KickStarter Underworld Ascendant Pre-Release Thread

[Infinitron]

From last week: https://www.othersideentertainment.com/forum/index.php?topic=6145.msg33732#msg33732

There's a lot of factors that contribute to the way we can talk about UA's development process, as well as what we take away from criticisms we hear of the builds shown thus far.

Overall, we're always proud to see that there's always a discussion about the game, especially when it's to express where you think the game is hitting or missing your expectations. Some of that will be on us to adjust the marketing strategy, and other features ingame can be revisited depending on the nature of the criticism.

For example, object highlighting, which many of you spoke up about, particularly once you're holding the object: it's in the process of finally being removed. After playing around with a lot of different UI for held items, we finally settled on allowing for an object highlight if it's on the ground nearby, and the highlight will disappear once you're holding it. We liked the idea proposed by a number of you, but held off on settling on it before we tested a number of alternatives as well as held off on testing it until other higher priority items were addressed. (Curse you, quests...)

A number of us worked over the weekend to hit this upcoming milestone build, so we may be quiet this week as we set up the next external playtest build. That being said, we'll still be watching and compiling all of the feedback we get, to see where all of you and our general playtesters are noting issues. Some of the biggest distractions, like the winding nature of Marcaul for example, have also been downsized since we agreed it was mostly serving its one-way purpose as a "narrative hallway" rather than working like a "hub", especially on return visits to Marcaul. External playtesters will note this change in the next upcoming build too.

About the tutorial: https://www.othersideentertainment.com/forum/index.php?topic=6104.msg33832#msg33832

We feel like it's needed to help teach people about some of the things you can do in this game that can't be done in most other games, like the interactivity and some of the underlying systems. We're hoping it doesn't come across as an obvious and overt tutorial. It should just feel like you're playing the game. Remember when Half Life 2 took the game industry a step forward and embedded the training in just an early level?

All of that said, some or many of you guys won't really need a tutorial. You get our games, you know to noodle around and try different things. Hopefully, then, the first level will help get you in the mood and provide some of the underlying story of the game.

One of you mentioned "untraining" earlier--I agree that it feels maybe a bit too cute to use and we've really been backing away from that. It was a nice sentiment to mention to press back around PAX South and PAX East, when we were trying to remind people what an immerserve sim is, but I don't see us continuing to reference it that way.

Re: Cabirus, we heard the feedback! He will feel different to you in the Beta / full game. More true to the character Joe has envisioned. Joe rewrote many lines and had Stephen come back in to record VO again. Cabirus is a complicated dude

 

[Siveon]

Aren't first person action games super unpopular in Japan?

No they like certain brands of FPS (PUBG, Counter Strike, *some* Overwatch), but most first person things are pretty unknown over there. I don't remember Bethesda being popular over there either. From Software did have a series of first person dungeon crawlers called King's Field, and there were a few derivatives of that, but not much otherwise.

I'd certainly want to see more of the genre from them.

 

[Max Heap]

Some of the biggest distractions, like the winding nature of Marcaul for example, have also been downsized since we agreed it was mostly serving its one-way purpose as a "narrative hallway" rather than working like a "hub", especially on return visits to Marcaul.

So Marcaul is nothing but a fancy mission screen with a shop?
Am I getting this right?

 

[Infinitron]

I feel like that might be an improvement actually (think Thief 1/2 shop screen instead of boring and pointless between-mission city maps in Thief 3)

Underworld game doesn't need a hub. Some people on the official forums feel the same way.

 

[hogcranker]

DMM is a big e-commerce company in Japan

Aren't first person action games super unpopular in Japan?
Still a good idea to diversify their markets, but in the end its Steam sales will be the big indicator for its financial success.

Today it's seven weeks left.
I guess marketing should start beating the drum soon.

There was a UU port for PS1 that was pretty popular in Japan.

 

[Moink]

DMM is a big e-commerce company in Japan

Aren't first person action games super unpopular in Japan?

Skyrim and Fallout 4 are very popular in Japan.

 

[RatTower]

This weeks update:

https://steamcommunity.com/games/692840/announcements/detail/1706192127162776741

Morning everyone!

As of this weekend, the fourth round of external playtesting is now LIVE. If you are within that pool, remember to check your emails for the next round's instructions. There's been a lot of progress since the last playtest, and we want to thank you again for committing your time and feedback to help us polish the game during this time.

