Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Spectacle]

A kind of post-apocalyptic strategy game centered on a single tribe of survivors and their stronghold would actually be pretty cool, sorta Wasteland meets King of Dragon Pass.

 

[Oriebam]

History repeats itself.
One of the reason why Fallout 2 has stupid shit is because iply was listening to their fans from iply forum. And iply forum was full of retards and biodrones.
If Fargo will listen to these morons from W2 forum W2 is lost.

I really want to be wrong though.

Cool story, since I'm pretty sure Fallout 2 predates Baldur's Gate (the first Bioware RPG)

It doesn't matter, biodrones are a certain types of people who exist well before bioware was created. One can argue that biodrone=certain type of retard.

Pretty much. Everyone who's been around iply forums in their glory days would attest to that. Retards and sycophants were the vocal majority.

From a 2003 thread dedicated to Fallout 3 design ideas gathered from the iply forums (god bless Google):

The weapon nut: "I'd also like to see stuff like Halberds, Swords and Shields, Bows and Arrows, maces, pikes, flails, Panzershreks (German Anti-tank weapon from WWII), the MG-32 (German machine gun, akin to the M-60), the entire weapons list from Fallout Tactics, a Musket or other muzzle-loader...."

The pro-boner quest designer: "I don't know, a new type of quest could be something like you where hired for as a hit man to kill a person and bring there head back. So you eventually find the person you where told to kill but you have a choice of either kill the person and return to the man you who hired you with the head or you can talk to the person and find out that they are incredibly sorry and they where going to have some expensive plastic surgery done to alter there face but the person could not afford it. Then the person will ask if you can pay for it and you can either say yes or no. If you say no you suggest that you can go out in the wasteland and find a no good robber or a slaver and kill them then chop off there head and pay the sergeant to manipulate the robbers head to match the persons exactly. Then you can let the person go and you can go collect your reword from the man who hired you."

The rapist: "Oh yeah, and more blood and gore. And throw rape in there too, if at all possible."

The family guy: "If marriage is in F3 I think it should be fleshed out, maybe one good girl/guy, one inbetween, and one slut, with accompanying side quests (Dads sick must go home NOW or help the Bos, Sulik and the wife getting it on, what do I do now, etc...) with the opportunity for the wife/hubby to increase in skill as any other npc..."

The crazy sci-fi guy: "Why not a fusion cell powered vault axe that kinda looks like a light saber (you all know from starwars) but when it pops out from you clicking the switch it comes out about a foot and has the same look as an axe but it is neon green and slices/burns through objects."

The epic guy: "I really enjoy the CTB system of Fallout Tactic, can you apply it for a massive war scenario..? with dozens of people... and tanks.... and vehicle... with some robot and air attack..... it will become very cool...."

The idiot: "fantastic 3D battle animation form 45 degree perspective.... (diablo II) maybe with some bullet time effect.....the PC can have cool evasion move like Neo.... hey a matrix 45 degree RPG..... I think that cool.....dont forget... Metal Gear Solid 45 degree RPG is also cool...."

The Sims guy: "Maybe one or two small islands off the cost where you could either take months swimming to or take a boat or something. Along with this you could maybe go fishing."

The easily amused guy:

"oh yeah. i'd also like to see a return of the "ask about" feature from fallout 1 if its not that much of a problem.
hours i spent typing in foolish things...
me - "say 'i don't know anything about that' if you are stupid... and smell bad."
tandi - "i don't know anything about that"
me - "ahahah... smelly idiot"
tandi - "i don't know anything about that"

The Final Fantasy guy: "giant swords (so large it takes both weapon spaces and reqires 10 str)"

The stronghold guy: "OWN A TOWN
this is my favorite idea you get to a town thats's completely empty
so you can pay your npc's to work or build things and leave them to gain skill points or abilties as you go adventuring , solve your town's problems and lead them into battle against raiders , the enclave ,ect"

Retards... Retards never change...

