KickStarter Underworld Ascendant is a disaster

[Glic2000]

Yep, go look at the UA Kickstarter page. There's Warren in a video, with the title "creative advisor" above it.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Huh. Okay, I somehow forgot that completely. Never mind then. Definitely does cast a further pall over SS3.

 

[BEvers]

Sam shared a "peek behind the curtain" from the team's internal Discord today. The contents aren't terribly interesting, but it shows that the senior staff are currently playtesting the new super-update:

 

[Steamboat Willie]

They have more active developers on this than they do players.

 

[Nyast]

Ooouuuh... that hurts but.. touché..

 

[BEvers]

Update 2 - Player Journey & Gameplay Improvements
14 Feb @ 9:04pm - Question_505
Underworld Ascendant
Update 2 Build Notes

Thank you for your continued support of Underworld Ascendant!

We have been hard at work on Update 2 and have focused our efforts on the overall structure of the Abyss, the player journey, AI and other gameplay improvements. We believe these changes will significantly improve the overall player experience, especially when starting a new game.

We hope you enjoy this update and please continue to provide your feedback.

The Stygian Abyss renovated

• The world is now a series of interconnected levels, accessible through The Grand Staircase. Updated quest flow now focuses on important narrative quests that highlight both new and refined story and content, while allowing the player to freely explore the environment and optional side-quests.
  
• As a result of this major change, we highly recommend that you start a new game to experience it. That said, if you want to start from where you left off, your old save games will still work and you will start at a roughly similar place in the new story progression.

Player experience improvements highlights

• Updated enemy patrol paths and lighting pass in all levels to enhance tactical stealth gameplay, and enemy population overhaul/refinements on all main quests.
  
• New and streamlined story elements along main critical path, with supplemental story elements moved to explorable space.
  
• The Vault of Nyx, the final level encounter, gameplay and clarity improvements.

Meta Game updates

• The Doom Counter has been refined to better ramp the type and difficulty of creatures that appear, and now allows players to complete the game without having to set it back more than once in an average playthrough.
  
• Players no longer need to gain Faction Favor or Influence to trigger the final encounter of the game, though Faction Favor still provides benefits in trade.
  
• New games can now choose a difficulty level. All old save games will be treated as “Normal” difficulty.

Save Game System
We made some additional enhancements and refinements to the save game system based on your feedback:

• Players can now use F5 to quick save and F9 to quick load said quick save.
  
• Players are now asked for confirmation if they are about to overwrite an existing save.
  
• Clarity pass on the text in the Save menu to improve usability.
  
• Also a load game panel clarity pass. It will also now show difficulty of each save game.

Spoiler

AI

• Updated enemy patrol paths and AI behavior models to improve their reaction to player actions
  
• Enemies will no longer do more than one in-combat emote in a row, which makes them much more aggressive.
  
• Enemies will flee less often than before.
  
• Animuses now alert all nearby undead when they are being attacked.
  
• Lizardmen casters will no longer cast while on the ground or getting up.
  
• Lizardmen will now be more aggressive.
  
• Better wandering for deep slugs and rats.
  
• Skeletons will no longer attack torches that damage them. Also reduced torch damage radius for when creatures walk by them.
  
• Enemies now have more personality in their idle time.

Loot and Items

• Standard trunks are now smaller to reflect that they don’t hold treasure on the level of the mighty Typhon chests. Removed the sparkly “treasure” effect when you open a trunk. Celebrations are for actual treasure chests.
  
• Trunks that are too low-level to hold much loot will now (rather than being so empty) have more filler items such as pots, which will sometimes contain coins.
  
• Clarity pass on item descriptions to make it easier to understand what they do.
  
• Magical items now have a different color name so they stand out more in your inventory.
  
• Player’s speed percentage is now listed in the inventory screen so you can tell if items you have equipped are slowing you down (or speeding you up).
  
• Item tooltips for equipment that improves the wearer’s armor percentage now include a notation about that.
  
• Updated Aelita’s trade menu to make it easier to understand how much silver you will get for a trade, and how much silver Aelita has available to trade.
  
• When you mouse over an item, it will be compared to the same type of item you have equipped, if any.
  
• Right clicking on items in your inventory behaves the same as double clicking. This also applies to trade where it will move it to/from the offer table.
  
• When moving a stack of items within their inventory, the player is no longer prompted to pick how many they like to move. To see that pop up, hold down shift and click on the stack of items.

Gameplay Including Movement, Combat, Stealth, Magic and More

• Additional refinements to combat feel and responsiveness, including removing an animation step so that players aren’t moving forward after an attack ends, which tended to interrupt combat flow.
  
