Win Buttons VS complete butchering on TT adaptations. Which one do you prefer?

[Cryomancer]

When you are adapting a TTRPG to a CRPG, some times is near impossible to translate, like a Wish spell, other due technology limitations, end up being extremely more OP than what was intended. Other times, the devs nerf a class with no REASON to nerf it. A lot of people criticize both, but if you need to chose one thing, which one do you prefer?

A clear example of the first case is composite DEADLY EARTH on pathfinder kingmaker. Not because the ability is OP on P&P but because enemies has poor AI and doesn't try to avoid the ground effect, wings and flying creatures can't ignore the ground effect like on P&P, among other things.

A clear example of butchering is nwn2 warlocks. I can write a long text about why they are complete trash compared to P&P, why someone who only played nwn2 would think that 5e buffed warlocks but someone who played P&P would think that they nerfed the class in relation to complete arcane, but will only focus on one invocation. Chilling Tentacles. That greater invocation on P&P has caster level + 8 AB and in game has a fix +5 AB meaning that the invocation only hits heavily armored enemies with a critical and after a hit, allow a FORT save vs paralyze. On P&P, the grapple routine is much more unforgiving and while grappled, the target can't cast spells, fire ranged attacks, they are sitting ducks waiting to be dead by eldritch rays or worst, permanently changed into a toad/chicken(word of changing)

 

[Background Character]

I love tentacles

 

[Cryomancer]

I love tentacles

The point of playing as a warlock is to throw tentacles on succubus!!!

 

[Ontopoly]

Complete butchering because the video game industry has provided products that are so much better than the TT products they took influence from.

 

[howlingFantods]

Whichever one is more fun for the player

 

[BarbequeMasta]

The butcherin is barely better than nothing. So win button I guess, balance shouldn't outweight fun when it comes to single player games.

 

[Yosharian]

I don't see why this needs to be a binary decision. Maybe we can just have developers be fucking competent? Or is that too much to ask

 

[mondblut]

Being extremely more OP than what was intended is crazy fun, but... what kind of gay shit "kineticist" is? 3e onwards was a mistake.

 

[Cryomancer]

The butcherin is barely better than nothing. So win button I guess, balance shouldn't outweight fun when it comes to single player games.

I honestly prefer NOTHING. Imagine someone who played 3.5e WLK for long years, no longer has a group, saw the class on NWN2 character creation screen, chose the class and then laters he discovers that the class is completely worthless. Not having the class wound't cause frustration to the player. This type of frustration is not only with gaming. Imagine someone who loves a character in a book and a movie adaptation destroys the character.

Being extremely more OP than what was intended is crazy fun, but... what kind of gay shit "kineticist" is? 3e onwards was a mistake.

Kineticist is a Pathfinder class that comes on Pathfinder Kingmaker as a DLC. The Deadly Earth is so powerful that is almost a win button.

 

[mondblut]

Kineticist is a Pathfinder class

There are only six classes (unless it's Wizardry). The rest are gay shit.

 

[Ontopoly]

Kineticist is a Pathfinder class

There are only six classes (unless it's Wizardry). The rest are gay shit.

Casual scum. Aka Choices and dealing with too many classes is too hard so let's just leave them out. 3.5 and Pathfinder actually let you build your character rather than just picking a class and mostly going with what you got.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

The only universally gay class is Bard. Let's not lose sight of that.

 

[Ontopoly]

The only universally gay class is Bard. Let's not lose sight of that.

If you mean literally gay then maybe but if you're using gay as a generic slur then I would add Warlock in there too.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

If you mean literally gay then maybe but if you're using gay as a generic slur then I would add Warlock in there too.

Generic gay should also include Monks.

 

[Cryomancer]

There are only six classes (unless it's Wizardry). The rest are gay shit.

Sorry BUT warlocks existed on 2e

"Warlocks did not exist as a separate class, but did exist as a special variety of the wizard class (if you accept that "warlock" is the term for a male witch).

2e introduced character kits, which are similar to pathfinder archetypes. Essentially, they are templates that replace certain class features with others. The Complete Wizard's Handbook has a kit called "witch," which gave the character a few special powers related to the mysterious entities he/she cavorts with. Otherwise, they were regular wizards, although they were encouraged to specialize in enchantment or illusion.

I have the book, so I could look up specifics once I get home, if you're interested."
source > https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/36orzy/do_warlocks_exist_in_the_2e_set/

But IMO 2e has much better MARTIAL rules than 3.5e.[/quote]

 

[mondblut]

Casual scum. Aka Choices and dealing with too many classes is too hard so let's just leave them out. 3.5 and Pathfinder actually let you build your character rather than just picking a class and mostly going with what you got.

A fool to peddle a million splatbooks to.

I am not interesting in playing a Man Who Picks His Nose With His Right Hand and the subtle but important differences he has with a Man Who Picks His Nose With His Left Hand (available next month). Nor in many nose-picking feats and special abilities he gains when stacking 3 levels of Man Who Can Suck His Own Left Ball (already in stores). You keep your 4756723 cardboard-cutout one trick ponies, I'll have my fighter and wizard, kthxbye.

 

[Cryomancer]

You keep your 4756723 cardboard-cutout one trick ponies, I'll have my fighter and wizard, kthxbye.

What is the problem of having variety on arcane classes? Instead of Wizard, why not a Sorcerer and a Warlock? What is the problem of having more options? Do you really think that someone who learns magic from books and someone who learns by being a apprentice of a outsider would have similar magic powers?

You can argue that this classes would be better as a "subkit" of wizard and i partially agree. 2e also has the best martial rules. The AC of a plate armor vs slashes and vs blunt is different and it makes perfectly sense.