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Actually, I think all of this retardation is ultimately a reason to be optimistic. It proves that mentally handicapped people could play and enjoy Fallout too. I bet if EA's marketing told them turn-based combat was the next big thing, they'd buy the game and think it's awesome.

 

[Menckenstein]

The rapist: "Oh yeah, and more blood and gore. And throw rape in there too, if at all possible."

"I have no dick and I must rape."

 

[Vault Dweller]

Hey man, in all seriousness are we gonna see AoD before Oct 2013?

Why does it matter? These are two very different games.

Also, what do you think of possibly letting Fargo use your game engine for wasteland 2?

It's a silly notion.

First, getting an engine means shit if your programmers aren't familiar with it (anyone remembers Torn and the issues Black Isle had with Lithtech engine?) and Torque - a client-server engine designed for first-person shooters - is a very, very cumbersome engine. We used it because it was cheap - $100 to try.

Second, to use the engine for something else, they will have to scrap all but the basics (turns and APs), and the basics are never an issue. It's the details (the combat depth) that takes the most time, testing, and balance.

Our engine has value either for someone who would want to make an exactly the same game (kinda like using the Spiderweb editor to make more of the same (same systems, different story) or for someone like Brian & Annie (two writer/designers), not for a proper, sufficiently funded team.

 

[Anthony Davis]

A good strategy in game development is to identify 3 or 4 core game "pillars". Every single thing added to the game must be in service to those pillars. What you we should do here is to try and identify what those 3 to 4 pillars are, then spread the word over at the other forums.

Pillar 1??
Pillar 2??
Pillar 3??
Pillar 4??


What do you guys think?

I can start with one:
Pillar 1: Exploration of the world is both exciting and thematically inline with the tone of Wasteland 1.

(I am not a game designer, so you can probably think of better pillars than this)

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Because i afraid that sooner or later these morons will become overwhelming majority. And very vocal majority. This is why i afraid that Fargo will try to cater to them.

Dude (dudes) just chill out. At least wait until he releases the vision document. I think we're fine. There's no way he's putting those sad clowns before us. There's just no way. Lipservice.

Also: http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8860#p8860

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Fallout 3 design ideas gathered from the iply forums

inspired by herr weller, I did a little search

some of these threads have rosh posting in them as well so enjoy his cuddly prophetic goodness

"Some thoughts about new fallout" - 2000 (about FOT)
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31119

As far as I can tell, FO: BOS is going to be a game like JA2/XCOM. None of which is a "kiddie" game, which suggests to me that you, perhaps, are not familiar with them. They are pretty much hardcore strat games - the C&C crowd is not attracted to them. The kiddies that love Diablo/BG are not going to be attracted to a "thinking man's" strategy game, which is what these games are. That is why I think your concern is misplaced. If anything it might draw some hardcore strat fans into the RPG genre.

also in the thread: an early example of the patented 'quote and conquer' forum battling style

"WHO SHOULD BE THE ENEMY" - 2000
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29552

im going to cast my vote for canida as the bad people in FO3 the only thing better then that would be mex

"Suggestions for FO3" - 2005
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=179255

Let's say in F2 you donated sperm to Vault City. They used it, but the offspring were reckless. They started riots in Vault City and you're one of the rioters. You fight and fight until you and your rebel faction overthrow the Grand Council. but then the reactor fails and you need more electricty and all hell breaks lose...

A multiplayer setup where you are able to play in lan or something like that with your friends and have multiable story finishes and startings , also that you and your friends would be able to finish the game in Cooparation style.

A food system would be as simple as merely having food and the player character eating it automatically. Keeping it as a purely survivalistic aspect passes up a prime roleplaying opportunity, however.

Say, for instance, the Pipboy has a mealplanner. In this mealplanner, the player can set the player character's diet based on what foods are available to the party. The kinds of foods the player character eats may have certain positive and negative side effects.