For this coming week, we were originally planning on releasing the Backer Alpha by this Wednesday but have pushed it back to next week. We're still running into a couple of issues that we're close to nailing down, and just want to have that extra buffer time to make sure the Beta build works well. (Also gives us more time to dedicate to Mac and Linux support. We haven't forgotten about you guys!)

There's a lot of milestone deliveries we have to hit that I can't touch upon, but overall, it's a lot of clean up in the levels and general bug fixing. I'd love to tweak the physics of running into tables right now so things don't fly everywhere, but performance and optimization issues are taking up our attention first and foremost. Streamlining the levels as well as making sure the story and characters are accurately represented during quests has also been important.

Marcaul's design as well as Pluto's Gate has gotten quite a number of overhauls since the Backer Alpha, and we appreciate all of the feedback we've had from backers and playtesters alike about this. Keep an eye out for secrets and hidden areas... it's very easy to miss some treasures that are worth keeping.

I don't want to spoil too much, since the Backer Beta will be out next week... so here's a sneak peek at the new entrance to Pluto's Gate[imgur.com]. Good luck!

So another backer release next week.

 

[LESS T_T]

Looks like they're already preparing for the next project. Otherside Boston is hiring Lead Game Programmer for "a new, as yet unannounced game.": https://otherside-e.com/wp/jobs/

Nothing so specific about the next game in the description. (But they've been implied the possibility of a spiritual successor to Thief. Who knows?)

They re-posted this: https://otherside-e.com/wp/jobs/

The posting is exactly the same, not specific about the next project.

Lead Game Programmer
Boston, MA

The OtherSide Entertainment Boston studio is seeking a talented Lead Programmer to join a team getting underway on a new, as yet unannounced game. You’ll report to and work closely with the Project Director. You’ll set the technological vision of the game, and lead a small team of engineers to create a rich and compelling player experience. Together with the other project leads, you’ll collaborate in making core game design decisions and build gameplay systems. You’ll be called upon to write significant amounts of code yourself, troubleshoot existing features, optimize game performance, and work with other members of the team to make a great game. You’ll also mentor and help motivate the team of programmers on the project.

Job Responsibilities

• Participate in all aspects of the project from design to staffing to technology/tools. Share knowledge, motivate and inspire others to generate new ideas in highly collaborative environment. Help empower the less technically oriented team members.
• Lead and manage the programming team. Mentor and inspire the engineering team to meet project quality levels and deadlines.
• Produce the technical specification of the game and oversee the code development process, delegating the different elements to engineering team members as necessary and coding, personally where it makes sense. A fair amount of hands-on coding is expected.
• Work with production staff and other leads to define engineering tasks and determine schedules. Estimate time to accomplish programming tasks and commit to meeting objectives. Help ensure that the team delivers on time and within budget.
• Efficiently communicate and support messages and decisions from management.
• Identify risks and provide solutions to complex technical problems.
• Work independently and collaboratively in a team setting with minimum supervision.

Required

• 6+ years of experience programming in the games industry, with at least one commercial hit PC or Console game that you were in a senior or lead programmer role.
• 2+ years of relevant experience as a programming lead. Must have proven technical, managerial, and leadership experience.
• Track record of contributing to and leading high-quality engineering teams, and solving challenging technical problems effectively.
• Expert knowledge of programming with experience in C++ and C#, and a proven aptitude for technical design.
• Experience working with various game engines, especially Unity.
• Experience in core engine development, AI, networking, gameplay, and tool development.
• Knowledge of the technical pipeline and all the processes needed to make a game. A deep understanding of and appreciation for the entire development process.
• Strong sensibilities in designing and implementing compelling gameplay experiences.
• Solid organizational and communication skills, and ability to collaborate with other disciplines, and being a strong team player.
• Exceptional leadership, communication and team management skills.
• A passion for developing and playing games, including the sort of “immersive sims” OtherSIde makes.
• BS degree in Computer Science, or equivalent experience.

If you meet the requirements and are interested in the position, send a cover letter and resume to jobs@otherside-e.com.

 

[RatTower]

The musical cue is a nice touch.

 

[Infinitron]

Interesting private update about enemy design: https://otherside-e.com/wp/insider-blog-carl-ahlund-09-28-18/

 

[agris]

what's the gist?

 

[LESS T_T]

Lurkers are drowned, for now: https://www.othersideentertainment.com/forum/index.php?topic=6194.msg33930#msg33930

All good notes about water...

