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Unofficial Arcanum Patch (Original Thread)

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Drog Black Tooth

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Gah said:
Do you mean create another different character from the beginning and start playing through again?
There' s no "quick fix". Old saves aren't compatible. Start a new game for each update of the patch, or don't update if you wish to continue playing your current character.

1234 said:
Wouldn't that just be asking for trouble?
What do you mean?

We've been fixing a lot of typos lately, I believe it'd be a good idea to organize the process. If anybody cares, of course. If not - I'll start slowly reading through them myself, one by one. I've been fixing the game alone for 4 months already, I'll carry on.
 

BillyOgawa

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Drog Black Tooth said:
Also, I have an idea considering this insane amount of typos. What do you guys think, if I upload all dialogs and we read through all of them, to fix all typos once and for all? There's around 700 dialogs in the game, that's 5.6 MB of text (about a third of this are female lines, of course). If at least 5 people volunteer, I'll upload the dialogs and each person will be assigned his/her part (let's say 500 lines), and we'll see how it turns out. I suppose, we should narrow down the requirements to native speakers only to ensure the quality. Any suggestions are welcome, of course.
I approve of this idea.
 

Kharza

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It indeed would be a good idea to organize the typo-hunting. I'm no native, but I'm up for it, if need be. The easiest way would be running a spell check program on dialogues and check the problematic words/sentences manually if they really are incorrect.
 

MaskedMan

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Yeah, I'd like to get in too, if you can't get the required number of natives. I think this is a good idea, as long as it's kept open, with reports in this thread, so that it's easier to detect and shoot down any false positives ( :oops: ). I get the impression that these fixes are relatively easy, and it would be nice to get it out of the way.
 

1234

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Drog Black Tooth said:
1234 said:
Wouldn't that just be asking for trouble?
What do you mean?

We've been fixing a lot of typos lately, I believe it'd be a good idea to organize the process. If anybody cares, of course. If not - I'll start slowly reading through them myself, one by one. I've been fixing the game alone for 4 months already, I'll carry on.

There is alot of text. There are alot of idiots out on the internet. I can just imagine entire lines of dialog accidentally being erased or "revised". You'll end up talking to an NPC who enjoys saying r00fles and gives you the Magickal Multiheaded Dick Sword. Maybe someone thinks that grammar is actually spelled grammer and believes that there should be more exclamation points.

Eventually, you'll have to review all the revisions yourself, which defeats the purpose of outsourcing the editing in the first place.

You labeled my icon fixes as being unncessary. Can you not see that making sure every "it is" contraction has the proper apostrophe is equally, if not even more unnecessary? Having a grammatically correct Arcanum through and through would be fucking amazing, but it's not realistic unless you're willing to enslave yourself.
 

Relayer71

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1234 said:
Drog Black Tooth said:
1234 said:
Wouldn't that just be asking for trouble?
What do you mean?

We've been fixing a lot of typos lately, I believe it'd be a good idea to organize the process. If anybody cares, of course. If not - I'll start slowly reading through them myself, one by one. I've been fixing the game alone for 4 months already, I'll carry on.

There is alot of text. There are alot of idiots out on the internet. I can just imagine entire lines of dialog accidentally being erased or "revised". You'll end up talking to an NPC who enjoys saying r00fles and gives you the Magickal Multiheaded Dick Sword. Maybe someone thinks that grammar is actually spelled grammer and believes that there should be more exclamation points.

Eventually, you'll have to review all the revisions yourself, which defeats the purpose of outsourcing the editing in the first place.

You labeled my icon fixes as being unncessary. Can you not see that making sure every "it is" contraction has the proper apostrophe is equally, if not even more unnecessary? Having a grammatically correct Arcanum through and through would be fucking amazing, but it's not realistic unless you're willing to enslave yourself.

"alot" should be 2 words: a lot. You got it right in the firs paragraph but not in the 2nd.
There should be 2 spaces after periods.
"If not" should have been followed by a comma, not a dash.
Comma not necessary here: "revisions yourself, which defeats".
Typo: "Unncessary".
 
