Game News Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Now Live!

[commie]

though by then it would mostly be going to fund a future project as much of the work would be already completed

Well, who knows. It could go over budget.

Or it could fund the inevitable patches for game-breaking bugs.

Your well of pessimism is endlessly deep.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

game-breaking bugs.

I doubt there will be anything game-breaking but there will inevitably be bugs. Great thing though...is that we already have a rapport with the developers and I doubt we'll have to sit around wondering what the fuck is going on like people do at the AAA title games' forums.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Only 20$ will be the final pricetag? Interesting, I would have expected more like 30$/35$.

this is probably the clearest indicator that games don't need to cost that much, after publisher leeching and bullshit marketing + limousines for journalists are taken out of the equation

they shouldn't move it lower than that for a while though, to keep perception of the product above budget indie game levels

when will my console brothers see kickstarters for their platforms???

 

[Johannes]

Actually the real thing to be butthurt about is that you cannot freely pick what OS you play the game on. Nobody wants to pay extra for that, it's just a nasty inconvenience.


If I'm allowed to install my Linux version on whatever computers with the OS I have, there's no point in not allowing me to install it on the Windows partition too. If I was gonna install it on my neighbors Mac, so what, I could pirate it for her too if I'd be inclined to do that.

 

[Johannes]

though by then it would mostly be going to fund a future project as much of the work would be already completed

Well, who knows. It could go over budget.

Or it could fund the inevitable patches for game-breaking bugs.

this beta is so buggy, oh god please take my money to fix your broken shit

 

[Temaperacl]

Actually the real thing to be butthurt about is that you cannot freely pick what OS you play the game on. Nobody wants to pay extra for that, it's just a nasty inconvenience.

If I'm allowed to install my Linux version on whatever computers with the OS I have, there's no point in not allowing me to install it on the Windows partition too. If I was gonna install it on my neighbors Mac, so what, I could pirate it for her too if I'd be inclined to do that.

I'm sure you are allowed to install it (although you may have to do it manually) on your second OS partition. The main issue you will have is if it will run or not.

[Edit: Addition] They are after all, most likely different binaries. Out of curiousity, where does the expectation that you can get it for any OS come from? I'm asking this in seriousness, since my assumption was the exact opposite - that i would get a single set of binaries available for a purchase (which, obviously, would not run on all OSes). I'm wondering when this assumption changed since I see many people having the "buy once, run anywhere" assumption.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Only 20$ will be the final pricetag? Interesting, I would have expected more like 30$/35$.

It makes sense. 15$ for kickstarter, 20$ to preorder, and I guess ~30 after release.

this is probably the clearest indicator that games don't need to cost that much, after publisher leeching and bullshit marketing + limousines for journalists are taken out of the equation

It always depends on the budget and the number of units sold. You could sell one game comfortably for 1$, another could cost 250$ and still not be enough.
It's this fixation on a price of 50$, later 75$ or whatever they charge now, that I never got.

 

[Burning Bridges]

So, anyone thinks it would be a good idea for them to give people the option to up their pledge once they have a beta? I'd be willing to give more if I like what I see.
Probably won't work on Kickstarter, so maybe have some way that people who used Kickstarter can up the pledge through Paypal? Maybe it's too complicated... and maybe they'd even start production on the physical items by then...

I guess they will do that, if it is somehow possible.
I first wanted to suggest you could buy another copy, but I know this is not the same.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I think what matters now is that they have now a solid budget of ca. 2.5 million, and that this should be absolutely enough to produce a first rate "indie" game, in the planned timeframe.

More money will come from preorders and sales, perhaps even millions more. In any case, if they don't go over budget, they need not worry that people will only torrent it like indie games.

They can now get down to producing the kick-ass game they want for 18 months and probably a lot more ..

 

[Burning Bridges]

Some years ago my idea was that people should give a larger sum, like a couple hundred dollars, to fund really good niche games.

