Decline Thiaf Pre-Release Thread

[Captain Crusade]

^Exactly, making a good Thief game should not be a difficult thing, i mean all you need is:
1. Graphics engine that isn't shit and can handle shadows
2. Good level design
3. Non retarded AI
4. Decent stealth mechanics
5. Stephen Russell
6. A non retarded story
7. Atmospheric sound effects and art style
8. Main hero who is weak in straight up combat
Oh, and moddability.

When it comes to technical issues the answer to all of the above is "it's 2014 and i want to hear no excuses." The main obstacle to a good Thief game is the designer's will to choose to implement those things and not cave in to consolitis(budget wasted on cinematics, small levels, everything spelled out for you etc.)

to all the above, save for

8. Straight up combat in Thief should be a loosing affair, I completely agree. But that should be because being in combat results in Garret being swarmed by guards, crossbowmen, etc. And a single bolt from a quarrel, a stab with a sword, etc should severely cripple Garret, making running away much more difficult due to reduced movement, limping, a trail of blood, etc. However, in the original Thief, Garret was extensively trained in the art of swordplay by the Watchers. One on one Garret should be more than a match for any guardsmen, with their armor being the only mitigating factor, making them tougher.

I'm not saying straight up assaults should be the way to play Thief at all, just that Garett should be a superior swordsman than your average guard. Ofcourse the game world could have other characters, like duelists & blademasters who are better than Garret one on one.

No, the main obstacle to a good Thief game is that Looking Glass Studios is no more.

This too.

 

[Bubbles]

Assassin Creed 2 managed something not half bad, with a large city open to the player. And this was years ago.

The Assassins Creed engine is a towering achievement in game design though. Can't really expect that from Eidos shovelware.

 

[racofer]

Source engine is all we need.

 

[adddeed]

lol at all the neckbeard fanboys fomaing over a game. Thief hasn't been releveant for a decade, no one gives a shite about the series. They can do whatever they want with this one. And this is a reboot not a sequel. If i want to play Thief 1 and 2 ill go play Thief 1 and 2 for fuks sake.

 

[skacky]

If you want to troll, do it better next time.

 

[Caim]

Well, if you want Stephen Russell as a master thief itch scratched, I could point you to a game better than Thiaf where there was such a character:

Spoiler

...

Spoiler

How the might have fallen...

 

[J_C]

lol at all the neckbeard fanboys fomaing over a game. Thief hasn't been releveant for a decade, no one gives a shite about the series. They can do whatever they want with this one. And this is a reboot not a sequel. If i want to play Thief 1 and 2 ill go play Thief 1 and 2 for fuks sake.

Yeah, please shut the door behind you.

 

[Bubbles]

Well, if you want Stephen Russell as a master thief itch scratched, I could point you to a game better than Thiaf where there was such a character:

Spoiler

...

Spoiler

How the might have fallen...

You know, he'd still be Garrett if he'd stayed in shape and been able to do his own stunts.

 

[Jack]

With modern consoles though, there should not have been any problems. All they had to do was make a medium sized town, populate it with NPCs with their own schedules and certain buildings you could enter and do missions in. Add in good AI, good stealth, unique weapons, and that's about it.

God no, the city hub was one of the many reasons Thief: Not Part Three sucked. Including parts of the city in missions is fine, but when you decide to let the player roam around between missions the result will inevitably be a rather dull affair, since you either make it a area about the size of a mission that you replay each time you finish one over and over or a large empty bland area without the detail individual missions provide that just feels like filler. Even if you managed to make the hub like a mini metroidvania thingy or something slightly worthwhile that changed each time you visited it the whole thing would still feel out of place and most probably detract from other areas of the game.

The older thief games were all about minimalism and focus, removing everything but the essentials, I honestly don't see what an city hub adds. Hitman is another game which does mission based gameplay excellently, would it really have become a better game if it had tacked on GTA elements? I don't think so.

On another note, this is how Garrote sneaks:

Gorrott

And while I was reading a blog about level design I found this funny, Thiaf doesn't even entrust the player with a jump button.

Spoiler

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Also, ban ADDdeed.

 

[CSM]

In other news, Heresy was banned from the Eidos Forums as he has the "Permanent Vacation" tag. Please note that the post that got him banned was just the post where he finally admitted that Thiaf is going to flop!

Who is heresy and why should anyone give a fuck about another forum's drama?

 

[Echo Mirage]

In other news, Heresy was banned from the Eidos Forums as he has the "Permanent Vacation" tag. Please note that the post that got him banned was just the post where he finally admitted that Thiaf is going to flop!

Who is heresy and why should anyone give a fuck about another forum's drama?

