Tyranny + Bastard's Wound Expansion Thread

[Luckmann]

Tyranny had some great ideas but ultimately flawed execution. It's one of those games which I wish the premise and setting was used by another studio capable of handling the details.

people make tranny sound like it was trashy title while in fact I found it quite enjoyable. Skill/spell system was broken but... fun. In a same wasy you dont watch dragonball to see ballanced fights.
While combat in the end becamy cooldown management simulator, it could be easilly fixed by customisable AI a'la bg2 so that it wouldnt be bothering too much.

I liked parts of it. Significant parts, even. The Conquest mechanic was really cool, and while the effects are ultimately fairly shallow when push come to shove, it felt meaningful and gave significant if mostly cosmetic effect - and in a few instances major (such as changing at least one area significantly).

The skill and magic system was very cool. Not well-balanced, and it felt like a lot of potential spells were simply missing, making it appear more open than it actually was, and it has this veneer of alpha-stage stuff that looks placeholder-ish, but the idea was really great. Ultimately, I felt like the game should've been more upfront both mechanically and narratively about the role of magic in the setting, because there is literally no reason not to make everyone some kind of mage, and even your physical combatants should be more slinging at least basic spells. This can easily be worked into a setting and a narrative, but it wasn't, so it feels slightly wrong to make Barik and Verse magicians. All you need to hammer in that anyone can learn magic in this setting and have a small dialogue with normally non-magic-casting characters about how it's weird to them or whatever.

The setting is top-notch, and I find the story itself, as well as the premise, how you're this dude showing up, pitched as either a fanatical inquisitor or maybe just some dude trying to make the best out of a shit situation, the fatalism of even the "evil" factions and how they were essentially press-ganged into this too, once upon a time; all fantastic. Unfortunately, the storytelling is ass, you're on rails, and contained/isolated narratives are not woven together well at all (if even at all). There's also the whole issue with "you can only do 3 areas because uuh.." that feels hamfisted and artificial. And then the entire resolution peters out and falls over itself, and then the game just ends. But the underlying mystery, the towers, how faith seems to make people in demigods, the bronze-age setting with a far-away-not!-Rome, how "sometimes, Evil wins", etc., all great.

I think Tyranny suffered because it was a small side-project. It simply didn't get the resources and manpower necessary or realize its potential. And that potential was legit great. It could've blown Pillows of Eternity out of the water.

And that's a damn shame.

 

[Luckmann]

Also, if I were an ancient Greek, I'd say Kyros did nothing wrong. The Conquest path I chose gave the opposition ample time to surrender and negotiate the capitulation, the Bastard City gave up willingly only after a strategic elimination of key people, not by the streets running red with blood. Even now, if my ideology were "might makes right" (and why wouldn't it be if all the might was mine?) I'd say the same thing, especially peppered with the idea I bring order, equality, and law. Tyranny inadvertently pushes an ethical objectivism point of view from the very beginning, something I'm sure the nu-writers aren't very fond of.

I think this is a conflict that's evident from very early in the game, too, especially post-Progolue. The setting says (or wants to say) one thing, while the quests and narratives contained within keeps suggesting something else. Most of the quests and narratives paint a very clear good/evil dichotomy based in western nu-values, while the setting as a whole seems to be steeped in a bronze-age mindset and moral agnosticism where ethics are derived from supreme mandate.

actual spoiler if you haven't progressed significantly in the game

Ironically, that/those supreme mandate(s) are revealed to be subconcious gestalt mandates of the people, but that just makes it more interesting and deeper; it doesn't come across as some hamfisted point about how it was democracy all along and how the real adventure was the anarchy we made along the way and kyros man bad

I don't think the individual writers as a group understood the narrative lead. Like Avellone said, he kept being pulled away to do Pillows-related stuff, so it's entirely possible that oversight failed, exacerbated by the fact that it was clearly a side project, which is why (I think) many quests are so simplistic on any given set of rails.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Lacrymas]

There's no reason not to give everyone magic. The hardest encounter in the game is significantly easier if everyone can at least heal.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Togukawa]

I think Tyranny suffered because it was a small side-project. It simply didn't get the resources and manpower necessary or realize its potential. And that potential was legit great. It could've blown Pillows of Eternity out of the water.

Yeah. Even as frustrating as it was, I still played Tyranny three times to at least see the different rails. The concept is great, the setting is great, it has several interesting characters.
Poe I struggled to reach the end at all because I just didn't give a shit about anything or anyone in it and obviously I never replayed it.

What a massive wasted opportunity. Some more opportunities to jump rails, some more quest resolutions (or just opening more outcomes regardless of the rail you are on), a proper companion quest for all companions and a decent ending, and this would have been an excellent game. It's a shame they didn't fix it with patches or expansions.

