Tyranny Pre-Release Thread

[Excidium II]

you’ll also gain a Wound when a character reaches low health.

Eh? How the hell is this a good mechanic? Unless, of course, if you want to encourage degenerate playstyles.

Because otherwise the wound mechanic would not serve any purpose if character death is enabled.

 

[Sannom]

Why not enable friendly fire on higher levels of difficulty - is it WHAT BAD?

Because of Dragon Age 2, that's why.

Or alternatively, if the zoom showed on the various videos if the higher you can go, because of Planescape : Torment.

 

[Infinitron]

When asked about disabling friendly fire on lower difficulty levels in PoE, Obsidian said that would be a terrible idea because the various area of effect abilities are balanced with friendly fire in mind. They'd probably say the same is true here, from the opposite side.

What I've noticed is that many of the AoEs in Tyranny have this very wide cone shape, which isn't common in PoE.

 

[tripedal]

Really disappointed they're removing friendly fire, I liked how it worked in PoE.

 

[vivec]

PoE music was fine.

So was the art.

 

[Prime Junta]

Why not enable friendly fire on higher levels of difficulty - is it WHAT BAD?

It throws the spells out of balance. Suppose you have two AoE DD spells with equal area. One does 50 damage and the other does 100 damage. The second one is objectively better, no? Now, if you have FF on the 100 damage one and foe-only on the 50 damage one, you can't say anymore which one is objectively better: it depends on the situation.

You can see the problem if one difficulty level has FF and another doesn't.

 

[Parabalus]

The effect of INT in PoE on the radius of AoE spells was very original and provided great gameplay, sad to see it go.

The interrupt and consumables change seem like they will make it into PoE2. A few options usable regardless of your characters current action are great and add complexity, hoping they give us a few reactive abilities and make stuff like the Rogue's Shadowstep instant.

Only other game I can recall that has the wounds system was DA:O, but the penalties were not harsh enough without mods, you could just ignore them - hopefully Tyranny gets it right of the bat, but I'm not too much of a fan.

The rest is hard to gauge without the full picture.

 

[Infinitron]

The effect of INT in PoE on the radius of AoE spells was very original and provided great gameplay, sad to see it go.

I think that stuff is being offloaded to the new spellcrafting system, which they haven't described in detail yet.

 

[Sannom]

The effect of INT in PoE on the radius of AoE spells was very original and provided great gameplay, sad to see it go.

I'm hoping it won't go away in PoE proper.

Only other game I can recall that has the wounds system was DA:O, but the penalties were not harsh enough without mods, you could just ignore them - hopefully Tyranny gets it right of the bat, but I'm not too much of a fan.

What about Pillars of Eternity?

 

[Infinitron]

Gamespot videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X5Bz6zUz30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vidqbe8AdPI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sivj5Q_cwY

 

[Bubbles]

Gamespot videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X5Bz6zUz30

I wonder what that dotted line signifies.

 

[Parabalus]

I think that stuff is being offloaded to the new spellcrafting system, which they haven't described in detail yet.

There is surely going to be +AoE% effects somewhere, but since there is no friendly fire, there is no outer ring, which is where the fun was.

What about Pillars of Eternity?

Derp. Only fatigue popped into my head.

They got buffed in a patch I think, at release they were completely ignorable. I like how you can get wounded by failing text events, but being removable by resting means that even on PotD you can easily clear before major encounters - DA:O actually did this better. Not really a fan of the system tho.

 

[Sannom]

They got buffed in a patch I think, at release they were completely ignorable.

Now that I think about it, I think they were added in a patch, the big one that came with TWM2.

 

[Modron]

The effect of INT in PoE on the radius of AoE spells was very original and provided great gameplay, sad to see it go.

The interrupt and consumables change seem like they will make it into PoE2. A few options usable regardless of your characters current action are great and add complexity, hoping they give us a few reactive abilities and make stuff like the Rogue's Shadowstep instant.

Only other game I can recall that has the wounds system was DA:O, but the penalties were not harsh enough without mods, you could just ignore them - hopefully Tyranny gets it right of the bat, but I'm not too much of a fan.

The rest is hard to gauge without the full picture.

Eh in the Drakensang games you picked up wounds like crazy, get 3 and you're out of a fight. More people should play the River of Time.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

, Obsidian said that would be a terrible idea because the various area of effect abilities are balanced with friendly fire in mind.

