Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Bleed the Man

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
655
Location
Spain
Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Is there a problem with wanting Vin Diesel in Torment?

Vin is cool, specially as a voice actor, unless it's the money to get him the problem.
 

hiver

Guest
He also charges .... one million dollars.... for everytime he says "groot".
 

Karwelas

Dwarf Taffer
Patron
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
1,091
Location
"Mostly Harmless" planet
Codex Year of the Donut I helped put crap in Monomyth
Vin Diesel is a fukken bro


For some reason Vin Diesel remind me someone.

Hmm.

Minsc.jpg
 

prodigydancer

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
1,399
How else would you take advantage of it?
By making AoO a toggle of course. You want to use it, you turn it on. It'll then trigger automatically but it will eat your regular attack.

Your problem is that you're trying to persuade yourself that free and instant AoO is fair.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,893
The concept simply doesn't work (and isn't required at all) in real-time which is why you basically have to resign to saying "it has to be free and instantaneous". Think about what you're saying.

"Zone of Control" style bullshit can be done in real-time, but AoO's is the most retarded way to do it (as it's just copy pasta a turn-based system lmao).

Didn't you yourself say you prefer threat-based systems? They work in real-time. I hate them because I hate anything systemic that takes away the control of my character(s) (other than spells like charm/fear/confusion etc). But they do work.

AoOs simply should not have ever been included in real-time games. There are plenty of better ways to do the same thing that aren't flawed by design.

I've already stated that RTWP is bastardized turn-based with many turn-based elements. You don't buy this, but we have been over it. That's why I have zero issues with its implementation in a supposed 'real-time' system.

Threat is a mechanic solely afforded to the player. If you give it to the enemies, it literally 'takes the wheel' from the player. AoO is entirely within the player's control to activate are not so it can be given to him and his enemies.

I like threat because in MMOs it gave melee characters and 'tanky' characters a real job to do, but it is strictly a player-focused mechanic. It's why I called it the 'ugly cousin.'


How else would you take advantage of it?
By making AoO a toggle of course. You want to use it, you turn it on. It'll then trigger automatically but it will eat your regular attack.

Your problem is that you're trying to persuade yourself that free and instant AoO is fair.

If it eats your regular attack then there is no AoO in 1vs1 situations. When the person departs, you're attacking just as you always would, no? Because you've made it "eat" a regular attack. If you're in 1v1 and someone passes through your area, you attack them, but give your opponent a free attack as well. This is a pretty broken way of implementing it. I can already foresee abuse and zaniness associated with juggling enemy regular attacks. This is not at all a good system.

Free and instant is fair because both sides do it, and both sides understand it's there. And like I said, there are costs, just not immediately obvious ones: melee literally has to be standing next to you for it to activate. There is a cost associated with needing to stand next to someone to get a potential AoO, not an automatic one (after all, a character must move away or through to trigger it). You obviously didn't transport yourself to be next the mage free of charge, so why should they be able to relieve themselves of such a precarious situation free of charge? It took you time and potentially even health to stand there, did it not? While everyone else is attacking and doing damage, you are... walking. This is why things like AoO and ZoC's elevate the importance of positioning and buffs the value of melee. If you can cruise through melee lines untouched, melee's importance and tactical value plummets. If melee's reward for sneaking to a mage or ranger is that said enemies go into kite mode, what is the reward in that? Furthermore, craftier characters like rogues get a nice boost since their ability to navigate Zones of Control is unique. Instead of just being pure damage dealers, they can be apt at acquiring better positions. You know, tactical shit.

And I think there is far too much bitching about just how "effective" these free AoO's actually are. They're not game-ending. They're minor thumps on the head to remind you not to fuck up your party positioning. It's not like Total War where the cavalry crashing into your archers is GG. It's not a game over situation at all. It's a minor mechanic nestled amongst many others, neither overpowered or underpowered.
 

Sensuki

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
9,833
Location
New North Korea
Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
I've already stated that RTWP is bastardized turn-based with many turn-based elements. You don't buy this, but we have been over it. That's why I have zero issues with its implementation in a supposed 'real-time' system.

Threat is a mechanic solely afforded to the player. If you give it to the enemies, it literally 'takes the wheel' from the player. AoO is entirely within the player's control to activate are not so it can be given to him and his enemies.

Yeah because it's total bullshit.

Regarding threats there's no difference between AI having threat-based stuff (e.g., Dragon Age Origins) or player only (MMO) because either way when someone other than you uses a threat-like ability and it affects you, you lose some aspect of control from your character. Which I hate. Whether the AI does it or whether a player does it makes no difference.
 

m_s0

Arcane
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
1,292
Unless he'd be doing this for free, which I doubt regardless of how big a bro he might be, this seems like a waste of resources to me. Squash some bugs for whatever you'd be paying him. Or give somebody a bonus, or something.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,677
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Unless he'd be doing this for free, which I doubt regardless of how big a bro he might be

Hey, this is a Kickstarted game. Some people donate thousands of dollars - others might donate their voice.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,893
I've already stated that RTWP is bastardized turn-based with many turn-based elements. You don't buy this, but we have been over it. That's why I have zero issues with its implementation in a supposed 'real-time' system.

Threat is a mechanic solely afforded to the player. If you give it to the enemies, it literally 'takes the wheel' from the player. AoO is entirely within the player's control to activate are not so it can be given to him and his enemies.

Yeah because it's total bullshit.

Regarding threats there's no difference between AI having threat-based stuff (e.g., Dragon Age Origins) or player only (MMO) because either way when someone other than you uses a threat-like ability and it affects you, you lose some aspect of control from your character. Which I hate. Whether the AI does it or whether a player does it makes no difference.

Do you mean 'Taunt' like skills? I don't know of any game where the AI uses the same threat mechanics as the player.


BTW, Vin Diesel is a gaming nut, including DnD/RPGs. There is a legitimate chance he would do this for free. I wouldn't want any Kickstarter project blowing money on overly expensive VO talent, though.
 

m_s0

Arcane
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
1,292
Passion is one thing, working for free is another, especially for a Hollywood actor. I don't care one way or the other if he does this for free, but spending money on him just because he used to play D&D is a terrible idea.

Oh, and I do realize this may not be the only motive.
 

StaticSpine

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Messages
3,232
Location
Moscow
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Vin Diesel has his own game development studio called Tigon Studios. And he is a D&D fan. So he might be a bro and help out for free.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom