Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[pocahaunted]

I'll settle for a game that doesn't have a shitty console UI.

 

[jewboy]

What's funny about those flamewars is that they are mild and restrained by codex standards. As far as expectations, I don't have any. I'm not even sure they'll be able to finish the game. I do think there is a good chance that it will be shorter even than ToEE. I don't think Fargo is going to listen to the biodrones. That doesn't mean that they'll make a fun game though. That's not an easy thing to do. It takes more than just good intentions. I'll donate for good intentions from an unproven, but experienced developer, but I have no idea what to expect. It would be inXile's first good game, but there's always gotta be a first. They're not beholden to a publisher now and he's even said publicly that he doesn't give a fuck what the horny hormone tyke crowd craves. I'm optimistic about it being some kind of battle sim, but I'm pessimistic about the chances for well written dialogue and a good story. How many cRPGs have had good stories? There have been polls about that here and the consensus seems to be that PS:T was the only one with some lamers thinking that BG2 deserved a mention for that cliched "I am a God" abomination of a story. Better than most cRPG stories maybe, but it still sucked. I don't think it would be too hard for InXile to come up with a better story than that, but I highly doubt that we're going to see anything remotely like a PS:T story. Their only hope is Jason Anderson, but I'm still skeptical.

 

[Brother None]

However, I don't want to just sit and hope that the game will be great just because the universe owes me at least that much (or because Fallout 2 turned out ok). The best way to help is by criticizing and challenging. No?

Very much so. But tone does matter. The forums got pretty unreadable because of all the retardation and counter-retardation (and again, that is primarily the fault of lax modding), and that just negates all of the feedback rather than tilt the balance either way. What meltdown and Clockwork said is true, it's not really going to work if you give in to frustration. I have been removing threads that went out of line or were too stupid (already got 760 posts in the Retardoland forum. Now that's impressive), so flag em when you see em, otherwise just engage rationally.

One thing I like to do is add polls, like over here and here: http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=349 http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=521
The results of those show there's no real overwhelming threat of retardation taking over. We're not really looking to convert people,but they can make their suggestions. And then they will be talked and voted down. As far as I'm concerned, the forum can function perfectly like that.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

At minimum:

TB combat at least equal to the fallout games(not a herculean task I think you'll agree), a good sensible ui and finally design >= talents of Jeff Vogel
with strong moddability

sadly/happily that will make it one of the best rpgs in many years

 

[udm]

They won't understand.

True. A few do, but it seems the vast majority cannot fathom the logic as to why ridiculed additions to the game should not take precedence over other aspects.

Of those few who do, they've earned my respect, if not my concurrence. Say what you will about ffordesoon, at least the guy's willing to take a step back to see the other side of the picture. These are the guys who can be turned to our side. The rest, well let's just say I hope they won't be disappointed with the final product eh (assuming Fargo's bro enough to not accede to ridiculous requests)

Very much so. But tone does matter. The forums got pretty unreadable because of all the retardation and counter-retardation (and again, that is primarily the fault of lax modding), and that just negates all of the feedback rather than tilt the balance either way. What meltdown and Clockwork said is true, it's not really going to work if you give in to frustration. I have been removing threads that went out of line or were too stupid (already got 760 posts in the Retardoland forum. Now that's impressive), so flag em when you see em, otherwise just engage rationally.

One thing I like to do is add polls, like over here and here: http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=349 http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=521
The results of those show there's no real overwhelming threat of retardation taking over. We're not really looking to convert people,but they can make their suggestions. And then they will be talked and voted down. As far as I'm concerned, the forum can function perfectly like that.

That's more than reasonable. Polls are a good idea too. At the very least it offers a demographic of who's for/against what, without having to spend time writing a well-thought up post and being replied by people who don't have the decency to put in any effort into reading your post first.

-edit- Btw can we have an indication on the W2 forums to show whether a thread has a poll in it? I don't check threads periodically once I've posted my 2 cents in there, so I may miss it if a poll's being set up days after the thread has started.

 

[Brother None]

Good one. I'll add a [poll added] to subject lines of threads I put them into.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Any idea when Fargo starts talking specifics?

 

[Turisas]

Any idea when Fargo starts talking specifics?

Doubt it'll happen until after the kickstarter is wrapped up.

 

[lulurkinglurkerlurk]

Any idea when Fargo starts talking specifics?