Heresy was the Eidos montreal official forums dumbfuck of unimaginable proportions. He referred to every post he ever made as being "classic" and hated any game more then 4 years old calling them "relics". He praised EM on every stupid decision no matter how bad it was.

As for why Alex is bringing it up was because Heresy was the biggest white knight on those forums besides the moderators, who let him say whatever he wanted, attack anyone he wanted, and break any rules he wanted without consequences. Yet the second he says he hopes Thiaf flops into the bargain bin he is banned in a heart beat.

And when I say he was a Dumbfuck. I mean codex day one Dumbfucked and banned. Thats how bad he was.

 

[skacky]

New preview. http://www.vg247.com/2014/01/31/thi...e-but-is-a-very-different-game/#comments-list
Funniest bit: “The levels are really smaller than say for example a shooter game,” Cantin said. “Being claustrophobic was kind of an important thing for us. You need to feel the world, to feel the city."

 

[Cowboy Moment]

2. Good level design
4. Decent stealth mechanics
6. A non retarded story
7. Atmospheric sound effects and art style

All of these are extremely difficult for current AAA developers. The only recent big budget game I can think of that has good-ish level design, is Dishonored, and that's helmed by Harvey Smith.

Well, Dark Souls as well, but it's a very different kind of "good" there.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

New preview. http://www.vg247.com/2014/01/31/thi...e-but-is-a-very-different-game/#comments-list
Funniest bit: “The levels are really smaller than say for example a shooter game,” Cantin said. “Being claustrophobic was kind of an important thing for us. You need to feel the world, to feel the city."

Developers: Disguising flaws as innovative features...

 

[Siel]

2. Good level design
4. Decent stealth mechanics
6. A non retarded story
7. Atmospheric sound effects and art style

All of these are extremely difficult for current AAA developers. The only recent big budget game I can think of that has good-ish level design, is Dishonored, and that's helmed by Harvey Smith.

Well, Dark Souls as well, but it's a very different kind of "good" there.

Pretty sure level design in Dishonored wasn't helmed by H.Smith but Christophe Carrier (who was Level Designer on Arx). Not that it's important.

 

[Mofleaker]

AFAIK Dishonored also had a couple Thief FM authors doing level design, which is fucking awesome.

 

[Great Deceiver]

It's ridiculous how someone can so badly mangle a franchise like this, when they already have a template set out for them. Thief 3 was horribad as well, primarily because of the limitations of consoles. Greedy publishers wanted to mass market the game on the Xbox as well as the PC, so lots of corners had to be cut to make the game fit.

With modern consoles though, there should not have been any problems. All they had to do was make a medium sized town, populate it with NPCs with their own schedules and certain buildings you could enter and do missions in. Add in good AI, good stealth, unique weapons, and that's about it.

Assassin Creed 2 managed something not half bad, with a large city open to the player. And this was years ago.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that you said Thief 3 was horribad and yet Assassin's Creed 2 was not half bad in the same post. Saying Thief 3 sucks doesn't give you KKK, just makes you sound like someone who never played the game for more than 10 minutes.

It wasn't bad - the worst part about it was the city hub and the tiny sectioned-off areas because of console limitations (also no rope arrow but not a huge deal), but the mission design was pretty solid and it's miles beyond anything Ubisoft ever put out not counting the early Splinter Cell games. BTW, the project director on that game was Randy Smith, one of the lead designers of the original Thief and Thief 2.

 

[argan]

Huh, apparently I got an infraction for saying that Cantin has verbal diarrhea. Sensitive much?

 

[argan]

...and another one for calling Thiaf a train wreck...

 

[80Maxwell08]

Well I was waiting for some confirmation before posting this but now that I have it here it goes.

On my twitterfeed someone posted this image of Thiaf with stealth being an unlockable skill but even he didn't know if it was real or not.
https://twitter.com/BrosukeH/status/427987950500986880/photo/1
Now today someone retweeted this picture and it turns out it was completely real.
https://twitter.com/aGrimVale/status/429598186869510144/photo/1

So there you all have it. Thief 4. The first stealth game where stealth needs to be unlocked.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Unlocking stealth in a stealth game.
Clearly stealth here is something completely different to sneaking around, minimizing noise, staying out of sight, and keeping your mouth shut, all of which should not need to be unlocked.
Maybe the stealth upgrade makes Garrett shut up?

 

[Zewp]

"Level 2 - ability to sneak closer to unaware threats"

Upgrades to make stealth easier. There is so much wrong with that being in a Thief game.

 

[skacky]

But it's the same game as the originals, guys! Just with prettier graphics!

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

I'm starting to think that this game is simply a ruse by a giant Thief 3 fan who's trying to make the fanbase remember "the first three games" fondly by comparison.

Or Eidos is planning an HD re-release of the first three.

With updated mechanics and leaderboards.