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Relayer71 said:
There should be 2 spaces after periods.
Use one space after all punctuation, including periods, question marks, exclamation points, and colons. Putting two spaces after these marks of punctuation is a convention that evolved because typewriters were equipped only with monospaced fonts, which made it difficult to see where sentences ended. Professional typographers have always used only one space because they use proportionally spaced fonts, which do not require the extra spaces in order for a series of sentences to be readable. Because most of the fonts in today's word processing software programs are proportional, in other words, we do not need to put an additional space after end punctuation or colons when we use our computers to compose.
http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/011803.htm
 

1234

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Relayer71 said:
1234 said:
Drog Black Tooth said:
1234 said:
Wouldn't that just be asking for trouble?
What do you mean?

We've been fixing a lot of typos lately, I believe it'd be a good idea to organize the process. If anybody cares, of course. If not - I'll start slowly reading through them myself, one by one. I've been fixing the game alone for 4 months already, I'll carry on.

There is alot of text. There are alot of idiots out on the internet. I can just imagine entire lines of dialog accidentally being erased or "revised". You'll end up talking to an NPC who enjoys saying r00fles and gives you the Magickal Multiheaded Dick Sword. Maybe someone thinks that grammar is actually spelled grammer and believes that there should be more exclamation points.

Eventually, you'll have to review all the revisions yourself, which defeats the purpose of outsourcing the editing in the first place.

You labeled my icon fixes as being unncessary. Can you not see that making sure every "it is" contraction has the proper apostrophe is equally, if not even more unnecessary? Having a grammatically correct Arcanum through and through would be fucking amazing, but it's not realistic unless you're willing to enslave yourself.

"alot" should be 2 words: a lot. You got it right in the firs paragraph but not in the 2nd.
There should be 2 spaces after periods.
"If not" should have been followed by a comma, not a dash.
Comma not necessary here: "revisions yourself, which defeats".
Typo: "Unncessary".

I don't know if you're agreeing with my post or making fun of it.

Either way, there is only one space after a period. The 2 spaces rule is not correct.
 
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Drog Black Tooth

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Kharza said:
The easiest way would be running a spell check program on dialogues and check the problematic words/sentences manually if they really are incorrect.
It's impossible for a spell checker to find such mistakes as it's/its, your/you're, etc. Moreover, I tried to run the newspapers file through a spell checker and it was stopping at every name, so it was almost impossible to progress. Maybe my spell checker had a crappy dictionary though. Anyway, you may run a spell checker beforehand, but each line should be read through, regardless.

MaskedMan said:
Yeah, I'd like to get in too, if you can't get the required number of natives.
It'd be excellent to have you in the team, MaskedMan. You're a perfect grammar nazi. :) Actually, it were your reports that inspired the idea.

MaskedMan said:
I think this is a good idea, as long as it's kept open, with reports in this thread, so that it's easier to detect and shoot down any false positives ( :oops: ).
Yes, of course.

1234 said:
There is alot of text. There are alot of idiots out on the internet. I can just imagine entire lines of dialog accidentally being erased or "revised". You'll end up talking to an NPC who enjoys saying r00fles and gives you the Magickal Multiheaded Dick Sword. Maybe someone thinks that grammar is actually spelled grammer and believes that there should be more exclamation points.
If you think I'd let you do your own edits unsupervised, then you're an idiot. No offense. There's nothing in the patch that was done without my approval. By default everyone is wrong. Everyone should prove their point and persuade me. Although I may be wrong as well, and I was proven wrong several times. This policy ensures that the patch has only necessary and correct changes.

For everybody who's still confused, here's how this will work:
1. I PM dialogs to volunteers.
2. Volunteers read through each line. Also, this is IMPORTANT: we must pay attention to female lines as well, as there were plenty of cases where female lines had male forms of address, or even were completely wrong.
3. Volunteers post their reports in the thread for everybody to see. (This is an open project, we have nothing to hide. Moreover, this way we'll get more feedback.)
4. I check the reports, then put approved changes in actual dialog files.
Note: If a dialog has a lot of typos, a volunteer may provide an already edited copy of the dialog with comments in the thread. I'll compare it with the unedited version (not manually, but by using software) and if there are no problems, it will be included in the patch.

Also, it goes without saying that all volunteers will be credited for their work (in the first post and in the readme file supplied with the patch).

Any further questions/suggestions are always welcome.

P.S. To everybody who volunteers, please state how many KBs of text would you like to get in a single portion. I'm thinking 20-40 KBs for starters.
 

