Wasteland Wasteland 3 Pre-Release Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Owlish]

 

[YES!]

That should say you are fucking stupid. Wheres the video of you kicking ass and taking names without save scumming in FO 1and 2?

Also, you sure the fuck aren't with me. You are way the fuck behind me in retard-raised-wrong-childville. Now don't you have some hipster shit to play like that Lothing game, Pyre, or Pokeman?

 

[Owlish]

That should say you are fucking stupid. Wheres the video of you kicking ass and taking names without save scumming in FO 1and 2?

Also, you sure the fuck aren't with me. You are way the fuck behind me in retard-raised-wrong-childville. Now don't you have some hipster shit to play like that Lothing game, Pyre, or Pokeman?

Well maybe if you were actually good at the game you wouldn't need to save scum, newbie. The game is not flawed, you are simply crap at RPGs and should go back to playing League of Legends. HAHA!

 

[YES!]

That should say you are fucking stupid. Wheres the video of you kicking ass and taking names without save scumming in FO 1and 2?

Also, you sure the fuck aren't with me. You are way the fuck behind me in retard-raised-wrong-childville. Now don't you have some hipster shit to play like that Lothing game, Pyre, or Pokeman?

Well maybe if you were actually good at the game you wouldn't need to save scum, newbie. The game is not flawed, you are simply crap at RPGs and should go back to playing League of Legends. HAHA!

HAHAHAHA. You are as bad at insulting people as you are at knowing what you are talking about. You seriously just spew nonsense anyone that ahs actually played FO 1 and 2 know to be false. I fucking love those games, and basically anything Tim Caine has done, but the combat is not good. Save scum combat is bad. Save scum combat is for baddies like you who know nothing about anything. FO1/2 would be completely different games if it didn't have save scum combat. Look at the new XComs and try to play with normal saves or with no combat saves as a somewhat relevant comparison, but less dramatic than FO with a much higher and wilder chance of being missed or what happens during a crit/aimed crit.

Lets review the facts
1) You are a child with nearly no experience with anything
2) You literally know nothing and just spew nonsense
3) You are fucking stupid as shit
4) You probably have never played FO 1 or 2 and have only watched videos of others playing it because you are a retarded kid and that's what you fucking idiots do
5) You have no actual relevant information to back up the fucking gibberish your retard mind comes up with so you try and insult me and do a worse job than most seven year olds could.
6) Your total incompetence at insulting, and the fact you actually hit the post button with your retarded post, leads me to believe you are not just a child, but have led a very sheltered life. In my day you would have been insulted enough to know some good insults to reply with and also have been informed of and had reinforced your blatant stupidity. You would then know enough to keep your mouth shut about things you don't know about when non-stupids are talking. Society, your family, and your peers have failed you. I would say friends instead of peers but it is obvious you have none.

 

[Owlish]

haha, that's so rich!
It's pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain that you have never played any old skool RPGs yourself, and only watch youtube lets plays after you go into the genre with wasteland 2, which is a complete piece of crap and every true RPG fan knows it. If you knew how to play RPGs with any intelligence then you wouldn't have such a hard time with games like Fallout 1 or 2. I bet you have never even heard of Arcanum, haha, what a newbie little kid!

 

[undecaf]

Combat in the original Fallout's worked well as a tabletop emulation (which I think it was intended too), but if you approach it as a combat simulation (like Jagged Alliance) it doesn't work so well anymore.

Given how the whole package worked, how the different features played together, combat in Fallout 1&2 (in all of its simplicity) worked rather well for the intended experience. A more heavyhanded approach might've shifted the balance for more combat oriented game which, good or bad in its own right, would've changed the experience (and not necessarily overall for the better). I liked it the way it was.

As for savescumming it... If someone goes through the trouble of bulldozing a result no matter how long and how much effort it took (rather than accepting not being able to at the moment, or perhaps at all with that character), I think he's earned it. And if it ruins his experience, it's his business to deal with and not the fault of the game. Exploitability is unfortunate, but if you do it and then bitch about it, you only have yourself to blame.

 

[Haplo]

You're just rich. Can't... resist...

Yes, because WL2 combat is such a hardcore challenge

Far more so than FO1 or 2. This is not opinion. In F0 1 and 2 you can win every fight with any build, period. This is not opinion.

I'd LOVE to see you winning EVERY fight with a 1-3 Agility character.