According to his recent tweets, he is writing vision document as we speak.
I know nothing about developing or planing,so dunno how long it takes...

 

[hiver]

dammit... CK your unignored. Dont make me regret it dammit!

 

[Crooked Bee]

Any idea when Fargo starts talking specifics?

Well, he says he'll present a vision document as well as a couple of different art style/camera perspective concepts to the fans "soon".

 

[jewboy]

Brother None, if you are going to have the kind of strictly moderated forum that you seem to want I think it is only fair that you post your rules. Just make a list of what is not tolerated. Swearing for instance or any even remotely insulting idea. Things like that. If the words biotard or biodrone are verboten it will certainly be one of the more strictly moderated forums I have participated in. One of those forums I am thinking of now was so strict and deleted so many of people's post's for what I consider absurdly minor infractions that one of the members started his own forum and PM poached at least a good 1/3 of the members who don't participate in the old one anymore. Obviously that's not a threat in this case, but attempting to keep the discussions 100% civil and rational might result in some members not bothering to participate at all because the discussions are too sterile and boring. In general I'm all for civilized logical emotionless discussion. In fact that's one of the reasons I can not consistently stay a member here. I get tired of all the constant fighting. But it's also possible to overdo it. Nevertheless, if Fargo wants a completely clean, rational forum then that is what you should give him. I was one of the ones you gave a warning to btw and my posts were so mild I wouldn't even consider it flaming, but yeah, half my posts would have been deleted on any strictly moderated forums. At the time I had no idea that the forum was going to be strictly moderated. I pretty much always stay within forum rules if I know them.

 

[Stabwound]

Since the game is basically a "go" now, I hope they start the design process ASAP. Waiting a month to get the jew golds when they have a hard release date of Oct 2013 is a lot of time wasted.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Some examples of where the dissonance is coming from. Apparently there are people who donated just because they read 'rpg' and not because it was turn based, etc:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/r1fda/wasteland_2_dev_id_rather_make_a_smaller/

Sorta. I donated and I never played wasteland. I don't get the exploding blood sausage jokes. I don't really know much about the game other than it being the precursor to Fallout 1 and 2 (which I also didn't play), but I still donated because I love good RPGs. There's more to it than strictly hardcore fans.

I'm with you on all of that. I played Fallout 3 and NV, but not the others, just missed them, but I'm old and not going to go back to play them now.

I'm not really sure why I funded this game since I don't like Fallout and have never played Wasteland. Maybe I'm foolish hoping it will be like Baldur's Gate and Planescape.

Well, I don't dislike them. I just can't get in to them. Maybe I don't get far enough, but the narrative seems really light compared to, say, Planescape: Torment.

I loved the original Wasteland. When Fallout came out, and was supposed to be a spiritual successor, I rushed out to get it. I was massively disappointed. It played nothing the same, and I just couldn't get into it. The story, for as far as I got, wasn't bad... But the controls were horrible. I couldn't imagine what they were thinking. Combat in Wasteland was swift and fun. Fallout was slow and clunky.

Wasteland played more like Final Fantasy 1, and Fallout played more like Final Fantasy Tactics.

It remains to be seen how Wasteland 2 will work, but I'm obviously hoping it's just about like W1.

I don't think it is wrong to think about the wider audience. Even the current fanbase might be a larger audience compared to the really dedicated people. At what point/size is a group of players a fanbase or a larger audience?

But it should be pointed out that he made this remark as a response to the very specific question of how the game world is viewed.

And I just threw 15$ down the intertubes to fund it.

consider this advance warning that limiting interaction to backers only will still not guarantee sensible ideas from then on

 

[Brother None]

Since the game is basically a "go" now, I hope they start the design process ASAP. Waiting a month to get the jew golds when they have a hard release date of Oct 2013 is a lot of time wasted.

They are working on design now. They have been for some time. Hell, they stopped the work for a short month before Kickstarter presented itself, and just picked it up again now, using funds from other InXile titles. It'll tide them over until the Kickstarter money is freed up.

Brother None, if you are going to have the kind of strictly moderated forum that you seem to want

I don't. I don't like strictitudes, or absolute rules. I won't delete every post that says "BioWhore" or "BioDrone", what I said was if you "just go" BioWhore, as in that's all your post says, it will most likely be removed. I like long ropes and big leeway, certainly before I start giving out warnings (the mass streak now was just because I was catching up) let alone bannings (we haven't banned anyone except Andhaira and his alts so far, I think, and a load of spambots). What's important to me is that posts are substantive and respectful, over short and dismissive. You can get away with calling someone "kind of an idiot" if you just spent paragraphs explaining why he's stupid. So it's more about common sense than any "absolute" rules.

