What Gaider thinks of their player base's intelligence

[Cynic]

FUCK THIS SHIT MADE ME LOL HARD!!!!!

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I didn't want to start a new thread for it, and this one seems fitting enough. It's declining anyway. In a very old bioboards thread I randomly stumbled upon, I found this:

Q:

Is there any person in kotOR 2 that can be like Bastila?? I mean is there someone you can love??

A:

Not really like KotOR...not even close. One of the lead designers over there thinks that love plots have no real place in RPG's. I beg to differ with him, but that's another argument, another day.

The romances in K2 are nearly non-existant, male or female. They basically boil down to innuendo and vague references, but nothing even half as satisfying as K1. The Female Exile romance options are badly done. So vague. So very vague.

Nothing new under the sun there, if it wasn't that the thread is from 2005. I had the impression all the romances shit was something kinda recent, started by DAO and continued by ME2 (and DA2, and every future biowhore game, now). Evidently, I was wrong: this shit was abound and advocated 6 years ago, before even ME1 was released. Meh.

Yea, it was there from the beginning, but KotOR1 began the shift towards it.

Though actually, it's kind of a funny Cartesian thing with the way MCA can write romances so well:

He hates them, therefore he can write them.

 

[treave]

I didn't want to start a new thread for it, and this one seems fitting enough. It's declining anyway. In a very old bioboards thread I randomly stumbled upon, I found this:

Q:

Is there any person in kotOR 2 that can be like Bastila?? I mean is there someone you can love??

A:

Not really like KotOR...not even close. One of the lead designers over there thinks that love plots have no real place in RPG's. I beg to differ with him, but that's another argument, another day.

The romances in K2 are nearly non-existant, male or female. They basically boil down to innuendo and vague references, but nothing even half as satisfying as K1. The Female Exile romance options are badly done. So vague. So very vague.

Nothing new under the sun there, if it wasn't that the thread is from 2005. I had the impression all the romances shit was something kinda recent, started by DAO and continued by ME2 (and DA2, and every future biowhore game, now). Evidently, I was wrong: this shit was abound and advocated 6 years ago, before even ME1 was released. Meh.

Yea, it was there from the beginning, but KotOR1 began the shift towards it.

Though actually, it's kind of a funny Cartesian thing with the way MCA can write romances so well:

He hates them, therefore he can write them.

As far as I remember, there were no romances in BG1. Then there were romances in BG2.

And yeah, it all went downhill from there. The romances in BG2 really caught the interest of certain sorts of RPG players. You know, the sort who later go on to make Keldorn romance mods or threesomes with Anomen and Haer'dalis.

And Aerie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Morrigan, or whatever crazed tart they're flaunting as love interests nowadays.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

And Aerie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Morrigan, or whatever crazed tart they're flaunting as love interests nowadays.

People really wanted to do something to Aerie which didn't involve hanging, drawning and quartering?

 

[Jools]

I didn't want to start a new thread for it, and this one seems fitting enough. It's declining anyway. In a very old bioboards thread I randomly stumbled upon, I found this:

Q:

Is there any person in kotOR 2 that can be like Bastila?? I mean is there someone you can love??

A:

Not really like KotOR...not even close. One of the lead designers over there thinks that love plots have no real place in RPG's. I beg to differ with him, but that's another argument, another day.

The romances in K2 are nearly non-existant, male or female. They basically boil down to innuendo and vague references, but nothing even half as satisfying as K1. The Female Exile romance options are badly done. So vague. So very vague.

Nothing new under the sun there, if it wasn't that the thread is from 2005. I had the impression all the romances shit was something kinda recent, started by DAO and continued by ME2 (and DA2, and every future biowhore game, now). Evidently, I was wrong: this shit was abound and advocated 6 years ago, before even ME1 was released. Meh.

Yea, it was there from the beginning, but KotOR1 began the shift towards it.