Are you implying I somehow was responsible for allowing combat saves in FO 1 and 2? You can min-max all you like, lets see you roll a FO1 character that can defeat the whole bandit camp that kidnapped the girl without save scumming. Lets see you kill and release the slavers and slaves in the first biggish city you get to in Fo2. Lets see you defeat a cave full of death monster things. When FO 1 and 2 came out there was no walktrhoughs on the internet or shitheads reading about builds before making a character. It was just us and our brains and manual versus the game, and we won then and we still win now. You fucking morons couldn't play a game without walkthroughs and watching 20 hours of video of someone else playing it and getti9ng told exactly how to build your character and not even having to think for a second. You are all very stupid, wrong, and fucking retarded.

Oh, so Fallout combat is so challenging you need save scumming now?

 

[YES!]

haha, that's so rich!
It's pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain that you have never played any old skool RPGs yourself, and only watch youtube lets plays after you go into the genre with wasteland 2, which is a complete piece of crap and every true RPG fan knows it. If you knew how to play RPGs with any intelligence then you wouldn't have such a hard time with games like Fallout 1 or 2. I bet you have never even heard of Arcanum, haha, what a newbie little kid!

Sure, pal.

I'd LOVE to see you winning EVERY fight with a 1-3 Agility character.

With combat reloads how can you not see this? Its just a matter of patients? Oh, I know how you don't see it, you are fucking retarded.

Oh, so Fallout combat is so challenging you need save scumming now?

God, you idiots and your nonsense. Yes, it was too difficult so I save scummed. I didn't save scum to be successful by attacking an army of bad guys.

Combat in the original Fallout's worked well as a tabletop emulation (which I think it was intended too), but if you approach it as a combat simulation (like Jagged Alliance) it doesn't work so well anymore.

Given how the whole package worked, how the different features played together, combat in Fallout 1&2 (in all of its simplicity) worked rather well for the intended experience. A more heavyhanded approach might've shifted the balance for more combat oriented game which, good or bad in its own right, would've changed the experience (and not necessarily overall for the better). I liked it the way it was.

As for savescumming it... If someone goes through the trouble of bulldozing a result no matter how long and how much effort it took (rather than accepting not being able to at the moment, or perhaps at all with that character), I think he's earned it. And if it ruins his experience, it's his business to deal with and not the fault of the game. Exploitability is unfortunate, but if you do it and then bitch about it, you only have yourself to blame.

Is saving and reloading an exploit? That is fucking retarded to think. Either a game allows combat reloading or it doesn't. If you allow it, and it has content geared for it, such as armies of bad guys and caves full of death monster things, it sure as fuck isn't an exploit. You cannot farm xp in the real FOs. There is a ticking time limit.

In all the examples I gave there is no way to be succeful without save scumming. Period. So either you handicap yourself and approach the content realistically and do not approach it as a game and proceed as your ideal character would, but as someone who isn't, sure. You just handle the content differently. You skip quests, you let shit slide, etc. If the game supported that style of play, instead of my handicapping myself and playing in a way I don't want I would create a different character and approach the content differently.

You guys are talking about shit that is extremely simple to grasp and understand for anyone who has actually played the games. Want to kill the huge army that kidnapped the Tandi(?) lady? You have one option - save scum. Period. My vault dweller mowed those fuckers down like wheat because 1) that is how he roles 2) He can 3) he can because the game mechanics are set up that way. Do you know how easy it would have been for them to not allow combat loading? Most games before and after didn't or don't allow it. It wasn't common. It was implemented on purpose.

You guys can spew your inane gibberish all day. It doesn't change facts. Hoping and wanting and viewing something a special way doesn't change what it is nor how it was designed.

 

[undecaf]

Is saving and reloading an exploit?

No, it isn't. But as you so neatly prove, you can abuse it to such lenghts that it's not all that different thing anymore. And evidently it also hurts your experience; which I do not wonder at all since it's a really lousy way of playing. (And there's no "special way" of looking at it, I play my games by the rules, I just do not savescum since it's false and fucks everything up and the game is obviously very much doable without it).

You can abuse the savegame feature all you want, it is there and it can be used and you're not "wrong" in abusing it, but it obviously is not the way the game was intended to be played. And if you know it shits on your experience, I can't figure out a single valid reason not to stop using it.

 

[YES!]

Is saving and reloading an exploit?

No, it isn't. But as you so neatly prove, you can abuse it to such lenghts that it's not all that different thing anymore. And evidently it also hurts your experience; which I do not wonder at all since it's a really lousy way of playing. (And there's no "special way" of looking at it, I play my games by the rules, I just do not savescum since it's false and fucks everything up and the game is obviously very much doable without it).

You can abuse the savegame feature all you want, it is there and it can be used and you're not "wrong" in abusing it, but it obviously is not the way the game was intended to be played. And if you know it shits on your experience, I can't figure out a single valid reason not to stop using it.