Breads for instance, wouldn't have very significant positive or negative effects, and something like the limitless shelf-life of pre-war calorie rations would have no effects.

A diet high in brahmin meat or jerky, however, would be high in protein. This would lead to a slight increase for unarmed and melee combat modifiers, and the eventual acquisition of a strength boost. The player character would have to maintain this high protein diet to maintain the stat boost, though, in order to keep the player from abusing food related perks.

Other diets could lead to the acquisition of traits as well. A diet high in gecko meat, for instance, could lead to the acquisition of the Gecko Eater trait. A player character with Gecko Eater would have a higher rad resistance, but at the same time would suffer negative effects on its sex appeal, which would manifest by NPC's referring to it as "gecko breath."

A cooking skill has potential, but making it for the preservation of food puts too much strain on the player in regards to experience allocation.

Instead, a cooking skill could be dedicated to the preparation of food in the post-apocalyptic world. A high cooking skill would lead to better positive diet benefits and less significant negative side affects. Higher cooking skills would also lead to a faster acquistion of perks, such as the beforementioned strenght boost, and traits like the Gecko Eater.

A high cooking skill would also allow the player character to participate effectively in cooking related side quests. Say, for instance, an agrarian community has sprung up in a more fertile area of the wastes, such as Modoc and the Ghost Farm. Every year, the community would celebrate a harvest festival that lasts for a week. This festival would be implemented by a more "festive" town appearance and the ability to participate in an Iron Chef style contest. The precept being that it was inspired by pre-war pop culture.

A vault dweller player character with a high perception would recognize this from his or her viewing of old entertainment reels in the vault. The participants would be given a "secret ingredient" to work with, and the player character's cooking skill would determine what dishes the player could select to make in dialogue options. To keep this from being too frustrating, all the dishes would have the same effect since they're all in the same quality bracket determined by the player character's skill. The joke behind the festival would be that if the player character returned for another year's festival, the secret ingredient would be the same thing. This ingredient would also be the community's chief product.

A refridgeration unit could also be acquired for the player character's vehicle. The benefits being that it'd take longer for food to spoil. The drawbacks, though, would be less space in the trunk, and a greater energy demand from the vehicle.

The player character could recruit a "Cookie" PNPC. The benefits would be enjoying the aspect of a high cooking skill without having to invest in the cooking skill itself, but Cookie would be slightly sub-par in combat, and the player character couldn't participate effectively in cooking related side quests.

In order to unreqruit an NPC, the player character would have to give him or her some food to convince them to leave. The amount of food it would take to convince them to leave would depend on the location you unreqruit them. In a town, the NPC's demand for food would be less, but out in the middle of the wastes, the player can expect to receive a significant demand.

bros on an unrelated note I would play the shit out of Rune Factory - Nuclear edition

"My Landscape Idea" - 2006
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18635

I deem that a new Fallout would look best when set on an island maze in the Caribbean or Pacific. Yes i know this may not seem conformist as it is not prone and would not be related directly the nuclear action prior to events of the first Fallout. But the possibilities of design and player enjoyment would be large; wouldn't you like to cross the sea in a boat instead of spent time walking past generic wasteland? Obviously a large quantity of Fallout would have to be set on land mass; however the travelling aspect could be partly or mostly based on water to enable more enjoyment. You could even conceive of buying a boat like the secondary Fallout car presented inThe Den.

will do mr costner

"Customizable Character" - 2006
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18703

I skimmed through the suggestion forum and didn't find any specific thread about this, and rankly I'm surprised there isn't a suggestion like this already...

Anyway, only of the major disappointments in Fallot 2 was the fact I couldn't customize my character. I was hoping for more models in teh second, but it just wasn't to be.

Anyway, I was thinking that perhaps Fallout 3 should have the feature to make your character the way you what him/her to look like, such as hair color, build, clothing, ornaments and decorations on armors and stuff, that sort of thing. Maybe items change you gather change your appearance, which would also allow the game to have more equipable item slots, like gloves, headgear, boots, and belts. These things would influence how NPCs react to you and how combat flows. Heh. Pink gas masks!