Gah

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Drog Black Tooth said:
Gah said:
Do you mean create another different character from the beginning and start playing through again?
There' s no "quick fix". Old saves aren't compatible. Start a new game for each update of the patch, or don't update if you wish to continue playing your current character.

Is there some long fix I could go through? I really want to play my character :(
 
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Drog Black Tooth

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Gah said:
Drog Black Tooth said:
Gah said:
Do you mean create another different character from the beginning and start playing through again?
There' s no "quick fix". Old saves aren't compatible. Start a new game for each update of the patch, or don't update if you wish to continue playing your current character.

Is there some long fix I could go through? I really want to play my character :(
Roll back to a version in which you started your character.

Old saves aren't compatible with newer versions.

Old saves aren't compatible with newer versions.


Old saves aren't compatible with newer versions.
 

Black

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Shut up.

I replayed Arcanum with the newest patch, got my gnome to 20 Charisma, made him master of persuasion and bam! I can't tell Arronax that I have a plan bout Kerghan and to leave it to me.
 
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Drog Black Tooth

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Black said:
I replayed Arcanum with the newest patch, got my gnome to 20 Charisma, made him master of persuasion and bam! I can't tell Arronax that I have a plan bout Kerghan and to leave it to me.
The patch doesn't do any changes to this Arronax's dialog, regardless. You're doing it wrong, I suppose. The requirements are CH20 and the full Persuasion skill. Check it again. You may upload the save as well.
 

Truth

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Elsewhere, move along...
Drog, do you have an estimate of when you'll be done with this update (if ever)? Are you fixing things as they come up or do you have a methodical way of scanning items/game assets one by one?

***

Also, can you consider adding this back in or would it be too much of a design choice or unfeasible?
 

Black

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Drog Black Tooth said:
Black said:
I replayed Arcanum with the newest patch, got my gnome to 20 Charisma, made him master of persuasion and bam! I can't tell Arronax that I have a plan bout Kerghan and to leave it to me.
The patch doesn't do any changes to this Arronax's dialog, regardless. You're doing it wrong, I suppose. The requirements are CH20 and the full Persuasion skill. Check it again. You may upload the save as well.
Yup, you're right. I was certain I'm master of persuasion and have 20 cha, while I had only 18. Good thing I had some stuff that raised my charisma with me, eh mate?
High five!
 

Freddy

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Jun 11, 2008
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I volunteer to help with the text proofreading. And I am a native speaker for what it's worth. Unfortunately, I can't guarantee my continued availability to help, but I'll do what I can. I'll take 20kb for starters. We'll go from there once I get an idea how long it will take...
 

carlstar

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send some text my way if you wish and i will go through it as i am jobless for now.

One thing though. Is the english meant to be Queen's english or that nasty american english that loves 'Z' and has something against the letter 'U'.
 

BillyOgawa

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carlstar said:
One thing though. Is the english meant to be Queen's english or that nasty american english that loves 'Z' and has something against the letter 'U'.
Drog Black Tooth said:
The game uses American English (it's an American game, duh). There's no "honour", "armour", "labour", "favour", "colour", etc in the dialogs, only American variants. E.g. "honor" can be found in 86 dialogs, while there's 0 dialogs with "honour".

Generated lines on the other hand contained 36 instances of "honor" and 55 of "honour". Turns out they didn't check them in the end. The game has awfully bad grammar and spelling sometimes, lots of "its" - "it's", "your" - "you're", etc, so it's no surprise.
 

carlstar

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BillyOgawa said:
Generated lines on the other hand contained 36 instances of "honor" and 55 of "honour". Turns out they didn't check them in the end. The game has awfully bad grammar and spelling sometimes, lots of "its" - "it's", "your" - "you're", etc, so it's no surprise.

So that means the game is unsure what it is but it is American english then. good to know
 

Enigmatic

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Freddy said:
I volunteer to help with the text proofreading. And I am a native speaker for what it's worth. Unfortunately, I can't guarantee my continued availability to help, but I'll do what I can. I'll take 20kb for starters. We'll go from there once I get an idea how long it will take...

What he said :)

I'll do some proof reading in my spare time if you like. But I can't guarentee for how long I will be able to help. The thing we all call real life and that :P

Just one question. How do we know if the lines are intended towards females or not?
 