Though actually, it's kind of a funny Cartesian thing with the way MCA can write romances so well:

He hates them, therefore he can write them.

Conveniently, last night I completed my 6th playthrough of kotor1. All in all, the timid attempt at romances pulled off a much better result that the straightforward shit in DAO. In kotor one had to go through a lot of the game before anything actually happened, whereas in DAO one can get laid pretty easily very shortly after meeting the designated rape target.

The romance-related lines in kotor also are cheesy in a naive way (something you'd expect from Dawson's Creek or Sabrina Teen Witch), while those in DAO are full-out crap.

And the portrayal isn't that bad either: a chaste fade-to-black in kotor, and that's for a kiss scene. Again, much better a design choice than the cheesy dry-humping with unlikely lingerie, deformed body models and church choir psalming in the background that we have been shown in DAO.

Now starting kotor2.

 

[hoverdog]

And Aerie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Morrigan, or whatever crazed tart they're flaunting as love interests nowadays.

People really wanted to do something to Aerie which didn't involve hanging, drawning and quartering?

Ha! That's the point. You DO have strong feelings for her (even if it's HAET), you remember her and can go for hours on how stupid she is. Morrigan, on the other hand, is just... bland. Banal. Shit. Boring.
The same goes with Anomen, who's an annoying dickhead, and Biowarean Pussy Male(tm) #5288, Alistair. BG(2) characters, even if ridiculous or just plain bad, were at least memorable. You can't say that about any DAO or ME1 characters.

Though DA2 will have Merill, which is a step in the right direction

 

[DraQ]

Though DA2 will have Merill, which is a step in the right direction

The right direction being someone finally snapping and shooting head honchos of biowhore with an anti-materiel rifle?

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Ha! That's the point. You DO have strong feelings for her (even if it's HAET), you remember her and can go for hours on how stupid she is. Morrigan, on the other hand, is just... bland. Banal. Shit. Boring.
The same goes with Anomen, who's an annoying dickhead, and Biowarean Pussy Male(tm) #5288, Alistair. BG(2) characters, even if ridiculous or just plain bad, were at least memorable. You can't say that about any DAO or ME1 characters.

Though DA2 will have Merill, which is a step in the right direction

I disagree. I have such strong feelings about BG2 characters, namely Anomen and Aerie, because it was one of the first games which I've played where party members had any personalities at all. First one was Albion, second - Fallout 2. Third were BG1&2, and compared to even Albion, not to mention Fallout, BG's characters sucked big time.

They weren't written as excellent, hate-inspiring antagonists. They were written by people which wanted to make lovable, interesting characters, but had no idea how to achieve that.

So their memorability isn't a writing achievement, at least for me. It's a combination of novelity, my younger age back when game came out, and utter incompetence of characters' writers.

 

[Mastermind]

And Aerie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Morrigan, or whatever crazed tart they're flaunting as love interests nowadays.

People really wanted to do something to Aerie which didn't involve hanging, drawning and quartering?

Aerie = awesomesauce. I never play BG2 without her in my party. Plus, she had the best critical strike comment in the game.

 

[genci88]

FUCK THIS SHIT MADE ME LOL HARD!!!!!

Now imagine him engaging in sexual intercourse with his wife.

 

[Gondolin]

People really wanted to do something to Aerie which didn't involve hanging, drawning and quartering?

Well, the Codex does have a bunch of Rance fans, if you get my meaning.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

People really wanted to do something to Aerie which didn't involve hanging, drawning and quartering?

Well, the Codex does have a bunch of Rance fans, if you get my meaning.

Rance-rape is a gentle and kind thing, nothing malevolent about it.

EDIT:

Conveniently, last night I completed my 6th playthrough of kotor1. All in all, the timid attempt at romances pulled off a much better result that the straightforward shit in DAO. In kotor one had to go through a lot of the game before anything actually happened, whereas in DAO one can get laid pretty easily very shortly after meeting the designated rape target.

