Decline What is the end-goal for RPG's? What fundamentally seperates the appeal of RPG's from TTRPG's?

[Lurker47]

I've been wondering about what truly separates the appeal of videogame RPG's from their table-top counterparts and what it means for the future of the genre. Is it just the direct stimulus (music, graphics, controlling the character) or are RPG's just TTRPG's for people with no friends? Are RPG videogames only valuable because they can allow more mechanical complexity than a typical pen-and-paper game? Is the ideal goal of RPG's to emulate TTRPG's- wouldn't online TT resources/systems make that obsolete? Or is there something special to a insulated, less reactive RPG- especially if there's a story to be told through it?

 

[just]

i dont know

 

[Harthwain]

While I am active proponent of digitalizing boardgames (it's easier to find games without moving from home, tedious stuff gets automated, etc.), I don't think you should want the same to happen here.

One of the big strengths of videogames is their technical capability to run a simulation of the game world. Singleplayer is an added bonus at this point. This is where where I think the videogames went wrong: instead of going the simulation route, they all try to re-create their tabletop counterparts, which usually leads to second-rate experience compared to the actual thing. Part of the problem, in my opinion, is that by now "how to make a cRPG" is so heavily ingrained in people's mind (not just developers', but people at large as well) that most simply can't imagine anything else, nevermind anything else being better.

At least until something unique comes out and suddenly becomes a huge success. Then everybody starts copying that.

 

[Funposter]

"tabletop RPG without the need for friends" describes maybe 10% of a CRPG's appeal

 

[Erikkolai]

I'd like to see NPCs with a Type IV level of AI (self awareness). Imagine the potential for trolling and abuse.

Maybe we're exactly that, and exist within the game session of a highly advanced alien gamer (who might have abandoned the game).

 

[DraQ]

cRPGs that just strive to be TTRPGs for people with no friends only yields shitty cRPGs.
To thrive cRPGs need to realize both their own limitations and the limitations of TTRPGs and not be afraid do throw away stuff, add it or do things differently in order to harness their medium's strength and work around its weaknesses.
Emulating PnP as closely as possible or even holding onto "core" vestiges of PnP systems that were unhappy compromise due to platform's inherent limitations* only yields shitty games AND shitty RPGs.
Anyone not willing to understand it should be just walled in and have concrete poured over, they are already lost to this world.

cRPG is not a shitty TTRPG in a similar, but actually even more significant way a movie is not just a shitty book.

*) In before some moron steps in thinking (heh) "oooh! he must be talking about TB! the heretic!" and chimes in with this insight:
I am not. If you are to embarrass yourself in such way, better just give yourself a Kurt Cobain haircut** and be done with this shit.

**) The OTHER Kurt Cobain haircut. One involving shotgun.

 

[DraQ]

I'd like to see NPCs with a Type IV level of AI (self awareness). Imagine the potential for trolling and abuse.

Maybe we're exactly that, and exist within the game session of a highly advanced alien gamer (who might have abandoned the game).

If so I'd like to fill a bug report.

 

[TemplarGR]

The end goal of RPGs is to waste your time.

 

[DraQ]

The end goal of RPGs is to waste your time.

Same as the end goal of you posting here?

 

[TemplarGR]

Same as the end goal of you posting here?

Are you butthurt? Cause this sounded like butthurt to me.

 

[DraQ]

Same as the end goal of you posting here?

Are you butthurt? Cause this sounded like butthurt to me.

You must be hard of hearing (in addition to being hard of thinking) given that you should have a lot of experience with how butthurt sounds.

Or is it the same thing as with your voice sounding different if heard from outside?

 

[Dorateen]

"tabletop RPG without the need for friends" describes maybe 10% of a CRPG's appeal

Left off a 0

 

[mondblut]

"tabletop RPG without the need for friends" describes maybe 10% of a CRPG's appeal

Yeah. The good 10%.

 

[moraes]

Total escapism from a failed reality.

 

[Darth Canoli]

A tabletop RPG with no friends is 20% of the appeal, because at some point (when you grow up but before you're retired), gathering your friends for a tabletop session becomes an impossible mission, let alone once a month to complete an adventure.

That's the itch Larian scratched with their Co-op mode.

But mostly, it's its own thing, just like a good fantasy book makes you want to watch a good fantasy series and then play a good cRPG and watching mad max makes you want to play the latest Fallout 1/2 mod.

 

[Bony Hands]

The idea that there is an end goal for RPGs is a silly one as that implies there is some final evolution out there that all of them are heading towards. Games are made to entertain and take your money and so they'll keep changing to find ways to do so. This is why we still get different types of RPG. You can list plenty of reasons someone would play one over the other, or like both, or why they would have their preferences, because they're entirely different mediums and should be treated a such.

