Decline Thiaf Pre-Release Thread

[Blaine]

What I think he means (or perhaps more accurately, what I hope he means—given a theoretical universe in which I actually have any expectations for this game, that is) is that although the main character is a thief, by providing players with the option to act out of character to a limited degree, the illusion that your character is "choosing" to be a thief in a world where other life paths are viable can be more readily maintained.

However, they're balancing the entire game around this concept, which... well... these are folks who can't let darkness be dark, so... yeah.

 

[DalekFlay]

Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory pretty much perfected giving you violent outs without turning the game into a shooter. It was praised for it too, and it tended to be a game both stealth fans and bro gamers enjoyed on some level. The industry never learns from example though, some developer who thinks he is a genius is always waiting to get another million people to like the series.

 

[Tigranes]

....now they can't even make trailers? Really?

 

[Gelbvieh]

They probably can, but that's a teaser. Different thing, different purpose.

 

[agentorange]

 

[Tigranes]

They probably can, but that's a teaser. Different thing, different purpose.

Except it's a terrible teaser. Even within the genre of "no-gameplay all-cinematic we-are-so-cool" there is good and bad, and nobody's going to be impressed with a 10 second shot of putting a candle out (slowly).

 

[Gelbvieh]

They probably can, but that's a teaser. Different thing, different purpose.

Except it's a terrible teaser. Even within the genre of "no-gameplay all-cinematic we-are-so-cool" there is good and bad, and nobody's going to be impressed with a 10 second shot of putting a candle out (slowly).

But that's it, there's hardly ever any gameplay in a teaser of this sort. You might get a few frames of cool things happening or w/e, but the important point is just to get people talking about it, mentioning the thing but without any specifics, drum up excitement or even just awareness so that when you then on the date in the teaser come out with your big reveal it looks all the more functional and coherent for it. Or just more people click the news story.
Just saying, that's how it works. Doesn't always of course, but it's not uncommon for a teaser to be this cryptic.

 

[Data4]

They probably can, but that's a teaser. Different thing, different purpose.

Except it's a terrible teaser. Even within the genre of "no-gameplay all-cinematic we-are-so-cool" there is good and bad, and nobody's going to be impressed with a 10 second shot of putting a candle out (slowly).

But that's it, there's hardly ever any gameplay in a teaser of this sort. You might get a few frames of cool things happening or w/e, but the important point is just to get people talking about it, mentioning the thing but without any specifics, drum up excitement or even just awareness so that when you then on the date in the teaser come out with your big reveal it looks all the more functional and coherent for it. Or just more people click the news story.
Just saying, that's how it works. Doesn't always of course, but it's not uncommon for a teaser to be this cryptic.

I don't want to be an apologist or anything, because... you know... that fucking corset.

But this is true. Merely bitching about the teaser means it did its job.

 

[Borelli]

....now they can't even make trailers? Really?

That candle should have been extinguished by a water arrow.

 

[agentorange]

....now they can't even make trailers? Really?

That candle should have been extinguished by a water arrow.

Also would have helped if, you know, it actually got dark. Whole video looks like someone turned the gamma way up.

Here is an example of that sort of ultra minimal trailer done right.

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

:D

Stupidity Is the Only Option: The entire plot of the first game is driven by this. What idiot would possibly think that unsealing the ancient Hammerite Cathedral and freeing the Eye from its confinement would be a good idea, after the Eye talks to him in his head and visibly manifests its obvious evil on several occasions? For that matter, what idiot would think that Constantine had any intention of actually paying him that ridiculously oversized a fee for delivering the Eye, when he could simply mug Garrett and take it from him? Garrett didn't even get half the money up front. Apparently his streetwise instincts and common sense completely

evaporate if you wave a bag of gold under his nose... which is in character for Garrett, at least.

• This is especially true considering the cathedral is in a part of the City that was walled off. Garrett's tone in describing the abandoned part of city seemed fairly skeptical of the actual danger. If the Hammerites were comfortable with leaving such an important artifact in a sealed cathedral in a sealed part of the City, it's fairly safe to assume the Hammers know something Garrett doesn't.