• Creatures may be knocked down during combat and get back up to continue the fight. Make sure to finish your foes!
  
• Several creature types now have small weaknesses to extended melee combat. This will make encounters a bit more eventful in cases where the player’s attacks are underpowered for their foe.
  
• Chains and ropes will be much easier to swing on.
  
• Fixed issue where you would get stuck on chains in certain situations.
  
• Removed some lights that didn’t have an extinguishable source and were making stealth difficult in spots.
  
• Further refinement of player movement
  
• If the player walks into a heavy object (like a table) it no longer knocks over. Instead the player will step on top of it. This also applies to crates! Running into stuff will still knock it over, of course.
  
• There are more mana motes in the world. Use the Mana Sight skill to spot them and keep your supply full!
  
• Player’s maximum mana is increased.
  
• Fixed the Blink spell getting stuck on light obstructions (e.g. crates), and made it more reliable in general. Adjusted it to Level 3 instead of Level 2.
  
• Fixed the Magic Fist spell’s collision with physics objects to apply forces as intended.
  
• Fixed Outcasts’ fleeing behavior so they don’t smoke bomb away from the player if they are allies (as with summoned or charmed Outcasts).
  
• Fixed long-press of the interact button on doors (as if you were trying to pick the door up), to lock or unlock them.
  
• Friendly lizardmen now show up on the map. You will also get a warning saying “Saurians are your allies!” if you accidentally hit one.
  
• General pass on tooltips to ensure they appear where expected and make sense.

Levels and Quests

• Players will be able to reach the lower depths of the Abyss more quickly in the game’s overall progression, if they choose to do so.
  
• Removed the intro sequence with Cabirus so players can get to the action faster.
  
• Implemented subtitles for the ending cinematics.
  
• A lighting pass across the entire game to better support gameplay.
  
• More improvements to the main quest line to make sure there are no dry spots.
  
• Narrative and clarity pass on the Vault of Nyx so players can better understand what needs to be done to complete the final mission in the game.
  
• Players who miss the “Cautious First Steps” feat in Pluto’s Gate can still qualify for it by running any subsequent quest undetected.
  
• Removed the “Weaponless” Side Bounty from the rotation as it’s not applicable to the new Quest flow.
  
• New challenges and rewards to discover in all levels!
  
• Lots more holes filled!

Skills

• Fixed the Haste skill so only characters with the skill get its benefit.
  
• Some special attacks now knock the targeted enemy back.
  
• Skill Points are now called Skill Points on the Skills screen, (not Memora).
  
• Clarity pass on skill descriptions to make it easier to understand what each skill does and how to use them.
  ○ Known issue: the Mighty Blow, Cleave, and Fists of Iron skill chain descriptions sometimes leave out that they apply to axes & maces, swords, and unarmed attacks respectively.
  
• Added a reminder on the Skills screen that the player needs to perform Feats (found in the Compendium) to earn skill points.
  
• Fixed the Unseen Dash and Dash Farther skills’ handling of rough terrain. Unseen Dash should skim over terrain, while Dash Farther will hop over gaps entirely.
  
• Increased the bonus to mantel height granted by the Athletic Ascent skill.
  
• Improved clarity for skill descriptions and skill panel.

Misc

• General performance improvements to improve load times, increase FPS and reduce hitching.
  
• Players can now cycle through hints on loading screens by hitting the E button.
  
• Brightness bar on character creation extended so you can make the game even brighter.
  
• A Compendium now appears in the Tab menu. The Hints and Secrets tabs have been folded into the Compendium. In addition, one section lists all the available Feats in the game and tracks which feats have been completed. Another section will track all of the foods the player has eaten and their effects.
  
• New VFX on Memora.
  
• New VFX on Animus Hearts.
  
• Players will no longer sound like they are plunging deep beneath the water when they splash through a puddle.
  
• Fix for “Bark & Bite” achievement not firing right (the Ripper was getting the achievement instead).
  
• (Trade) Fix for splitting stacks during trade destroying stacks.

https://steamcommunity.com/games/692840/announcements/detail/1750114627288546134

 

[Max Heap]

The world is now a series of interconnected levels, accessible through The Grand Staircase.

Ugh....

Fine... here we go again. Just give me a bit to re-install it and I'll take a look at it.

I hope the framerate isn't as shit as it's been in the release version.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

They are still working on this...
Geez talk about

I am still waiting for that RazorFist review...