Something that isn't an exploit in a game can't be abused - it is played. The systems in a game are used to play the game. Replace combat reloading with just combat and your post reads the same. You can exploit the combat in games to do real good and win. Or the chargen and dev system. Or any system purposefully implemented.

Just to clarify please answer these questions-
1) You have played both FO 1 and 2
2) You did not save and reload in combat
3) You did not kill slavers or take quests that required you to kill more than three bad guys
4) You skipped all death monster thing combat
5) You did not cheat or use other actual exploits to change the mission timeframes or to make combat easier

 

[undecaf]

answer these questions-

Yes, I've played them plenty of times.
No, I do not savescum in combat.
I did not skip any content my character was able to handle.
I don't cheat. It takes the fun out of it.

 

[Zombra]

If [save scumming] ruins [a player's] experience, it's his business to deal with and not the fault of the game. Exploitability is unfortunate, but if you do it and then bitch about it, you only have yourself to blame.

Nonsense. Game design informs player behavior, period.

 

[undecaf]

If [save scumming] ruins [a player's] experience, it's his business to deal with and not the fault of the game. Exploitability is unfortunate, but if you do it and then bitch about it, you only have yourself to blame.

Nonsense. Game design informs player behavior, period.

I guess we just get informed very differently by the same source. I get nothing from where you get your obsessive compulsive behavior.

One could ask is it me doing it wrong for not savescumming inspite the "design [supposedly] telling me to", or is it you for mistreating it to your own detriment and doing nothing about it?

 

[Zombra]

I guess we just get informed very differently by the same source. I get nothing from where you get your obsessive compulsive behavior.
One could ask is it me doing it wrong for not savescumming inspite the "design [supposedly] telling me to", or is it you for mistreating it to your own detriment and doing nothing about it?

If you think you don't respond to incentives, you're kidding yourself.

 

[undecaf]

I guess we just get informed very differently by the same source. I get nothing from where you get your obsessive compulsive behavior.
One could ask is it me doing it wrong for not savescumming inspite the "design [supposedly] telling me to", or is it you for mistreating it to your own detriment and doing nothing about it?

If you think you don't respond to incentives, you're kidding yourself.

I don't think that (of course I don't). But I don't see one here that'd be so overwhelming I'd feel it twisting my arm. Don't think everyone shares your keen eye for and urge to follow those certain incentives - some might not even always notice they're there for having been preoccupied by something more relevant.

 

[Haplo]

I don't understand this line of thinking TBH. Will I Ironman games or reload when shit hits the fan? I'll reload for sure. Will I treat save scumming as a valid play style to optimize my choices/outcomes/resources? No. Well, maybe sometimes I'll do it anyway, but I sure won't save after every combat turn to avoid losses. That's just stupid.

 

[J_C]

Ok, you keep asking for it.

It also has better chardev than fallout,

LOL!

and way, way better combat

Ok, that's actually debatable. I prefer Fallout combat, varied weapons, impactful aimed shots and the juicy crit table. But many may prefer the party control and limited cover mechanics.

and itemization. I would say it has significantly better systems in general.

Again, LOL!

Only bad thing about Fallout combat is how slow it is.

And how it offers zero tactical element. It is all about your build and gear. You cannot make a good tactical game with only one character to control. Fallout is >>>>>> to Wasteland 2. But Wasteland 2's combat is >>>>>>>>>>> Fallout's combat.

 

[Haplo]

Eh, I don't really agree with this statement. Underrail has excellent tactical combat IMO and you only control one character. IMO Underrail combat >>>>>>>>>> WL2 combat.

If I were feeling generous, I'd maybe rate WL2 combat as > Fallout combat.
But I don't and other elements of Fallout combat, not directly tied to tactical challenge, like perk interactions and impact, aimed shot effects, animations, weapon calibers/types, critical effects make me rate Fallout combat >> WL2 combat. I like my combat awesome. Sue me.

 

[undecaf]

Yeah. Fallout didn't have much in the way of tactics (and I don't think it intended to either) beyond some rudimentary stuff like taking peeks from behind corner, getting inside and closing the door, disarming knocked out opponents... but good tactical gameplay certainly can be done with a single character game.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Ivan]

*meh emoji*

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

What's this, fat people cosplaying as game developers?

 

[Roguey]

I have to admit that arm of Chris is an incredible mix of fat and muscle. He could take up sumo wrestling.

 

[YES!]