In Thief: The Dark Project, the preliminary missions end and the main plot arc begins when you accept a mission from a mysterious man named Constantine to steal an artifact gem known as the Eye, the offered fee being more money than an entire army of thieves could steal in a lifetime. Despite finding out, as the next several missions progress, that the Eye is sealed in a cathedral in the abandoned, zombie-infested quarter of the city, that the Eye is a sentient magic item that talks to Garrett in his head and tries to get him killed, and that the cathedral in question was sealed away by a mysterious sect of hidden protectors known as the Keepers (that Garrett, as a former member of, knows just exactly how serious their duties are and what sort of threat it takes to make Keepers consider interfering in events at all), requiring Garrett to retrieve four artifact keys hidden with three separate factions at enormous expense and effort in four widely separated locations... not once throughout this entire chain of events does it even begin to cross Garrett's mind that maybe, just maybe, any magical artifact that people have gone to this much effort to bury should stay buried. Instead, in order to progress to further chapters, the protagonist must carry the Eye back to Constantine. Who, of course, immediately reveals himself as an evil deity bound in human form, thanks you for retrieving the artifact, and embarks on his long-delayed plan to destroy the world. Oh, and he tries to kill you. And you don't get paid a dime. You'd think Garrett would have been able to see it coming, really. The ancient Hammerite Cathedral even has a sign hung on the outside that says "Warning: Great evil resides in this place, and it is no longer fit for men. The doors are sealed to protect us from that which lies within. Do not remain here.", and the game's storyline still has Garrett not stopping to think about this. Even for a second. And about Constantine, he has a whole "plants growing" motif in his introductory cutscene when the local Satan figure is a malevolent nature deity. Making it even less surprising when he turns out to be said Satan figure.

It's Probably Just Rats: No, guards. It is a thief about to blackjack you.

Fantasy Gun Control: The world of Thief has scientific advances such as electricity, steam engines, clockwork robots, surveillance devices and even stun grenades (flashbombs and gas grenades), but there are no gunpowder firearms to be seen (which amusingly contrasts the otherwise accurate Late Medieval-like setting). Even the City Watch and Mechanists are armed with swords, maces, bows, and crossbows at best.

• The cannons require gunpowder, and they can be seen on ships and, of course, the Children of Karras. The cannonballs also have fuses that are lit. And they act more like cluster grenades after landing on the ground and lying still for about a second or two.

 

[Darth Roxor]

after the Eye talks to him in his head and visibly manifests its obvious evil on several occasions?

Wut. The only thing it does is tell Garrett via telepathy 'lol, another hotshot idiot coming to take me out'.

Anyway, it has always struck me that G basically ignores all those "obvious signs" and doesn't "stop to think" because he's way too cynical to believe he might be way over his head in this. And probably after spending his time with the keepers he realises that they are known to overreact because 'lul sum prophecy somewhere told of BIG BAD THINGS'. Also, obviously, $$$$$$$ vision prob blinds him considerably as well. This attitude sticks with him all the way down to the big reveal:

"Victoria is right, mr Garrett. This eye is completely blind."
"Are you mad? It's just a rock, it can't be blind."

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

after the Eye talks to him in his head and visibly manifests its obvious evil on several occasions?

Wut. The only thing it does is tell Garrett via telepathy 'lol, another hotshot idiot coming to take me out'.

I guess it's about Cataclysm, Sealed Section, undead everywhere and trolling Garrett inside the Haunted Cathedral. If a rock can talk to you, it surely can be blind among being other things.

Thief games were never about a Torment-esque plot to me anyway, so I don't really mind.

(Speaking of which, having recently replayed both of those games in lieu of hearing about the abomination this thread is about; Thief 2 has severe problems with pacing. The plot is predictable and basically obvious by Eavesdropping.)

 

[Unkillable Cat]

The only time The Eye does anything except talk to Garrett is when it reseals the Cathredal, trapping Garrett inside and forcing him to seek another way out. An act of evil? Dunno, but it seems to me that The Eye had the power to leave the Cathredal whenever it chose to do so. Why didn't it?

So... yeah. There are a few derpy points about the plot in Thief 1.

Thief 2, as people are well aware of, was to be reworked and updated in a Thief 2 Gold release, but Looking Glass got shut down after they'd just started on the project.

 

[Tigranes]

They probably can, but that's a teaser. Different thing, different purpose.

Except it's a terrible teaser. Even within the genre of "no-gameplay all-cinematic we-are-so-cool" there is good and bad, and nobody's going to be impressed with a 10 second shot of putting a candle out (slowly).

