Tyranny Pre-Release Thread

[Infinitron]

LOL, this reminds me of raw's thing back in 2012 when he was telling people that Kickstarter was unnecessary and "If only one of these developers could put together a GOOD pitch, a publisher would happily fund an isometric RPG! It's their fault, they don't know to sell it!".

Link to rant plz

Heh, it's kind of spread out all over the place. I probably spent too much time arguing with him about it, too. Do a search for posts by raw with the word "publishers" in them.

 

[AwesomeButton]

LOL, this reminds me of raw's thing back in 2012 when he was telling people that Kickstarter was unnecessary and "If only one of these developers could put together a GOOD pitch, a publisher would happily fund an isometric RPG! It's their fault, they don't know to sell it!".

"The fucking leads are weak? You're weak!"

Edit:
"I've been in this business fifteen years!"
Josh Sawyer: "What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! That's my name! You know why, mister? Because you rode a bike to get here tonight, I drove an $80,000 BMW, THAT'S my name!"

 

[Trashos]

I wouldn't put so much stock (in terms of quality) in what publishers believe. The Codex crowd, especially, has no reason to trust the publishers' taste at all.

And yes, what a marketing department can push (or think they can push) is a huge factor in decisions made. Why is that strange?

 

[Roguey]

With all their bullshit ''Publishers are evil and holding our imagination back''

No one at Obsidian has ever said this. You're thinking of Fargo.

 

[Infinitron]

No one at Obsidian has ever said this.

Not quite. In the Kickstarter pitch for Project Eternity, they spoke of "mature themes" they would be able to explore in depth without the yoke of a publisher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC4w9GdFPrg&feature=youtu.be&t=187

I do think PoE explored mature themes, but I'm not sure it's anything they couldn't also have done in a publisher-funded game. But then, I don't think there's really a lot that publishers wouldn't allow in that area. Publisher restrictions are about gameplay, not narrative.

 

[Roguey]

I do think PoE explored mature themes, but I'm not sure it's anything they couldn't do in a publisher-funded game. But then, I don't think there's really a lot that publishers wouldn't allow. Publisher restrictions are about gameplay, not subject matter.

Well, Pillars was rated M and last I checked, WotC had a policy that D&D games absolutely have to be rated T at most. This resulted in the removal of ToEE's brothel and certain dialogues because Wolfman Cain was under the impression they could have a Mature rating.

(also Gann's bisexuality in Mask)

 

[Dwarvophile]

I might be a tad late for this debate but what does Obsidian reproach to Turn Based ? Or what do they find so greaty about RTwP ? I thought those guys were radical enough not to make this kind of compromise to the action rpg mainstream. If I had the choice between Action and RTwP I would take Action, and if I had the choice between RTwP and Turn Based I would definitively go with turn based. I don't know, maybe I just represent a negligible minority, and I'm certainly turn biased (even BG2's combat bored me in the end).

Is there a strong evidence that any newcomer to the RPG world would be repelled by a turn based system more than by PoE's convoluted real time system ? Every kid played chess, draughts/checkers and the vast majority of cardboard games use a turn base system after all.

 

[Infinitron]

I might be a tad late for this debate but what does Obsidian reproach to Turn Based ? Or what do they find so greaty about RTwP ? I thought those guys were radical enough not to make this kind of compromise to the action rpg mainstream. If I had the choice between Action and RTwP I would take Action, and if I had the choice between RTwP and Turn Based I would definitively go with turn based. I don't know, maybe I just represent a negligible minority, and I'm certainly turn biased (even BG2's combat bored me in the end).

Is there a strong evidence that any newcomer to the RPG world would be repelled by a turn based system more than by PoE's convoluted real time system ? Every kid played chess, draughts/checkers and the vast majority of cardboard games use a turn base system after all.

I don't think Obsidian have anything against turn-based but RTwP is basically their niche now since all the other prominent Kickstarter and oldschool RPG devs are doing turn-based (well, except Beamdog now I guess). It's what they're specialized in now.

 

[Dwarvophile]

I don't think Obsidian have anything against turn-based but RTwP is basically their niche now since all the other prominent Kickstarter and oldschool RPG devs are doing turn-based (well, except Beamdog now I guess). It's what they're specialized in now.

Ok then.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Definetly specialized, from looking at PoE's combat.


(I know what you mean, this was just too good to miss though)

 

[Duraframe300]

No one at Obsidian has ever said this.

Not quite. In the Kickstarter pitch for Project Eternity, they spoke of "mature themes" they would be able to explore in depth without the yoke of a publisher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC4w9GdFPrg&feature=youtu.be&t=187

I do think PoE explored mature themes, but I'm not sure it's anything they couldn't also have done in a publisher-funded game. But then, I don't think there's really a lot that publishers wouldn't allow in that area. Publisher restrictions are about gameplay, not narrative.

Yeah, but Obsidian was always like *We would like to continue working with publishers* and *Sometimes Publishers are needed* They never did activly try to burn bridges and they're biggest offenders were things blown out of proportion like the Sawyer Gamebryo comments.

Compare that to Fargo and his *Publisherz are evilz. Red Shoe DLC* and Bethesda rant.

 

[Duraframe300]

I don't think Obsidian have anything against turn-based but RTwP is basically their niche now since all the other prominent Kickstarter and oldschool RPG devs are doing turn-based (well, except Beamdog now I guess). It's what they're specialized in now.

