to do but still, having some form of attunement is better than nothing.

I've also been getting to meet some more people that have gotten back into the game (they always mention they quit from BC/WotLK), and what's really interesting is that they're usually 10x more sociable than your current wow player.

Most of Cata and (early) MoP's dungeons are a joke, I don't understand why they felt the need to make so many of them so small and linear, I kind of miss the dungeon crawling. The area design is better though, but you won't be staring at the cave's walls during your 10th run.

The leveling experience is a joy. I'm only halfway through Stormheim and I'm loving how basically every nook and cranny is filled with some detail, either a treasure chest or a rare mob, the area design is fantastic as well, hope the rest of the areas are just as good. Running around the map with a friend killing elite mobs for a quest chain while also looking for chests and rare bosses felt like great fun. The leveling scaling might just be the best thing they've added to WoW outside of the dungeon/raid environment, as (from what I've gathered) it guarantees that exploring every last piece of the map and doing all of the quests is worthwhile.

 

[Naraya]

(It's been a while, but I recall there being a lot of controversy when they switched over to the Everquest model. Apparently before that potions didn't have cooldowns and it played more like Diablo. This was REALLY early in beta, though.)

Hmm, my memory is pretty foggy right now but I'm pretty sure potion cooldown did come somewhere around in TBC, certainly not the beta... I remember the divide in my guild it caused - some people liked it, some hated it.

 

[Zetor]

Potions always had a cooldown as far as I remember (open beta onwards), but in vanilla and maybe some of BC there was no restriction to how many potions you could use in battle other than the cooldown itself... like, in a 6-minute boss fight you could use 3-4 potions, and iirc each type of potion had its own CD before they split things to 'offensive potions', 'healing potions' and whatnot. This was eventually changed to the cooldown only counting down when you were out of combat, basically only allowing one potion during combat + the pre-pot 2 seconds before the pull.

Vanilla was also the era of stacking multiple consumables like different-level healthstones (you wanted an affliction lock with 1/2 improved healthstone next to all the SM/ruin and later MD/ruin locks), whipper root tubers, night's breath (or whatever), shadow resistance potions, maybe even the healing crystals from ungoro... which also meant a whole lot of farming. For all the nostalgia about vanilla, that's one aspect I do NOT miss.

e: though in one way it did create a community and economy of sorts. I know that the top raiding guild on our server hired people to farm shit for them, in exchange taking them on MC and BWL loot runs. Especially for the AQ event where the server had to farm like 100000 linen cloth, they held a competition / sweepstakes for the people who sent them the most crap. Looking back it was pretty amusing (and a bit sad, maybe), but definitely something that's been missing from WOW for a long time...

 

[Xor]

Yeah my server did that too, and there was actually a truce between the alliance and horde in Sithilus as guilds on both sides worked to farm things for the scepter quest line. Say what you will about vanilla, but at least it encouraged players to interact with each other and form communities.

 

[Zeriel]

Potions always had a cooldown as far as I remember (open beta onwards), but in vanilla and maybe some of BC there was no restriction to how many potions you could use in battle other than the cooldown itself... like, in a 6-minute boss fight you could use 3-4 potions, and iirc each type of potion had its own CD before they split things to 'offensive potions', 'healing potions' and whatnot. This was eventually changed to the cooldown only counting down when you were out of combat, basically only allowing one potion during combat + the pre-pot 2 seconds before the pull.

Vanilla was also the era of stacking multiple consumables like different-level healthstones (you wanted an affliction lock with 1/2 improved healthstone next to all the SM/ruin and later MD/ruin locks), whipper root tubers, night's breath (or whatever), shadow resistance potions, maybe even the healing crystals from ungoro... which also meant a whole lot of farming. For all the nostalgia about vanilla, that's one aspect I do NOT miss.

e: though in one way it did create a community and economy of sorts. I know that the top raiding guild on our server hired people to farm shit for them, in exchange taking them on MC and BWL loot runs. Especially for the AQ event where the server had to farm like 100000 linen cloth, they held a competition / sweepstakes for the people who sent them the most crap. Looking back it was pretty amusing (and a bit sad, maybe), but definitely something that's been missing from WOW for a long time...

I'm referring to closed beta/alpha. I remember it because I started paying attention to WoW right when they redesigned the game. It was when they added elites to the game. There was a big controversy over it, lots of "oh no, the Everquest faggots are ruining our game".

 

[Naraya]

Potions always had a cooldown as far as I remember (open beta onwards), but in vanilla and maybe some of BC there was no restriction to how many potions you could use in battle other than the cooldown itself... like, in a 6-minute boss fight you could use 3-4 potions, and iirc each type of potion had its own CD before they split things to 'offensive potions', 'healing potions' and whatnot.

Yes, you are right. Now I remember - the change I was thinking of was that in 1 combat you could only use 1 mana potion for example.

 

[Scruffy]

he's retiring?
at 40-something?
well... good for him i guess