But that's it, there's hardly ever any gameplay in a teaser of this sort. You might get a few frames of cool things happening or w/e, but the important point is just to get people talking about it, mentioning the thing but without any specifics, drum up excitement or even just awareness so that when you then on the date in the teaser come out with your big reveal it looks all the more functional and coherent for it. Or just more people click the news story.
Just saying, that's how it works. Doesn't always of course, but it's not uncommon for a teaser to be this cryptic.

Except I just told you that even within the 'no-gameplay' types of teasers just designed to get people talking, this one hits a particular low because there's nothing to even say that "that looks cool". This kind of "we're too cool to actually say or do anything" teaser only works when your franchise is Halo or something, not a niche franchise where all of its fans already know about it and think it's going to the gutter.

Anyway, that's enough free hype I've given to the shit trailer... :D

 

[Gord]

The only time The Eye does anything except talk to Garrett is when it reseals the Cathredal, trapping Garrett inside and forcing him to seek another way out. An act of evil? Dunno, but it seems to me that The Eye had the power to leave the Cathredal whenever it chose to do so. Why didn't it?

So... yeah. There are a few derpy points about the plot in Thief 1.

Thief 2, as people are well aware of, was to be reworked and updated in a Thief 2 Gold release, but Looking Glass got shut down after they'd just started on the project.

I think the seals in form of the 4 totems you had to find locked the eye there.
Only after they had been removed the eye could probably been able to change much about the situation, but I always assumed that the eye needed someone to act upon - other sentient beings, or at least their dead bodies.

It's true though that Garrett is strangely naive about the danger this object may pose. Or he simply doesn't care as long as he's paid.
Then again, he probably decided not to pay much attention to prophecies, mysticism or magic after he left the Keepers.
Probably active denial out of spite.

After all it takes two games until he starts to warm up to the Keepers again.

 

[skacky]

I don't think the Eye needed someone to act upon, since it can move freely in the cathedral. If I remember correctly there's a scroll somewhere that says that the Hammerites tried to lock it in their safe in the basement but the Eye always managed to get out mysteriously. Had it not be sealed, I think it would have been able to go anywhere and do anything it wanted on its own, but the thing is Deadly Shadows contradicts this since the Eye is on display in the Wieldstrom Museum and isn't sealed anymore.

 

[Darth Roxor]

If you ask me, the eye just did everything for its own amusement. Shut the doors, levitate, stay on a museum display, all for the lulz.

 

[Gord]

Was it the real eye on display there?
Because I doubt the Hammerites would allow this after what we saw in T1.

Then again, it wouldn't be the first retcon or logical fallacy in gaming history...

 

[skacky]

Yeah, that's the real one. It's talking to Garrett (it also wants his other eye, someday) and it's plot-related.

 

[SCO]

I think the eye a pretty cool essential reagent of Armageddon, eh, sentient despite being mineral and doesn’t afraid of anything.


I never considered Thief or Thief 2 (especially) great narrative masterpieces. Fanboyism tends to make people give it unnatural 'masterpiece narrative' qualities that don't have much justification because of the superb gameplay (also, the fangirls orgasming over SR voice are just embarrassing).

The eye is a bit mysterious though. What's the backstory the fans have created for it? Ancestor civilization artifact? (though why would anyone want to make a object sentient and give it the ability to raise the dead is a question best left unpondered).

 

[Melan]

By computer game standards, Thief has rock solid narrative. It is logical, doesn't overstate its points, and leaves the finer details of the plot to be reconstructed by the player, no walls of text involved. It also has great closure, so much so that the second game feels wrong for having Garrett as its protagonist.

 

[aVENGER]

Meh.

If they get Stephen Russell back as Garret, I might get it for the sake of completeness. Other than that, not particularly excited about this.

EDIT - also the new font/logo looks like crap. What was wrong with reusing this?

 

[SCO]

By computer game standards, Thief has rock solid narrative. It is logical, doesn't overstate its points, and leaves the finer details of the plot to be reconstructed by the player, no walls of text involved. It also has great closure, so much so that the second game feels wrong for having Garrett as its protagonist.

Nope (ok trinity is not "logical", and this is all wall of text)

 

[Gord]

Yeah, that's the real one. It's talking to Garrett (it also wants his other eye, someday) and it's plot-related.

Obviously it has been a while since I replayed T3...
Maybe after I'm finished with my replay of T2.