Spoiler

Who am I kidding. The dude probably noticed how much of a piece of shit the game really is. And after shilling for it as hard as he did during launch, I doubt he will ever mention it ever again in his life time.

 

[ShaggyMoose]

"Making the Abyss one cohesive dungeon"

Absolutely, without doubt, this means they are implementing the Grand Staircase. You heard it here first.

Fuck me, they actually did it.



If you just read the patch notes, it sounds like things are coming along well. That being said, I haven't even installed the game to see if they are all just lipstick on a pig.

 

[Sinatar]

They linked the levels with "The Grand Staircase", here it is in all it's glory:

Yup, 8 stairs leading to a brick wall, you walk into the wall to trigger the level transition.


Character movement still feels like shit, enemy AI is still completely jacked, it's still a complete and total shitshow.

 

[Viata]

Holy shit I'm dying here.

 

[Nyast]

Tried replaying the game today. There's been some improvements. So the game went from being a turd, to being bad. At least they're still trying.

Personally, I tried fighting a skeleton, was swinging my sword, he was knocked out on the ground and I was charging my attack to give it the final blow and then.. I died. Like, just died, out of thin air ( skeleton was still incapacitated on the ground ) with 100% of my hitpoints, for no reason ( no other enemies, no traps, nothing. Just random death ).

Also, while I'm one of these people that was lobbying for the great staircase, I didn't ask for the "puny staircase". I must also add that they did not improve loading times, so travelling "physically" to underground levels is literraly 10 seconds per level ( design is spiral based, in terms of layout ) followed by 3 minutes of loading screen. For. Every. Single. Level.

So yeah, back to using teleporters. They're trying, they're trying. But it just does not work, the design is broken on a fundamental level.

 

[Max Heap]

Ugh....

Fine... here we go again. Just give me a bit to re-install it and I'll take a look at it.

I hope the framerate isn't as shit as it's been in the release version.

So the beginning of the game is pretty different.
The tutorial's been changed
Marcaul is actually under siege. There are undead walking around outside

Looks like the mission board is gone. The grand staircase is under Marcaul (where the statue of Typhon was), but you require a key to get into upper erebus. I first started a new game+ but reconsidered because I feared some old data might invalidate stuff here and fixing up NG+ in accordance with their latest changes probably wasn't otherside's priority (In fact getting the key from the lizardmen's leaders was a bit of a problem first - you need to visit both the skill trainer and the midnight forum; the earlier didn't register properly at first, but after revisiting resherak it was working and I was given the key)

So whatever, I start a new game - and mind you, I haven't played since release so some stuff might be old news:

Combat seems a bit better (enemies can be thrown down - also in earlier patch i think they made all attack movements (e.g. stabing) available from the beginning - so you don't need to put skillpoints in that anymore)
Framerate was at least stable for now (we'll see about that in the last few levels)
The story is better explained/exposition is better, i.e. the narration has been re-arranged to make a bit more sense.
also there are tons of skeletons lying around everywhere now
fall damage seems more balanced (or let's say it exists)
Cabirus is no longer like "I'm NOT gonna hold your hand!" - which is in line with what he's doing throughout the tutorial.
Parts of the tutorial map, as well as marcaul, have been changed
The Runebag seems to work, even after loading - so you can actually play as a mage now.
There are healing potions.
Skeleton eyes glow in relation to their current health. It seems like weapons have been balanced somewhat.
So far all memoras seem to be voiced - as they should have been I believe (in the original release pressing play on some would just play a default sound effect)

That one wall in the tutorial (right in the beginning of the room with the chandelier) still has no collision, but after diving outside the map at least I died after falling a while. So I guess they put a kill-volume around the map. Also the horizont color of the scenes is now black, making holes in the geometry less apparent.
Some chests still violently vomit their contents at you (here's a tip otherside, and this one's for free: Just deactivate physics on those items until the player interacts with them. Just make this static. And lower the scale of those default backpacks to like 0.5 - in combination with phyisics interaction these almost always jump out of the chest - one escaped me before and fell into lava)
There are some minor audio mixing issues (walking on those newly added skeletons sounds like loudly punching a box of cereals)
Ishtars challenge is no longer needed to get into marcaul, which makes kind of sense as it was nothing more than an additional tutorial.

The grand staircase seems to be a bit at the beginning of each level, leading down to the next. Missions are given in a camp at the beginning of each level instead of the mission board - you still get them from a board right next to a portal to marcaul though (meh)

So much for the first two hours. It's definitely better so far. I might give another update once I'm in Titan's Reach, which is essentially where the original release finally broke apart for me.