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Drog Black Tooth

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OK, so far we have:
1. BillyOgawa
2. Faceless
3. MaskedMan
4. Freddy
5. Earth Nuggets
6. Enigmatic

(Sorry carlstar, but I don't think you'll make a good proofreader.)

More people are welcome, of course. The more people we have, the faster we can finish this. For starters, all volunteers but BillyOgawa will get 20KB of text (BillyOgawa will get 40).

A bit about .dlg files. They're text files, so you can open them with any text editor. I'm using UltraEdit myself, so I can recommend it. Anyway, here are the basics of the format:

A line structure is

{N}{Text}{G}{I}{Test}{R}{Result}

where N is the number of the text line, and the remaining fields differ in meaning depending on whether the line is a PC and NPC response.

For a PC response,

{Text} is the text of the dialog message
{G} field is left empty if any gender can say it, 0 if only female PC’s can say it, and 1 if only male PC’s can say the line.
{I} is the minimum IQ (if negative, it’s the maximum IQ, and it CANNOT be zero)
{Test} contains tests to see if the PC can speak this line.
{R} is the response line (or if negative, it’s the script line to run if this response is chosen, or if zero, it means to return to the calling point in the associated script).
{Result} contains results which are triggered if the PC speaks this line. See the Result section below.

For an NPC response,
{Text} is the NPC response if the PC is male
{G} is the NPC response if the PC is female
{I} must be left empty
{Test} must be left empty
{R} is usually empty, but on a generated dialog line for an NPC, the R field may be filled in with a response line.
{Result} contains results which are triggered if the NPC speaks this line in dialog (but not if used as a float or barter or other message).

All of the lines following an NPC response, up to but not including the next NPC response, are the PC responses. For example:

{14}{Can I help you sir?}{Can I help you madam?}{}{}{}{}
{15}{Just looking...}{}{1}{}{20}{}
{16}{Do you have any swords?}{}{5}{}{30}{}
{17}{I am looking for a triply-lathed gold-gilded hilt with silver inlay}{}{13}{}{-15}{}
{20}{OK, let me know if you see anything.}{Call me if you need me.}{}{}{}{}
etc...

So line 14 is an NPC line, and lines 15, 16 and 17 are PC responses, and line 20 is another NPC response. If dialog jumps to line 14, the NPC will speak that line, and the PC will be given the choice of lines 15, 16, or 17.

Note that line 17 calls -15 when selected by the player, which refers to the calling script’s line 15. That line will check the NPC’s reaction to the PC and then call back into the dialog tree accordingly.

The most used generated lines (go in the text field):
Greeting – {G:<params>} creates a greeting based on several tests.
Appreciate – {A:} for the PC. Generates an appreciation (or “thank you”) response based on the NPC’s class.
Bartering/Gambling – {B:} for the PC. Some line which accesses the barter screen (gamble is a button there, right?).
Check story state – {C:} for the PC. The PC will ask a question appropriate to the current story state, and the NPC will respond based on the story state and the NPC’s race. Dialog then continues at the response line.
Exit – {E:} for the PC. some response like Bye, or See you later.
Forget it – {F:} for the PC.
Healing – {H:} for the PC. He will ask for healing, and the NPC will respond with any appropriate skill or spell offerings.
asK questions – {K:} for the PC. He will ask for permission to ask questions.
No – {N:} for the PC. Generates a negative (or “no”) response.
Sorry – {S:} for the PC. Generates a “sorry” response.
Training – {T: number list} for the PC. Responses like “Can you train me?” or “I’d like to receive beginner training.” which lead to “Sure. That’ll be 100 coins” and the setting of the training level.
Who are you? – {W:} for the PC. He will ask the NPC who he is.
Yes – {Y:} for the PC. Generates an affirmative (or “yes”) response.
Insult – {I:} for the PC and NPC. For the PC, it will generate an insult based on the NPC’s class. If angered enough, the NPC will respond with an insult on the PC’s race and terminate dialog. For the NPC, it will generate an insult based on the PC’s race.
Rumors – {R: $,number list} for the PC and NPC. For the PC, it generates a line (based on NPC class) leading to the NPC rumor line. The NPC line is how much he asks for (can be $0) and what rumors he knows.

Anyway, don't be afraid, just read the text, you're hunting typos, not bugs. Be sure to pay attention to female lines and overall consistency in using American English.

Thanks in advance to all volunteers.
 

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