The romance-related lines in kotor also are cheesy in a naive way (something you'd expect from Dawson's Creek or Sabrina Teen Witch), while those in DAO are full-out crap.

And the portrayal isn't that bad either: a chaste fade-to-black in kotor, and that's for a kiss scene. Again, much better a design choice than the cheesy dry-humping with unlikely lingerie, deformed body models and church choir psalming in the background that we have been shown in DAO.

Now starting kotor2.

As I said in a post in a different thread, KotOR1 was the best attempt Bioware managed as far as romances go. However, it still suffered from lacking any kind of chemistry or positioning in the plot. If you were a smarter writer, you'd have realized that if you're gonna have the PC say the magic words to Bastila, you're gonna wait until aboard the Starforge so they'll actually hold special meaning.

Still, wtf is up with making Carth anything?

 

[RK47]

Bastila:...OMG WE JUST KISSED.

PC :HOLY SHIT.

Bastila: JEDIS ARENT SUPPOSED TO.

me: HHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHA

Best sci-fi game romance EVAR.

 

[Xor]

I've never really had a problem with the romances in bioware games. They don't bother me, but I wouldn't care if they were left out, either. That holds for other developers, as well. The only game where it actually bothered me was the NWN2 OC, where the romances were just really, really poorly handled.

When the romances start becoming mandatory, then I'll take issue with them.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Bioware really really really wants you to play their romances though, ever since KotOR1.

 

[DraQ]

In before mandatory bromance.

 

[Sceptic]

The right direction being someone finally snapping and shooting head honchos of biowhore with an anti-materiel rifle?

There now, no need to get so riled up *noms head*

 

[Clockwork Knight]

*noms head*

Speaking of that, just read something about New Vegas: Dead Money.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Dog_and_God

Notable quotes

OM NOM NOM! (Wild Wasteland trait required)

 

[Radisshu]

*noms head*

Speaking of that, just read something about New Vegas: Dead Money.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Dog_and_God

Notable quotes

OM NOM NOM! (Wild Wasteland trait required)

Well, at least there's a trait that enables that stupid shit

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

They weren't written as excellent, hate-inspiring antagonists. They were written by people which wanted to make lovable, interesting characters, but had no idea how to achieve that.

Why would cNPCs have to be lovable? I doubt anyone who wrote Safana, Kagain, the bard dude from Cloakwood, Garrick, Shar Teel, BG1 Viconia, Xzar, Montaron, etc. has intended them to be lovable people. They are just annoying people who happen to be useful. To be honest it makes me wonder if they have used character flaw tables when writing them.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

They weren't written as excellent, hate-inspiring antagonists. They were written by people which wanted to make lovable, interesting characters, but had no idea how to achieve that.

Why would cNPCs have to be lovable? I doubt anyone who wrote Safana, Kagain, the bard dude from Cloakwood, Garrick, Shar Teel, BG1 Viconia, Xzar, Montaron, etc. has intended them to be lovable people. They are just annoying people who happen to be useful. To be honest it makes me wonder if they have used character flaw tables when writing them.

Err, I pointed out to hoverdog that my intense dislike of those characters isn't rooted in them written as rivals or antagonists, but rather in Bioware's writing fail. As for lovable — your mind probably blocked this because of cognitive dissonance, but both Anomen and Aerie were love interests, and both were good-aligned.

 

[Sceptic]

Well, at least there's a trait that enables that stupid shit

The Retarded trait specifically, so all's well.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Gaider didn't write for BG. Only for BG2. Curiously, there are no romances in BG. Only in BG2.

Co-incidence? YOU DECIDE.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Gaider didn't write for BG. Only for BG2. Curiously, there are no romances in BG. Only in BG2.

Baldur's Gate was 3 CDs. It did not have romances. BG2 was 4. BG2 had romances.

Conclusion: The last CD is love.

 

[hoverdog]

Baldur's Gate was 5 CDs.