It's still rough around the edges from what I can see, but a tiny bit closer to what was promised/expected.

Jesus Christ if it released like this it might not even have mostly negative steam reviews.
If they keep fixing it like this I'd recommend a "Director's Cut" re-release á la Rome:Imperator Edition in like half a year or so.

 

[swrench]

I freaking called it!!! The game is shovelware because the underlying license is from Electronic Arts. and Licensed games suck. This is not an original property that is wholly owned, they are dealing with a license with EA like EA deals with Star Wars, I knew it always was going to fail.

 

[unfairlight]

That just looks awful. How incompetent do you have to be to not be able to just make the character walk into pitch black and then fade out and transition to the next level?

They are still working on this...
Geez talk about

I am still waiting for that RazorFist review...

Spoiler

Who am I kidding. The dude probably noticed how much of a piece of shit the game really is. And after shilling for it as hard as he did during launch, I doubt he will ever mention it ever again in his life time.

Oh no, he's still trying his hardest.

 

[Max Heap]

Played the first mission.
Particle performance (fire) seems better. General performance seems a bit more stable.
It looks like you just stay in the map and have to walk back to the camp everytime you finish a mission. I'm not sure whether that's a wise design choice, but we'll see once I can get more than one mission at once (which is hopefully possible).

I'm not sure whether I'll give the entire game another shot though. I almost played through it twice (my mage run was killed near the end by losing all runes on reload).
Twentyseven hours are enough. Whether it's good now or not, I don't need fifty hours on a game that was mostly driving me up the wall.
I just can't look at it anymore. It makes me sick and angry. Even if its alright now.

I'll see. Maybe curiosity will take over, but it requires a lot of patience to sit through this.

 

[jewboy]

These guys will never work on games again after this I think or at least hope. They don't deserve to. My guess is that these brilliant and special snowflakes who were smart enough to get into and then graduate from MIT have just gotten too old for such an ambitious project. The brain is an impressive machine, but it wears out quickly. You can be brilliant from the age of 8-10 for maybe 30-35 years but then brain rot will get you. What do you expect from a computing device made of jello?

It's too bad most of us waste the years from 10-18 on bullshit general education designed to keep dummies from not knowing anything at all while neglecting the top 1% who really matter, but even if we had a better more customized education system it still isn't that much time to get shit done. I was probably smart enough in my teens and early 20s to make at least some kind of computer game, but these days just waking up successfully feels like a major accomplishment. So...yes...brain rot really is a thing. You can have an IQ of 150 at age 20 and drop down to 90 by age 50.

But it takes more than raw intelligence to do something like this. It takes energy and drive and passion all of which are in short supply when you get old. And frankly most of us aging Xers have lost interest in computer games entirely. I have grown tired of even my favorite games like ToEE and BG2+SCS and yes Arx Fatalis too although I would be curious to see if I could get Arx running on Win10. The problem with living a long time is that everything you once loved becomes like a great song that you listen to hundreds of times in a row until you cannot bear to ever listen to it again or like eating your favorite food every day for a year.

Before someone figures out telomeres and life extension maybe they should figure out how to keep life worth living for more than a few decades, but brain rot is really the main problem. Even if you don't enjoy life after 40 you can still have discipline and force yourself to work on interesting projects if your brain still works. I can definitely see why no one wants to hire people my age. It isn't just that we are old dogs who have trouble learning new tricks or that we have a penchant for wanting to optimize our assembly language programs (hehe). I lost money on these guys because I assumed they could still do what they did in their 20s. Now it seems silly. I wouldn't have invested in a middle aged ex-olympic skier to make a big comeback, but the brain ages too. There really is something to be said for dying young and leaving well maybe not a good looking corpse but at least an unwrinkled one. This post is long and rambling and not very good because my brain is well past its expiration date.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

They are still working on this...
Geez talk about

I am still waiting for that RazorFist review...

Spoiler

Who am I kidding. The dude probably noticed how much of a piece of shit the game really is. And after shilling for it as hard as he did during launch, I doubt he will ever mention it ever again in his life time.

Oh no, he's still trying his hardest.

Well... He sticks to his guns, I'll give'em that.
Even when he's completely wrong, and making a fool of himself...

 

[Cael]

They are still working on this...
Geez talk about

I am still waiting for that RazorFist review...

Spoiler

Who am I kidding. The dude probably noticed how much of a piece of shit the game really is. And after shilling for it as hard as he did during launch, I doubt he will ever mention it ever again in his life time.

Oh no, he's still trying his hardest.