How the fuck does one balance AoE effects with friendly fire in mind? Did they assume every x % ofd AoE effects will damage allies? This does not make any sense.

 

[Infinitron]

, Obsidian said that would be a terrible idea because the various area of effect abilities are balanced with friendly fire in mind.

How the fuck does one balance AoE effects with friendly fire in mind? Did they assume every x % ofd AoE effects will damage allies? This does not make any sense.

See Prime Junta's post.

Friendly fire is a factor in determining the size and shape of an area of effect. Just flipping it on would likely result in a bunch of shit spells you can't use.

 

[vivec]

, Obsidian said that would be a terrible idea because the various area of effect abilities are balanced with friendly fire in mind.

How the fuck does one balance AoE effects with friendly fire in mind? Did they assume every x % ofd AoE effects will damage allies? This does not make any sense.

I think, the real problem as someone already pointed it out, is the AI. This was an issue in NWN2. Where party members would nuke themselves and the team in the Hardcore mode. Also, in POE we have the famous count Dracula nuking himself. They probably decided to avoid that. Engagement mechanics complicated the idea even further where you can not have tactical movement once combat is 'engaged'. It very much prevents mobility for melee units. Thus, most spells that are AOE and Friendly fire would be pretty much useless after a few seconds of encounter.

 

[Infinitron]

you can not have tactical movement once combat is 'engaged'. It very much prevents mobility for melee units. Thus, most spells that are AOE and Friendly fire would be pretty much useless after a few seconds of encounter.

PoE_Myths.txt. It only "prevents mobility" because the early low level gameplay trains you to think that disengagement attack = instant death and you don't yet have many abilities that can shake it off. If you actually try and move later on, you'll see that even your squishies can just take the hit and go, and by then you also have access to abilities that can disable the engagement.

 

[vivec]

you can not have tactical movement once combat is 'engaged'. It very much prevents mobility for melee units. Thus, most spells that are AOE and Friendly fire would be pretty much useless after a few seconds of encounter.

PoE_Myths.txt. It only "prevents mobility" because the early low level gameplay trains you to think that disengagement attack = instant death and you don't yet have many abilities that can shake it off. If you actually try and move later on, you'll see that even your squishies can just take the hit and go, and by then you also have access to abilities that can disable the engagement.

Except, it don't work like that. The enemy follows you. So you can't effectively position yourself. It the pretty much simultaneous nature of RTwP, which BTW can be really really good sometimes. It sucks here, because every engagement makes you stall and take a hit.

 

[Infinitron]

If it's a 1v1 maybe. In that situation the smart thing to do is send another party member as backup first, so when you retreat the enemy sticks to him.

 

[vivec]

And then you nuke him. :mrpresident:

 

[Sannom]

One of my favorite ways of cancelling engagement on Aloth was to have Eder use "Into the fray" on the enemy.

And of course, late game, boots of speed.

 

[Infinitron]

I didn't find that stuff to be much of a hindrance to using AoEs anyway. Actually the opposite is true - the enemy AI is more vulnerable to foolishly clumping up next to a front-line fighter who is engaging them then your guys are, so it's easy to hit them all with an AoE without hitting one of your own.

 

[vivec]

I didn't find that stuff to be much of a hindrance to using AoEs anyway. Actually the opposite is true - the enemy AI is more vulnerable to foolishly clumping up next to a front-line fighter who is engaging them then your guys are, so it's easy to hit them all with an AoE without hitting one of your own.

Yeah. That much is true. It *is* totally possible to play around the arrangement. But seems like gaming the system and not something that was planned in.This is reflected in the decision to remove the FF.

 

[Infinitron]

I didn't find that stuff to be much of a hindrance to using AoEs anyway. Actually the opposite is true - the enemy AI is more vulnerable to foolishly clumping up next to a front-line fighter who is engaging them then your guys are, so it's easy to hit them all with an AoE without hitting one of your own.

Yeah. That much is true. It *is* totally possible to play around the arrangement. But seems like gaming the system and not something that was planned in.This is reflected in the decision to remove the FF.

Not sure I follow. Removing friendly fire makes that tactic even easier to use.

They've removed the friendly fire because they want Tyranny to play like Dragon Age (including not having to control your entire party manually), it's not any more complex than that IMO. It'll be back for PoE2.