Another idea is involuntary customization. Your character's appearance changes when you make them and certain features could be tweaked, like if you get 'Small Build': Your character is a lot smaller than the standard. Also, as your skills increase, your appearance changes. If you enhance in sneak or thief skills your character wears more black and his posture changes. Or doctor skills, in which your character wears more white.

+

"Ok, this is probably going to be opposed quite viciously but" - 2000

In reference to the possibility of a fallout 3......I have one idea which could change the face of the gaming world and make the fallout series even more of a legend than at present.

Point: look at the remarkable success of Half-Life, two years since it's release, and it still recieves game of the year awards. Ok then, how about a half life type game, but with a fallout storyline......Wait, save your abuse. I do not mean to merely make a half-life clone, but to give serious consideration to making fallout 3 follow a similar path. Think about it before you criticize me for trying to make fallout fps. Any of you out there who have ever played half-life, will agree with me that it is not, by any means a straight fps it involves much more than mere shooting and running.

However, this could be drawn even further away from fps, using the fallout RPG content.

Another point, what made half-life so successful?
The engrossing plot, that's what.
But just imagine the sheer extent of the depth and atmosphere that could be portrayed on the same platform using a fallout storyline, take either fallout1, fallout2 or a completely new fallout (3?) concept (but not straying from the roots of the fallout history and what do you have, a ground-breaking, land-marking and all round lengend of a title. Think of the success of half-life, and realise that with a fallout storyline, that could have been THE game....period! It still could be.......

 

[Brother None]

Are you guys serious?

As if Wasteland forums aren't a headache enough to moderate as people from different communities stream in, you had to make it *worse* by targeted trolling? This is making the job of us moderators and the InXile staff significantly harder. This is the opposite of being helpful.

The "let's have BioWare romance!" threads aren't a problem. Because they're being posted by a minority, shouted down quickly. For hot threads, we often add polls and so far all the non-hardcore options have been getting shot down hard. Even if they weren't, InXile isn't stupid, they remember how this worked in the Interplay days, as Vince explained above, they don't have a problem separating the wheat from the chaff. This game will have a vision document. No amount of google voting will get it to stray from said document. Hell, one of the first things Fargo brough up when talking to me about the game's design was whether or not romance should be in, and, well, I don't think it will be. Certainly not in BioWare's way.

Well. It's not like I can tell anyone to stop. It'd be better for InXile (and me) if you did, but y'now, I can't tell you to.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Well. It's not like I can tell anyone to stop. It'd be better for InXile (and me) if you did, but y'now, I can't tell you to.

Why not? I'm pretty sure they would listen.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Well. It's not like I can tell anyone to stop..

Oh, cool. Father None weighed in.

Anyway:

Part of the reason we have the excitement we do is there is this general feeling that the games have been dumbed down for the masses. Politically correct situations, linear events, being careful no one gets lost etc...it can be kind of lame.

Awesome.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Cross-forum trolling and then complaining that the forums are full of tards (because nobody can tell friend [in disguise] from foe).

How can anyone not love the Codex?

 

[Brother None]

Well. It's not like I can tell anyone to stop. It'd be better for InXile (and me) if you did, but y'now, I can't tell you to.

Why not?

Oh, I'll start banning people from the WL2 forums soon. I've been away most of this week and Joby/Ben aren't particularly active, but I couldn't have predicted the mess people would make of it in this short time. It's impressive, in its own way.

But it's not my place to tell people how to behave here. If you really think troll-attacking the forums of the company you are otherwise passionately supporting *is a good idea*, I don't think I could convince you otherwise.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Yes, BN. That's exactly the intent of this thread. To troll.

 

[bonescraper]

This thread is now locked. We can try this subject again later when the community is less divided and - hopefully - more mature.