I believe there are a couple of areas that have water, such as the Underswamp and one of the Fort areas, but we're missing a current. In the Swamp, it makes sense there's no current for one of the areas because it's a lake, but for the river you have to pass through, I wonder if opening it up as a current would make swimming down the channel to look for secrets less appealing.

I think we were playing around with Lurkers earlier this year (and they were HORRIFYING when I bumped into them), but they were ultimately removed for the November release because there was more we wanted to do with them. We have a couple of other familiar creatures planned post-launch for UA that we hope you'll enjoy, because I personally get scared of them whenever I see any of them shambling down the hallway...

For the current, I was imagining that the current was guiding players down the channel, because of the way it's set up; there's a grate on one side and an open tunnel on the other. I naturally imagined that the water was flowing from the grate down the rest of the tunnel, which might have me, as a player, feel like I was being guided towards the secret at the end... but perhaps the opposite makes more sense.

As for the Lurker and the other creatures that should be introduced later to the Abyss, I want to clarify that these were already intended as DLC / post-launch content. We do need to test them in-game on occasion, which is why it's horrifying to run into one when you're least expecting it. The reason they get their own batch is because they'll come bundled with their own quests and new areas to accommodate their inclusion. Most games are developed with these post-launch contents in mind, and I apologize if that wasn't made clearer earlier.

As for the rotworm distracting a Lurker, I believe the example was used to demonstrate how interactions in the Abyss could be carried out. The interaction will still apply to other creatures, and eventually the Lurker as well.

Definitive Edition for consoles, I see.

 

[LESS T_T]

Brief weekly update: https://www.othersideentertainment.com/forum/index.php?topic=6196.0

Morning everyone!

First off, I just wanted to thank all of you who came by our table at BostonFIG on Saturday! It was a great show, and I got to meet general Underworld fans, a couple of Kickstarter backers, and some external playtesters at the booth. We were showing off a build that we made on Friday (which the external playtesters also had access to), and it was great to have a wide variety of feedback from both new and long-term fans.

Speaking of our external playtesters, we've been working closely with your feedback to improve, and there's been some significant upgrades to Marcaul, Cabirus, Typhon, and the general movement mechanics as a result. We've also been tweaking UI and improving some of the world interactions to improve the quality of life interactions you can have, such as mantling, making it easier to throw objects, removing the after-highlight trail of thrown objects, removing the held item highlight, etc.

For this week, it's going to be a lot of bug fixing and optimization, especially as we gear up to release the Backer Beta soon. We'll most likely post our monthly newsletter to coincide with the Backer Beta release timing, so keep an eye on your inbox...

It's a bit of a shorter-than-usual weekly update for you all, but we hope you'll be able to see for yourselves what we've been working on soon enough...

Here is a more fun thread about the hub structure, Chris Siegel appears: https://www.othersideentertainment.com/forum/index.php?topic=6195.msg33976#msg33976

So, it can't be immersive if it is not a fully connected dungeon?
Like Thief, Dishonored, UU2, Bioshock exc exc. I'd say connectivity has zero to do with immersive simulation. Ass Creed, Far Cry and whatnot are sandboxes...but are they immersive? The verbs are very limited on what you can do. Don't get me wrong I love both those series for what they are, but the immersion is more about 'being in a place' than about immersive gameplay. The are both getting better at it, but it is far from a simulation.

My rules to follow:
The world has to have a logical (logical for the world ) set of rules it follows, and interaction in said rules has to make sense. For a simple example wood burns. Stone doesn't. Magic does these things, but not these others.
Things need to interact with each other. Fire burns rope, burns wood, which drops anvil on badguy who gets angry and now goes off searching leaving an opening for you to sneak by.
Players need to be able to do more than murder. We have enough of that baloney in games. I've played hours into the game last week without pulling a weapon. This makes me very happy.
Players inherently find more interesting solutions when challenged or desperate. This is where we are now- right now frankly the player gets too much stuff, and the AI isn't putting you into a terrible situation. These are 'simple' to solve- less treasure and world objects, more interesting patrols and whatnot for the AI.

You can have an immersive sim in a box with a squeaky toy, a piece of string and a paperclip. If you design for those objects to work correctly in your environment. I'd personally love to do a escape mission someday that is just using immersive elements. use a spoon to dig, a piece of wire to jimmy a lock, bed sheet to make a rope exc. I mean does anything say immersion better than Escape from Alcatraz? But to make that spoon be able to dig for example is work. Real work. What are we making the world out of technically? what properties of that world can the spoon effect? What other items can do the same thing? Did I just build a giant spoon digging simulator? Is that fun?