We'll have rules up soon, but they won't be detailed. Just more common sense stuff. Like, y'know, "don't be an asshole".

Any idea when Fargo starts talking specifics?

Nothing exact. The Vision Document should be here "soon", but obviously it's not something you want to rush. It should clarify a lot but it's mostly there to outline the rough concepts, the goals, what you want to accomplish and boundaries you do not want to overstep. I don't think it'll be very specific (I haven't read any draft yet, though).

Then they go into their half-year pre-design phase, during which they'll actively look for feedback. So unlike your usual process, this entire period will be about talking specifics. I can't give you an exact when though.

 

[lulurkinglurkerlurk]

Sick!
Those abominations born in 90...
I mean no offence because in pile of shit, you can find diamond,but thats rare condition in general.

 

[jewboy]

I figure we need a thread for discussing wasteland 2. We have two more focused ones, but nothing for just random opinions or ideas about it. So FWIW...

Should Gamma World have any influence on the game at all?
How far in the future should the game be set if at all?
How long after the war should the game be set?

If it were set only maybe a decade after the war you wouldn't expect that many people. You'd expect a pretty thinly populated and almost entirely radioactive world. At least where the bombs hit.

Should it steal any ideas from Van Buren? Like the idea of some rival group you are competing with for instance? Apparently Van Buren borrowed quite a few ideas from Wasteland. It seems like it was a major influence on MCA for Van Buren.

How about post-apoc novels from which some good story ideas might be stolen? The Road and A Canticle for Leibowitz I think were already mentioned in the forums. Alas, Babylon and Earth Abides I haven't read.

I'm a sucker for post-apoc novels, but there don't seem to be that many of them. It would be nice if we could throw out some story and strategic combat ideas at the official forum. I don't need much excuse to read more post-apoc novels or play JA2, Silent Storm, and replay ToEE with a close eye for improvements. I'll also have to play Fallout: Tactics I suppose because it looks like it may have a significant influence on wasteland 2 combat.

 

[Turisas]

I'm a sucker for post-apoc novels, but there don't seem to be that many of them.

There's plenty. There's just not many that are actually good (same with post-apoc movies).

 

[Spectacle]

Retards will be retards, but countering their bullshit with rational arguments will sway the undecided into our camp. Trolling and insults will do the opposite.

 

[Outlander]

I'm with you on all of that. I played Fallout 3 and NV, but not the others, just missed them, but I'm old and not going to go back to play them now.

Er... What? Was he still young when he played through New Vegas? I'm confused...

 

[likaq]

I decided not to withdraw my pledge, after all even if W2 will have stupid shit it still will be the best crpg since many years.
And supporting any method of funding games without a publisher is always good thing to do.
I must avoid W2 forum though.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

consider this advance warning that limiting interaction to backers only will still not guarantee sensible ideas from then on

And a perfect reminder of the useful utility of this thread.

 

[Stabwound]

Derps were bound to get in on it considering how many times he says the word "Fallout" in the pitch video, interviews etc. Go and read almost any of the comments on the backer page and you're bound to see someone say "I never played Wasteland but I love Fallout!!!!!!!!!" and in that case they probably mean Fallout 3.

I wouldn't be surprised if this project didn't get funded at all if he wasn't able to namedrop Fallout (not to mention "Baldur's Gate" and others) in every single interview and mention of Wasteland 2. Imagine another scenario: say he was trying to kickstart Bard's Tale 4 this way. The pessimist in me says that it might not even reach its goal over a month of donations.

 

[Oesophagus]

Er... What? Was he still young when he played through New Vegas? I'm confused...

Listen, son. Back in my day we had to pop our own moles. And we ain't never had no regenerating health neither! Why, if you wanted to pick a lock, you had to put on the lockpicking outfit! Darn youngsters with their darn turn based combat...

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

At least he's got his ass covered though in saying all of the important things (top down, turn-based, etc) so that when all the "OMG What is this game I don't get it I want money back!" posts, blogs, whatever start appearing he can simply point to the video and say, "Did you even watch this?"