I also will never forgive, never forget that this game led to the loss of Bubbles .

 

[Luckmann]

I still played Tyranny three times to at least see the different rails.

Well then congratulations, you can go back, because there's actually four. Rebels, Unbroken, Chorus, and Anarchist.

You might've missed Anarchist, because it necessitates you acting like a complete retard at one of those rail-switching points.

 

[Lacrymas]

I think you can also side with Kyros? That was patched in later.

What a massive wasted opportunity. Some more opportunities to jump rails, some more quest resolutions (or just opening more outcomes regardless of the rail you are on), a proper companion quest for all companions and a decent ending, and this would have been an excellent game. It's a shame they didn't fix it with patches or expansions.

I think they added companion quests later? I know Verse and Barrik have one. And here's the thing, it needed a lot more to be an excellent game. More types of enemies and dungeons, the cooldowns are not good in this type of game, the MMO colors of items are iffy, and it needs better writing in general. It feels like the nu-writers have never experienced hardship in their lives and have no personal experience with the topics they are trying to explore. That leads to exhibiting this bland, unreal quality, and works against the intended point they are trying to convey. They don't know that, though, and that's the problem. The only one on the writing team who could've contributed something was Tim Cain's husband, the bear dude, but it feels like the only homophobia he has struggled with is someone calling him a fag, rather than systemic culture-wide crusades that at best fuck with you for decades if not your entire life, at worst allow people to stone you to death or hang you in a public spectacle after torturing you and your lover and declaring it the moral good. The worst evils are the ones which we are used to and everyone takes part in. You know? Everyone else is a millenial living in one of the best places in the world, America might be a capitalist hellscape but it's not a third world country by any means.

Well, that was a tangent. Either way, this game had no chance given the circumstances and the premise. It could've been a pale Pillars of Eternity: Age of Decadence edition with a better budget, but that's it.

 

[Luckmann]

I think you can also side with Kyros? That was patched in later.

Yes, but it doesn't get a full rail. It's some minor nonsense right on the end that comes off as weird and awkward and how you were just pretending to be retarded.

They basically phoned it in so people would stop complaining.

 

[Togukawa]

Fair enough, excellent was indeed too strong a word.

I got bored halfway through the Chorus playthrough, and I never went back to see the Kyros ending either. Sounds like I didn't miss anything.

They added DLC companion quest for Verse, Barrik and Lantry, but the others don't have one if I remember correctly.

 

[Fishy]

I don't know what it's like in the other endings, but I went out of my way to remain loyal to Kyros/Tunon and demonstrating it in the final trial was actually pretty entertaining. Tunon's reaction was hilarious I thought. The way I see it, after the game ends, my character goes back to Kyros, lays down the keys to the Tiers, and happily accepts judgement from the Overlord, knowing full well that it might mean their head, if only to ensure that there isn't a powerful living individual out there acting as a symbol/temptation for all the unhappy plebs. Ffs, for once a game has a different premise, it wasn't to play yet again a rebel hero fighting the tyranny... Commitment to the greater good has no room for personal safety or self-preservation. My work is done Overlord, do what you will with the life of your servant.

 

[Erebus]

Some more opportunities to jump rails, some more quest resolutions (or just opening more outcomes regardless of the rail you are on), a proper companion quest for all companions and a decent ending, and this would have been an excellent game.

It's true that those things would have improved the game. But, in order to be excellent, Tyranny would also need to greatly improve its combat encounters. After the first Act, they become more and more repetitive. There's a great lack of diversity as far as the enemies are concerned. The Banes are unbelievably boring. And the fights against the Archons in the final Act are fairly uninspired.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Fishy]

Tunon's reaction was hilarious I thought

if you rebel, like trully rebel its even better

Spoiler

you prove that kyros lost its way and you carry will of kyros better than him, sort of

Dunno, I really enjoyed

Spoiler

Tunon being completely dumbfounded at actually finding you innocent. He's like "WTF?! I didn't think that was even possible and it's me who came to that conclusion! Er.... could I be your sidekick?".

 

[Storyfag]

Commitment to the greater good has no room for personal safety or self-preservation. My work is done Overlord, do what you will with the life of your servant.

Too bad the fuckers had to haphazardly patch the option in post-launch.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Fishy

Spoiler

I liked being acquitted too, but the whole part where Tunon starts kneeling before you didn't make a lot of sense to me. It felt forced and contrary to its character.

One thing that really disappointed me, was that I expected Tunon to be an aspect, or projection of Bleden Mark. Bleden Mark is presented as archon of shadows. He's misdirection incarnate. Tuton looks like a puppet held up with shadows from the pit. The two archons work in concert, with Bleden Mark popping up in the field to both observe, test, and cultivate you. I was surprised when that wasn't revealed. Oh well.