Hopefully, it will stay closed.

I'd call this a victory.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Well. It's not like I can tell anyone to stop. It'd be better for InXile (and me) if you did, but y'now, I can't tell you to.

Why not? I'm pretty sure they would listen.

Andhaira and Prosper wouldn't. Falloutgod13 or whatever is also a Codex-related troll of some sort. Kinda sounds like 1eyedking imo.

 

[Brother None]

That thread was going to be locked anyway. I'm going back through it now to give people their well-deserved warnings.

We have been lax on moderating. That's a big part of the problem. A lot of these counter-Codex trolls in particular are a headache. Wading through em.

Anyway, I'm asking you to stop. But you don't have to listen.

Yes, BN. That's exactly the intent of this thread. To troll.

Yes. This isn't high science. If you have honest counter-points and opinions to share, you don't need a special thread, you'd just join the masses voting and talking down bad propositions. The intent of this thread is to single out forum users and then abuse them because you don't agree with their opinions. That's...well...that's Codex for you, but I always figured that even now the Codex was smart enough to realize this behavior is never constructive, and would reserve it for us against the likes of Bethesda and BioWare, not, y'know, the people working on Wasteland 2.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Yes. This isn't high science. If you have honest counter-points and opinions to share, you don't need a special thread. The intent of this thread is to single out forum users and then abuse them because you don't agree with their opinions. That's...well...that's Codex for you, but I always figured that even now the Codex was smart enough to realize this behavior is never constructive, and would reserve it for us against the likes of Bethesda and BioWare, not, y'know, the people working on Wasteland 2.

No, that is a byproduct of this thread. Not the thread's intention. There has been a bit of a panic in the air, what with some people nearly about to withdraw their pledges, because of the recent 21st century gaming contingency flood on the official forum. This thread was created to highlight problem threads and vote them down and provide counter opinions. That's it. Whether it happened in a way in which you approve of is a different story, but that's what this was about. Keeping track of threads. This isn't high science.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

- All characters can die because everything is fair in combat - for both you and AI, you and the enemy
I agree that everyone should die, BUT companions, I think the other companions should just get knocked out unless all is killed. The reason is that its silly having to go all the way back to X place to get a new character or do a load screen to load before a fight. Some things HAVE been improved upon.

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7736#p7736

Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[Dexter]

Well. It's not like I can tell anyone to stop. It'd be better for InXile (and me) if you did, but y'now, I can't tell you to.

Why not?

Oh, I'll start banning people from the WL2 forums soon. I've been away most of this week and Joby/Ben aren't particularly active, but I couldn't have predicted the mess people would make of it in this short time. It's impressive, in its own way.

But it's not my place to tell people how to behave here. If you really think troll-attacking the forums of the company you are otherwise passionately supporting *is a good idea*, I don't think I could convince you otherwise.

The entire forum will turn to shit soon anyway with or without this, only proper way to police it is to make a closed section for backers to discuss and vote on stuff and send everyone an Activation Link for one Account per Mail after the Kickstarter ends (like Double Fine plans to) and make a "public section" for everyone else to discuss and troll around in, you guys should definitely do that as it would keep both sides in check and promote actual discussion, otherwise (e.g. leaving it open for everyone) the entire forum-experiment is doomed from the start xD

 

[Brother None]

Yeah, I'm sure the "Hall of Retards" was just well-intented ribaldry, as are all the posts currently dotting the WL2 forum about "retards" and "Biowhores" and "newfags". That's not clearly traceable to a source, at all.

Eh. I know better than to try to convince you of anything. So like I said, if you really thought this kind of behavior is "helpful" to InXile or to keep out the opinion of "modernizing" people, I can't convince you otherwise. So far, the main effect of this great effort has been to drown out a lot of valid opinions with white noise. Good job.