Ok then.

To be said, if you'd ask a lot of designers at Obsidian if they wanna do turn-based (Including Sawyer and Tim) they would like to in a heartbeat. The biggest adversary to the idea is probably Feargus.

 

[Prime Junta]

I don't think Obsidian have anything against turn-based but RTwP is basically their niche now since all the other prominent Kickstarter and oldschool RPG devs are doing turn-based (well, except Beamdog now I guess). It's what they're specialized in now.

Ok then.

To be said, if you'd ask a lot of designers at Obsidian if they wanna do turn-based (Including Sawyer and Tim) they would like to in a heartbeat. The biggest adversary to the idea is probably Feargus.

Maybe if they promise to put in some skeletons guarding a chest in a 10 x 10 foot room in a dungeon...?

 

[Irenaeus III]

PoE is awesomely creative, I have no idea what you retards are talking about.

 

[Fry]

I don't know why anyone thinks Feargus would be opposed to turn-based. The market has demonstrated TB games sell just fine.

Obviously, they built a RTwP engine because that was the only realistic option for an IE successor. Most backers wanted and expected it. Now that they're got this engine, it makes sense to use it.

 

[Fairfax]

Something wrong with it in the eyes of a publisher.

Don't forget that last part, it's rather important.

Still, it was a bunch of time, and many times over the years.

Can't really blame the publisher ,after PoE I wouldn't trust Obsidian even if they would do it for free.

With all their bullshit ''Publishers are evil and holding our imagination back'',PoE has to be the most generic rpg I have played in the las 10-15 years.

A bit hyperbolic IMO, but yes, some fine irony there.

By what definition is Stormlands a failure while Van Buren isn't? They were both cancelled in mid-development because their publisher (who owned the developer in Van Buren's case, which makes the cancellation seem even more damning if anything) didn't think they'd be successful enough.

LOL, this reminds me of raw's thing back in 2012 when he was telling people that Kickstarter was unnecessary and "If only one of these developers could put together a GOOD pitch, a publisher would happily fund an isometric RPG! It's their fault, they don't know to sell it!".

Interplay had turned their focus to console gaming and the company was in shambles.
I wasn't talking just about Stormlands either. Apparently the basic concepts have been around for 10 years. The fact they've been insisting for so long is silly in the first place.
Stormlands is the iteration that came closest to being released. We don't know why it got canned, but Feargus said it took Microsoft just a couple of weeks to have a change of heart. The whole thing sounds very weird to me, because 4 years later the Xbox One still doesn't have a single exclusive RPG. Microsoft decided it was better to have none than take a chance with it.

 

[HoboForEternity]

I don't know why anyone thinks Feargus would be opposed to turn-based. The market has demonstrated TB games sell just fine.

Obviously, they built a RTwP engine because that was the only realistic option for an IE successor. Most backers wanted and expected it. Now that they're got this engine, it makes sense to use it.

They want BG/EE audience, which sold millions

 

[Sannom]

We don't know why it got canned, but Feargus said it took Microsoft just a couple of weeks to have a change of heart.

Don't we? I thought it was implied to be because Stormland didn't look good enough for a launch exclusive.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't know why anyone thinks Feargus would be opposed to turn-based. The market has demonstrated TB games sell just fine.

Obviously, they built a RTwP engine because that was the only realistic option for an IE successor. Most backers wanted and expected it. Now that they're got this engine, it makes sense to use it.

They want BG/EE audience, which sold millions

BG:EE is a $20 game, $10 on mobile, that's why it racks up those numbers (and still sells fewer copies on Steam). You have premium $40 turn-based RPGs selling hundreds of thousand of copies, not to mention XCOM.

 

[Seaking4]

PoE is awesomely creative, I have no idea what you retards are talking about.

They think it's creatively awesome.

 

[Roguey]

I don't know why anyone thinks Feargus would be opposed to turn-based.

http://web.archive.org/web/200409100631 ... p9_01.html
GS: Are games that feature only turn-based combat "dead"? Do you think any RPG you produce will need some form of real-time combat, at least as an option (in spite of the fact that a lot of fans of the Fallout series loved the turn-based combat)?

FU: Dead? I think that has to do with the available time people have, more than any other reason. People need to get through combat quickly, and turn-based combat can drag things along. Turn-based combat is fine if there are three turns. I get frustrated in Wizardry 8, spending four turns just to get to the creatures I want to fight and then spending a long time in battle--sad to say, I just don't feel like I have time for all that, and I think a lot of gamers feel the same way.

GS: And yet turn-based strategy games, like Civilization III, still seem to have a viable market.

FU: That's true because you're not waiting. Except for very short periods of time, you're always in control of the game. In a role-playing game, since you're playing the heroes, your party members will typically be fighting twice as many monsters, and you'll have to wait for all of those enemies to take their turns.

 

[Morgoth]

Ferg has a point though. Fallout is about the only acceptable TB RPG I'd play. Party-based TB is a fucking drudge.

 

[Bubbles]

In a role-playing game, since you're playing the heroes, your party members will typically be fighting twice as many monsters

That explains so much.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Shows how much he knows, when divinity vastly outsold PoE, so did shadowrun for that matter, with both managing to kick-start turn based sequels... Even a tb battletech game.

 

[Roguey]

Venture into the SA forums and you'll see a bunch of goons voicing displeasure at all the waiting you have to do in those games. Feargus wants that coveted goon demographic.