Think of JA3 with features way beyond the scope of 1.13, and support for years, for 250$. If there were only 1000 initial backers, it could already work.

I actually suggested this several times in the subsim community, before SH3 (at the time there was bitching on codexian level because there had been no good U-boat sim for almost 10 years)

Now we get WL2 etc for much less. But it took almost a decade for this to happen.

 

[Burning Bridges]

There is also the model of Rise of Flight.

They only sell planes, for constant development. In a community that was just as desperate for a new WW1 flight sim after RB2, this seems to work.

I really like this model. Because instead of hundreds of games with a fixed binary, stupid bugs which would only need a few lines of code to be changed, and only mods to squeeze out the rest, I want only a few good games, which are improved for years after they are released.

This must also be much more satifsfying for the programmers.

 

[asper]

"Think of JA3 with features way beyond the scope of 1.13, and support for years"

This is way, way, way more than Fargo is doing with W2. It's a project of awesome complexity that would take 6-7 years to create, maybe a decade.

That said, I'd pay 250$ for what you describe in a heartbeat. But how many people like me are there? 60k people paid for Wasteland 2, that is really not very much, you have to include the Bioware and Bethesda fans that hopped on the bandwagon there.

 

[Burning Bridges]

"Think of JA3 with features way beyond the scope of 1.13, and support for years"

This is way, way, way more than Fargo is doing with W2. It's a project of awesome complexity that would take 6-7 years to create, maybe a decade.

That said, I'd pay 250$ for what you describe in a heartbeat. But how many people like me are there? 60k people paid for Wasteland 2, that is really not very much, you have to include the Bioware and Bethesda fans that hopped on the bandwagon there.

Yes, this is the question that always comes up.

But you are throwing around figures wildly. I don't see why this could not be done in 2-3 years, for a few hundred thousand dollars, by dedicated people with the right skills.
It's not like 1.13 is as complex as Windows.

In the end he problem is probably not to find the 1000 backers I mentioned, but to find a team that can pull it off.
I would be mightily pissed if I gave them that much money and then they don't.

 

[asper]

I need Vault Dweller to chime in here and post his list of development times of well-known RPGs, that he always uses to justify the time he's working on AoD. It goes something like - ToEE 5 years, BG, 4 years, Bloodlines, 5 yeas, etc. etc. A proper Jagged Alliance is a much more complex game than any of those, not to mention with the functionality of 1.13. I mean, how long did it take those modders to reach 1.13?

I really find the time frame Fargo says W2 will be completed in a bit ridiculous. 18 months for a tactical turn based party RPG with extended story and C&C...? They still need to pick an engine! How much work could Jason Anderson have done on his own already?

 

[Burning Bridges]

I mean, how long did it take those modders to reach 1.13?

I think this is where you are wrong, and I think you do not understand how projects like 1.13 work. I take a game developed by a few guys over such a chaos any day. All the important work on 1.13 was done in the beginning, by now it went full derp.

Confutse says: If three men can dig a hole in 2 hours, it doesn't mean 10,000 men do it in 2 seconds.

I need Vault Dweller to chime in here and post his list of development times of well-known RPGs, that he always uses to justify the time he's working on AoD. It goes something like - ToEE 5 years, BG, 4 years, Bloodlines, 5 yeas, etc. et

I said 2-3 years, quite close to these figures if you leave out fancy 3d engines and publisher/development chaos.

I also don't see how Fargo is going to make it in 18 months, but theoretically it can be done.

 

[Roguey]

I need Vault Dweller to chime in here and post his list of development times of well-known RPGs, that he always uses to justify the time he's working on AoD. It goes something like - ToEE 5 years, BG, 4 years, Bloodlines, 5 yeas, etc. etc.