The entire forum will turn to shit soon anyway with or without this, only proper way to police it is to make a closed section for backers to discuss and vote on stuff and send everyone an Activation Link per Mail after the Kickstarter ends (like Double Fine plans to) and make a "public section" for everyone else to discuss and troll around in, you guys should definitely do that as it would keep both sides in check and promote actual discussion, otherwise the entire forum-experiment is doomed from the start xD

Obviously. Like I said, we were/are a little short-staffed, but it would've gone a lot better if not for efforts like these.

We'll probably make a backers-only forum later. But not now, there's not enough to discuss, and the backer list isn't finalized yet. Besides, at this rate a bunch of backers will be banned before said forum even goes up.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Jesus christ you are the most perpetual fucking buzzkill in history.

 

[skuphundaku]

Yes. This isn't high science. If you have honest counter-points and opinions to share, you don't need a special thread, you'd just join the masses voting and talking down bad propositions. The intent of this thread is to single out forum users and then abuse them because you don't agree with their opinions. That's...well...that's Codex for you, but I always figured that even now the Codex was smart enough to realize this behavior is never constructive, and would reserve it for us against the likes of Bethesda and BioWare, not, y'know, the people working on Wasteland 2.

But you nailed right there: most of the codex "trolls" on the WL2 forum weren't there to make the life hard for the people working on WL2. They were there because the WL2 forum was invaded by Bethesda and BioWare fans spouting nonsense and they wanted to act as a counter-weight. If nobody would have stood up against that nonsense, then it would have looked like nobody disagreed with what they were saying. Who's to say that the WL2 devs wouldn't have taken that as a confirmation that what the Bio/Beth fans were asking for was unanymously supported and, thus, decided to implement it? We (oldfag RPG players) have been constantly shafted for more than a decade and this is not the time to lay down and die as the biodrones get their way once again.

 

[Stabwound]

The entire forum will turn to shit soon anyway with or without this, only proper way to police it is to make a closed section for backers to discuss and vote on stuff and send everyone an Activation Link for one Account per Mail after the Kickstarter ends (like Double Fine plans to) and make a "public section" for everyone else to discuss and troll around in, you guys should definitely do that as it would keep both sides in check and promote actual discussion, otherwise (e.g. leaving it open for everyone) the entire forum-experiment is doomed from the start xD

Do exactly this. Private forums for backers only. Please suggest this to Fargo and the rest of the team.

It will keep the stupidity to a minimum, and the Codex trolling should be virtually eliminated if you only get one account.

I think it's great to have a legit discussion about why gay desert sex shouldn't get in the game, but trolling and ending up with a 50 page thread doesn't help anything.

 

[Grimlorn]

Yeah, I'm sure the "Hall of Retards" was just well-intented ribaldry, as are all the posts currently dotting the WL2 forum about "retards" and "Biowhores" and "newfags". That's not clearly traceable to a source, at all.

Eh. I know better than to try to convince you of anything. So like I said, if you really thought this kind of behavior is "helpful" to InXile or to keep out the opinion of "modernizing" people, I can't convince you otherwise. So far, the main effect of this great effort has been to drown out a lot of valid opinions with white noise. Good job.

The entire forum will turn to shit soon anyway with or without this, only proper way to police it is to make a closed section for backers to discuss and vote on stuff and send everyone an Activation Link per Mail after the Kickstarter ends (like Double Fine plans to) and make a "public section" for everyone else to discuss and troll around in, you guys should definitely do that as it would keep both sides in check and promote actual discussion, otherwise the entire forum-experiment is doomed from the start xD

Obviously. Like I said, we were/are a little short-staffed, but it would've gone a lot better if not for efforts like these.

We'll probably make a backers-only forum later. But not now, there's not enough to discuss, and the backer list isn't finalized yet. Besides, at this rate a bunch of backers will be banned before said forum even goes up.

Why not hire some codexers as mods to moderate the forum. They can close all the stupid threads or delete them. I'm not talking about the people over there trolling, but there's probably a few members here that have the time and care enough about Wasteland 2 to do the right thing.