 

[hatlock]

I think the questions should be what is possible or even exciting about CRPGs that differentiates it from Table Top. As a previous poster mentioned before there is a high potential for experimentation when adapting from one source to another. I think "The Shining" is an excellent example. Both King's book and Kubrick's movie have their fans and detractors. But I think we'd live in a less interesting world if every movie adaptation was completely devoted to the source materials. Just like movies can communicate with sound and visual cues, video games can add a sometimes inconceivable ton of narrative possibility through the use of music, sounds, audio, and visual art.

Many posters on this site discount a lot of the experimentation done with JRPGs, but over the past decades there is a lot of intriguing work done with telling many different genres of stories or integrating music and visual arts into the narrative. I can think of Phantasy Star IV's comic panel style splash screens and Undertale's "talk and get to know the monsters" combat system.

Collaborative story telling of the type seen in Table Top RPGs can be amazingly exciting and even a beautiful communal experience. But it is also amazing to see a team of writers tell a story.

Also, for me personally, the big appeal to CRPGs are the wargame-style tactical level of control, being able to problem solve and test the limits of a system and experiment without needing consensus.

 

[Lurker47]

cRPGs that just strive to be TTRPGs for people with no friends only yields shitty cRPGs.
To thrive cRPGs need to realize both their own limitations and the limitations of TTRPGs and not be afraid do throw away stuff, add it or do things differently in order to harness their medium's strength and work around its weaknesses.
Emulating PnP as closely as possible or even holding onto "core" vestiges of PnP systems that were unhappy compromise due to platform's inherent limitations* only yields shitty games AND shitty RPGs.
Anyone not willing to understand it should be just walled in and have concrete poured over, they are already lost to this world.

cRPG is not a shitty TTRPG in a similar, but actually even more significant way a movie is not just a shitty book.

*) In before some moron steps in thinking (heh) "oooh! he must be talking about TB! the heretic!" and chimes in with this insight:
I am not. If you are to embarrass yourself in such way, better just give yourself a Kurt Cobain haircut** and be done with this shit.

Could you elaborate on this?

 

[Lurker47]

One of the big strengths of videogames is their technical capability to run a simulation of the game world. Singleplayer is an added bonus at this point. This is where where I think the videogames went wrong: instead of going the simulation route, they all try to re-create their tabletop counterparts, which usually leads to second-rate experience compared to the actual thing. Part of the problem, in my opinion, is that by now "how to make a cRPG" is so heavily ingrained in people's mind (not just developers', but people at large as well) that most simply can't imagine anything else, nevermind anything else being better.

Can you think of what makes this different from a TTRPG, specifically, in your mind?

 

[Funposter]

"tabletop RPG without the need for friends" describes maybe 10% of a CRPG's appeal

Yeah. The good 10%.

 

[Harthwain]

Can you think of what makes this different from a TTRPG, specifically, in your mind?

Very generally speaking - the structure.

If you look at tabletop RPGs, you will see that they are essentially the same thing. When it comes to a video game RPG you need to be very specific about what you're putting in and how everything is going to work together. In tabletop you can do whatever you wish, because you can come up with literally anything, even when it doesn't make sense.

If you go for narrative-heavy cRPG, then the amount of content you can put it has to be done by hand and is ultimately limited, because your choices and their outcomes are predetermined. In fact, a lot of the time choices end up being "choices" (you use different skill, which leads you to the same conclussion).

If you go for a simulation, then the amount of content and choices should be greater and less restricted, depending on how detailed the simulation is. Imagine the world not being both empty and static, waiting for the player to do something. This is a huge difference between a video game simulation and tabletop: tabletop rarely has the need to simulate events that happen outside of players' perspective. They are mostly static. Reactive, but static (the same way narrative-heavy cRPGs are static). And blank. Until there is the need to fill in the blanks.

Technically your GM could decide to introduce some sort of outside influence (NPCs being agents doing their own things that impact everything else, the flow of time being an important consideration, etc.), but that would make it harder to manage the game, so most people don't really bother with it and focus on the party and the reactive part of the tabletop, which means only what players interact with is simulated by their GM (and their imagination - and their GM's - is the main limit. The other main limit being GM's own willingness to roll with his players' choices).

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

General: Conan, what is best in RPGs?
Conan: To crush your enemies, explore their dungeons, and to see the glitter of their treasure.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

CRPGs have been invented for otaku sex & romances.

 

[Darth Canoli]

General: Conan, what is best in RPGs?
Conan: To crush your enemies, explore their dungeons, and to see the glitter of their treasure.

It's no good if you can't hear the lamentations of their women.

 

[Lurker47]

Now that a consensus seems to have been reached, what is the (general) direction that RPG videogames should aim for?