As for a big sandbox dungeon- that was the original thought...but we backed away from it for a very simple- and disappointing reason- we just didn't have the manpower to do it justice. And that sucked, and we were all sad about it. So we went with a hub and spoke approach instead. The levels are all pretty damn big-most of them bigger than the biggest levels in Thief. We probably could stitch these all together, but splitting them up let us focus more on game systems than building in some streaming tech, or a super-duper robust save system and 100 other things we would have needed to do technically to pull that off. And we have talked about stitching them together at points, but the smarter call is to keep it the way it is.
The beauty of coming to the end of this project is soooo much we can reuse is now in the can. AI, combat,stealth exc is all stood up and only gets better in the next games. So doing a sandbox world sometime in the future is possible---it's one of my dream projects to do such a thing. But like early Bethsoft, we just didn't have the horse power, assets, or code to start with Oblivion, we need to do our smaller versions first.

And Flug--why are you not testing?

Speaking of ChrisS, his post at QtT forums in August: https://forum.quartertothree.com/t/...ught-to-you-by-zombie-looking-glass/76311/489

crunch crunch crunch…
quick vacation…
crunch crunch crunch…
sleep. Eat Turkey.
Think about the next thing.

 

[Zep Zepo]

These guys just don't "get it".

Zep--

 

[Nyast]

These guys are making an immersive rpg and their dungeon design is based off isolated areas linked by random magical teleporters.

I'm trying to lobby them to make them understand these two things are contradictory and they're heading into the wall, but it's far too late and it's not like they're listening anyways.

The good news is that tbe beta is around the corner, so we'll soon be able to see how much of a trainwreck this is. Who knows, maybe it won't be as bad as it sounds like.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

The stairways between levels helped world building and cohesion and I liked them a lot, but I have to agree with Chris S in that they have nothing to do with simulation.

UW2 was technically superior to the first game and it had portals instead of stairways.

 

[Nyast]

It had a hub and travelling through dimensions via portals. But each "world" had many logically interconnected floors, so overall the design was still immersive.

What they're doing here is that every single level is only accessible through a teleporter. You won't know if you teleported "up" or "down" or "close" or "far"; you'll lose all sense of space and global architecture within the dungeon.

 

[Max Heap]

Did they say anything about the scope of the upcoming beta?
Is it actually going to be like an hour of gameplay, where the whole "game loop" is present (take mission, go to level, return, sell, stock up, talk to NPC (is that even still a thing?), select another mission, etc) or just another "slice" with a single objective in a pre-loaded level?

Also I got the feeling they won't make it this week. Something's telling me it will come out next week, friday or so.
On the other hand they should probably hurry to incorporate the feedback till the release, which will be less than a month away then.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

I wonder who is testing. I offered to help as I am on extended vacation and even offered to travel to Boston to test in person with the team (they suggested in person testing would be most useful). My application fell into the abyss and yet they we're saying until very recently they wanted testers.

 

[Invictus]

I wonder who is testing. I offered to help as I am on extended vacation and even offered to travel to Boston to test in person with the team (they suggested in person testing would be most useful). My application fell into the abyss and yet they we're saying until very recently they wanted testers.

Why subject yourself to this torture? Are you a masoquist or something, or you still hope this won’t suck?

 

[forumvisitor#451]

I completely understand that. You could them your honest opinion in person instead of anonymous bitching on forums.

 

[Invictus]

I completely understand that. You could them your honest opinion in person instead of anonymous bitching on forums.

And do you think it is going to do any good? I mean the level design, mechanics and almost everything is pretty much set...

 

[forumvisitor#451]

Why so negative? So it will be most probably mediocre. I guess nobody can say that for sure now. But that does not change much. If you don’t count Monomyth, I don’t see any upcoming release in this sub-genre. If it will sell just enough, devs will probably have good foundations for what sounded like a true extension of original UU/Arx. So maybe one day we will get THE game instead of ... nothing? Him being a playtester can be instrumental to that.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

However it will turn out they have been considerate of good feedback. In person, in depth feedback might bring some good to all who are anticipating this game or had any hope for it. I hope they are getting.good feedback but we won't know because of NDA.

 

[Invictus]

Well herr doktor if you can tell them that the combat lacks any sort of weight, even Oblivion did better 12 years ago
As for why I am so butthurt yeah Ultima Underworld is one of my favorite games and one of the 5 most important games of all time so it fucking deserves better than this
I truly hope somehow someone revies Arx Fatalis or we get a true heir to Underworld