Eh, I don't really agree with this statement. Underrail has excellent tactical combat IMO and you only control one character. IMO Underrail combat >>>>>>>>>> WL2 combat.

If I were feeling generous, I'd maybe rate WL2 combat as > Fallout combat.
But I don't and other elements of Fallout combat, not directly tied to tactical challenge, like perk interactions and impact, aimed shot effects, animations, weapon calibers/types, critical effects make me rate Fallout combat >> WL2 combat. I like my combat awesome. Sue me.

Are you saying WL2 DC didn't have everything you listed, but with 4 characters instead of 1? It really seems like you guys go out of the way to not be right about anything.

 

[YES!]

answer these questions-

Yes, I've played them plenty of times.
No, I do not savescum in combat.
I did not skip any content my character was able to handle.
I don't cheat. It takes the fun out of it.

Then you did not play a combat focused character, or your character was a huge pussy. Either way until you play the game to be a bad ass slave killing hero you can't compare. What you are saying is like saying AoD didn't have combat because you played a pussy ass merchant.

When I play a game, I don't ask what should I not do I see what I can do. It doesn't take a ton of save scuming to kill everyone without taking a hit even on your first playthrough with no knowledge of the system other than what the manual tells you, but it certainly requires save scumming on almost every turn until you are missed take very little damage and all your AP goes towards aimed crits to the eye/head/whatever.

This is FO 101. You are a child. I was playing FO when your mother was still whoring around pre-you.

If a game has Ironman I play ironman almost always (I gave up on it in XCOM longwar because I kept wasting my time with a roster of everyone in the hospital, and some games that have it but aren't made for it unless you already play the games and know which enemies have instadeath spells, what chests do, what to avoid, etc. Basically games where it is impossible to do it without being very experienced).

In Arcanum if I pick pockets and get caught I reload. In WL2 if I disarm a bomb and it blows up I reload. I also usually reload until I get a good mod when breaking down a weapon. I don't do that in ToEE because I play ironman and the game was specifically designed for ironman. I don't do that in PoE because I play ironman.

I have no issues setting up my own constraints to make a game fun for me, like in grimoire I made a 6-man party with no recruitables. In WL2 DC I do not take recruitables because it plays so well without them like it was designed for a 4-man party. Etc. But if I'm not playing ironman and I can get a result I want I reload. If a character dies I reload. If I get caught stealing I reload. If a fail to pick a lock and miss a skill up I reload. Why? Because I can. The game is usually designed for that, just as FO 1 and 2 both have quests that you cannot complete without save scumming in combat. Period. Anyone who says they played through without cheating and did all the content thrown at them like a normal person (normal people kill all slavers in games where we are the fucking Chosen One or Vault Dweller or just plain fucking hero). If you play a huge pussy who is morally deprived enough to let slavers live and let bandit rapists keep pillaging and raping don't say I'm playing the game wrong. You clearly are. If it had an ironman mode Tim Cain would have designed the encounters so you could still do the right thing and be successful. It was designed that to complete the quests and do the right and normal hero thing you had to save scum. Period. Period. Any argument otherwise means you are a cheater or play a pussy character in a hero game, which is fine, but don't say that people playing the fucking hero are doing ti wrong.

If you are going to continue lying and talking shit, post some fucking videos of you clearing the death monster caves or killing the rapist bandit camp in the beginning of FO1. Or all the slavers in town 2 of FO 2. Or the giant mole thing in start cave of FO 1.5. You can't post such a video because it can't be done. Period. There is no argument. There is fact and fiction and you spout lies and fiction. I am stating facts. These are self evident facts to anyone who has played these games. If you have figured out some way to just kick everyone's ass without taking more damage than you can ever have the supplies to heal with the limited resources in the early parts of these games then please show us or tell us your magic tricks.

If your argument is still "nuh-uh" then you are just a fucking idiot spouting shit. If you played a pussy non-combat non-hero character then the same, you are talking shit that doesn't matter and isn't relevant to the discussion. I love how Tim Cain's games have non-combat ways for pussies to get shit done, and multiple ways to boot, but saying you don't have to save scum in combat when someone is talking about the big combats is not just disingenuous but fucking retarded as shit. You fucking retarded kids and yoru stupid fucking shit. You just don't stop. You just keep going and going with lies and stupid it fucking kills me. There was a time when you would have been harassed off these forums by the regular posters, but now the regular posters are all as retarded as you and probably agree with you because they have only seen people play games on youtube and think minecraft and pokeman are fucking awesome. Just stop with your nonsense, please. All you kids. Just stop. Go to a general gaming forum where you should be, or just watch people play games on youtube and leave the last few thinking posters here alone.