 

[Ol' Willy]

if you rebel, like trully rebel its even better

Spoiler

you prove that kyros lost its way and you carry will of kyros better than him, sort of

So you had to serve the dark overlord faithfully, but when he's weak you step up, denounce his methods but not goals, remove the opposition, and take his place?

Seems kinda familiar

 

[Fishy]

Fishy

Spoiler

I liked being acquitted too, but the whole part where Tunon starts kneeling before you didn't make a lot of sense to me. It felt forced and contrary to its character.

One thing that really disappointed me, was that I expected Tunon to be an aspect, or projection of Bleden Mark. Bleden Mark is presented as archon of shadows. He's misdirection incarnate. Tuton looks like a puppet held up with shadows from the pit. The two archons work in concert, with Bleden Mark popping up in the field to both observe, test, and cultivate you. I was surprised when that wasn't revealed. Oh well.

I have yet to replay, but

Spoiler

is Mark basically a traitor more waiting for his moment than anything? Iirc he only sides with you if you go down the Anarchy path. He was the one character I expected a lot more from, but the loyalist path just doesn't bring him out apart from him trying to kill you at the end. Tunon's knee-bending is a bit awkward alright, but I see it as the reaction of a broken thing that breaks a bit further after seeing his gaze challenged and broken, the shock that you did enforce Kyros law better than he thought possible while breaking bits of it just wrecks his process.

It's been a while though. I guess it might be time for a second playthrough.

 

[Luckmann]

Fishy

Spoiler

I liked being acquitted too, but the whole part where Tunon starts kneeling before you didn't make a lot of sense to me. It felt forced and contrary to its character.

One thing that really disappointed me, was that I expected Tunon to be an aspect, or projection of Bleden Mark. Bleden Mark is presented as archon of shadows. He's misdirection incarnate. Tuton looks like a puppet held up with shadows from the pit. The two archons work in concert, with Bleden Mark popping up in the field to both observe, test, and cultivate you. I was surprised when that wasn't revealed. Oh well.

I have yet to replay, but

Spoiler

is Mark basically a traitor more waiting for his moment than anything? Iirc he only sides with you if you go down the Anarchy path. He was the one character I expected a lot more from, but the loyalist path just doesn't bring him out apart from him trying to kill you at the end. Tunon's knee-bending is a bit awkward alright, but I see it as the reaction of a broken thing that breaks a bit further after seeing his gaze challenged and broken, the shock that you did enforce Kyros law better than he thought possible while breaking bits of it just wrecks his process.

It's been a while though. I guess it might be time for a second playthrough.

As far as I remember

Spoiler

Bleden Mark is actually extremely loyal, and you actually have to have very high favor with him and spin the whole thing as either beneficial to Kyros or that you are more worthy than Kyros, or something along those lines. The reason he guides you down the anarchist's path is more because the other two archons are traitorous.

It's not very well-written in practice, partially because the hard set of rails you're on at any one time.

 

[Sarathiour]

I really liked tyranny, and will probably soon give another playtrough, but as lot of people here, the wasted potential is what irk me the most.

Also, i don't recommand NG+, it just turn every enemies and their mother into health sponges. Or just leave the AI do the playing and enjoy the animation.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Darth Canoli]

i cant see myself replaying tyranny. My anarchist playthrough was just perfect, up to the point i dont really care about other paths.
Its like with aod playthrough where you betray everyone. On each step of your journey. Like my non combat thief that also ascended. Everything executed perfectly. Wanted to do few other things in different breakthroughs but since it couldnt match beauty of what I did previously I lost heart

I chose the same path but quit after dealing with the library, the rebels and the old wall, loading screens and the combat defeated me.
Betraying everyone was quite fun though, this game was really close to becoming a classic, all it needed was to use ToEE engine...

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I actually tried to play the game as a loyal adjudicator. I tried to play it "Lawful Neutral", with law being my first consideration. I was forced at the last minute to side with the Chorus, but both factions were ultimately guilty. This resulting in me purging the whole region, which the game seemed to interpret as me going a bit renegade. Kyros started to clench up by the end of the game, but I was able to smooth things over. Overall I was satisfied with my outcomes, and I saw enough of the other choices to where don't really imagine playing it any other way. The game was definitely underdeveloped, which is a shame. Even with its low production values, I enjoyed it far more than PoE.

 

[Luckmann]

"Lawful Neutral"

purging the whole region

 

[Storyfag]

"Lawful Neutral"

purging the whole region

There is no contradiction here...