Well... He sticks to his guns, I'll give'em that.
Even when his completely wrong, and making a fool of himself...

 

[HoboForEternity]

They are still working on this...
Geez talk about

I am still waiting for that RazorFist review...

Spoiler

Who am I kidding. The dude probably noticed how much of a piece of shit the game really is. And after shilling for it as hard as he did during launch, I doubt he will ever mention it ever again in his life time.

Oh no, he's still trying his hardest.

Well... He sticks to his guns, I'll give'em that.
Even when his completely wrong, and making a fool of himself...

isnt the dev basically admitted it was a serious mismanagement + feature creep ?

 

[Big Wrangle]

It's the same underdog narrative mongering people push to make themselves feel like charitable being for helping the poor devs, like how folks omit Obsidian's failure to amend the KOTOR2 contract which didn't allow LucasArts to delay the game as they originally considered.

 

[Efe]

anyone selling or giving away unused keys for this?

 

[Metro]

It'll be in the $1 tier of indie bundles within the year.

 

[glass blackbird]

Played the first mission.
Particle performance (fire) seems better. General performance seems a bit more stable.
It looks like you just stay in the map and have to walk back to the camp everytime you finish a mission. I'm not sure whether that's a wise design choice, but we'll see once I can get more than one mission at once (which is hopefully possible).

I'm not sure whether I'll give the entire game another shot though. I almost played through it twice (my mage run was killed near the end by losing all runes on reload).
Twentyseven hours are enough. Whether it's good now or not, I don't need fifty hours on a game that was mostly driving me up the wall.
I just can't look at it anymore. It makes me sick and angry. Even if its alright now.

I'll see. Maybe curiosity will take over, but it requires a lot of patience to sit through this.

Having to walk back to camp in the map is 100% an improvement, because originally you had to do a 5 minute load back to the city, pick up a mission, and take a 10 minute load back. which would also reset the entire map and probably crash your game before even getting there.

like, the systems and levels won't be any more fun to interact with, but at least it'll be possible to actually play the game now i guess, which is... better

 

[Morgoth]

These guys will never work on games again after this I think or at least hope. They don't deserve to. My guess is that these brilliant and special snowflakes who were smart enough to get into and then graduate from MIT have just gotten too old for such an ambitious project. The brain is an impressive machine, but it wears out quickly. You can be brilliant from the age of 8-10 for maybe 30-35 years but then brain rot will get you. What do you expect from a computing device made of jello?

It's too bad most of us waste the years from 10-18 on bullshit general education designed to keep dummies from not knowing anything at all while neglecting the top 1% who really matter, but even if we had a better more customized education system it still isn't that much time to get shit done. I was probably smart enough in my teens and early 20s to make at least some kind of computer game, but these days just waking up successfully feels like a major accomplishment. So...yes...brain rot really is a thing. You can have an IQ of 150 at age 20 and drop down to 90 by age 50.

But it takes more than raw intelligence to do something like this. It takes energy and drive and passion all of which are in short supply when you get old. And frankly most of us aging Xers have lost interest in computer games entirely. I have grown tired of even my favorite games like ToEE and BG2+SCS and yes Arx Fatalis too although I would be curious to see if I could get Arx running on Win10. The problem with living a long time is that everything you once loved becomes like a great song that you listen to hundreds of times in a row until you cannot bear to ever listen to it again or like eating your favorite food every day for a year.

Before someone figures out telomeres and life extension maybe they should figure out how to keep life worth living for more than a few decades, but brain rot is really the main problem. Even if you don't enjoy life after 40 you can still have discipline and force yourself to work on interesting projects if your brain still works. I can definitely see why no one wants to hire people my age. It isn't just that we are old dogs who have trouble learning new tricks or that we have a penchant for wanting to optimize our assembly language programs (hehe). I lost money on these guys because I assumed they could still do what they did in their 20s. Now it seems silly. I wouldn't have invested in a middle aged ex-olympic skier to make a big comeback, but the brain ages too. There really is something to be said for dying young and leaving well maybe not a good looking corpse but at least an unwrinkled one. This post is long and rambling and not very good because my brain is well past its expiration date.

Don't worry, industry legend Warren Spector will totally make a huge comeback with Shock 3.

But yeah, I agree. That's why I'm also so wary of the Cain-Boyarski duo being cheered as the "original Fallout creators" making the Next Big Thing(tm) with Outer Worlds. I don't think so.

I think other geezers like Ken Levine are doing it smarter. He left making AAA games timely and got himself a tiny niche with ample time to work on a small project without any big fanfare. I think his brain should manage.