Those numbers are off, ToEE took 19 months and BG and Bloodlines took three years each.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Never claimed anything about ToEE. It was a fast project and it shows. As for development times, I do believe that a decent RPG takes about 3 years. Some take 4-5 (like the Witcher).

http://books.google.ch/books?id=lroZsP4zyIYC&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=Gamer's at work tim cain&source=bl&ots=K8MU3lwCiU&sig=lbxvqk5_w4-i0WFh488r5QVp4t8&hl=de&sa=X&ei=5dZ5T8iUIsTsObb-zOAN&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Gamer's at work tim cain&f=false

Tim Cain: "With that said, the Vampire had been under development for three years. While that's not a long time for a role-playing game - Fallout had taken three and a half years to develop..."

I'd say that Fargo will need a LOT longer than 18 months (and he probably knows it) or he will have to cut a LOT of corners.

 

[Johannes]

"Think of JA3 with features way beyond the scope of 1.13, and support for years"

This is way, way, way more than Fargo is doing with W2. It's a project of awesome complexity that would take 6-7 years to create, maybe a decade.

That said, I'd pay 250$ for what you describe in a heartbeat. But how many people like me are there? 60k people paid for Wasteland 2, that is really not very much, you have to include the Bioware and Bethesda fans that hopped on the bandwagon there.

What? You're totally blowing out of proportion what kind of effort it'd be to make a game like JA2 1.13 (or your idea for JA3 is way beyond JA2). What's so awesomely complex in a JA3 that WL2 won't have? Nothing that'd take years and years to do, really. How long was JA2 in development anyway?

 

[Kz3r0]

Never claimed anything about ToEE. It was a fast project and it shows. As for development times, I do believe that a decent RPG takes about 3 years. Some take 4-5 (like the Witcher).

I'd say that Fargo will need a LOT longer than 18 months (and he probably knows it) or he will have to cut a LOT of corners.

No cinematics and no VA should help.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It's not like it takes 18 months to make core gameplay and then another 18 months to do cinematics and voice-overs.

 

[Stinger]

Didn't Fallout have a pretty shaky development time to begin with? It came close to getting cancelled twice.

18 months might be cutting it a little close but they might be able to pull it off if the team has a clear enough vision from the outset. I guess it probably helps that Jason Anderson already concepted a fair bit of the game.

 

[Stabwound]

Yeah. I'm hoping that even if they're approaching 18 months but aren't done, they're not going to throw it out the door in an unfinished state. Anyone would rather have a late game than a broken and unfinished one. Also, if they put out a disaster of a Wasteland 2 it would be the end of the kickstarter thing for Fargo, and he seems pretty keen to keep doing it.

 

[Jaesun]

Yeah. I'm hoping that even if they're approaching 18 months but aren't done, they're not going to throw it out the door in an unfinished state. Anyone would rather have a late game than a broken and unfinished one. Also, if they put out a disaster of a Wasteland 2 it would be the end of the kickstarter thing for Fargo, and he seems pretty keen to keep doing it.

Agreed. I backed this and even if it run's late so they can finish what they want to achieve that's fine.

Hell I've been waiting since Thursday for TAoD and well... it's coming soon. But I'd rather VD and CO. finish what he want's to present as a finished product (in a reasonable manner).

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Also, you guys need to keep in mind they've already got over a year's worth of development time put into this pre-Kickstarter. I seriously doubt they'd be fucking about with this much money and peoples' reputations at stake. At least I'd rather believe they're smart adults who know how to plan properly than the alternative...that they bit off more than they could chew and their eyes were bigger than their stomachs.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Yeah. I'm hoping that even if they're approaching 18 months but aren't done, they're not going to throw it out the door in an unfinished state. Anyone would rather have a late game than a broken and unfinished one. Also, if they put out a disaster of a Wasteland 2 it would be the end of the kickstarter thing for Fargo, and he seems pretty keen to keep doing it.

I think the vast majority of backers are prepared to give them up to a year more. And Fargo will not want to release a broken or sucking game for sure, what would be the point of that. The real problem I am afraid of are kickstarters which run for 18 months, then another 18, and then still no end in sight.